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T-70 article.

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I wouldn't call anything about 3 very self-sufficient X-wing pilots "synergy"

 

Honestly, don't think we've seen enough to accurately determine wtf the Resistance is actually about. Not enough tech cards spoiled, and while I know people are hype about the A I don't see what it's meant to accomplish that the rebel A couldn't do. Needs more spoilers

Edited by ficklegreendice

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57 minutes ago, CaptainIxidor said:

One thing I'm wondering is if they aren't going to release any new "generic" upgrades until all three factions have their first release, and then they can do one ship from each faction in follow up waves, and introduce generic upgrades to each faction at the same time, similar to how at least some of the waves of Armada worked. Of course, this would mean we would get some very samey ships in the different factions so that might not go as well, and seven ships releasing at once might not be a great look. It also means we'd be waiting until at least wave 4 for new upgrades and that would be frustrating as well, especially in slots where we have too few good options, such as cannons.

 

43 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

Yep, that's what I'm thinking - they'll put out all the basics and then release ships with some similar upgrade slots so the same upgrades are available to all factions simultaneously (just as they've been doing with Legion). The problem here is that the T-70 is the cannon toting ship for the Resistance, so how will you get any new cannons if you don't have to buy out of faction? Does this mean there will be another cannon fighter coming soon? T-85 maybe? Alternatively, maybe they're simply not planning on any new cannons for a while, which isn't a horrible idea, but certainly less fun for all of us loons that want shiny new guns for our B-wings and M3As.

These are interesting talking points, actually. 

Resistance and First Order are in a really weird place now that they're trying to be separate factions with only one or two available ships. 

The T-70's huge number of available slots is going to mean there should be a shedload of upgrade cards in that one little expansion pack.

The T-65 has nine named pilots and three generics, but they're spread across the expansion, the core set and Saw's Renegade's. It has access to proton and ion torpedoes via the core and expansion respectively, and all astros except R3 via either the X-Wing or the Y-Wing and the core, with R3 only being in the core. 

The T-70, meanwhile, seems like it's cramming all nine unique pilots and three generics into just the T-70 expansion. It can access proton torpedoes and a single copy of the generic astros from the (out of faction) core set that's required. But that means in addition to a whopping 12 pilot cards, the expansion should (in theory) contain Adv Torps or Ion Torps, at least one cannon upgrade, at least one missile, at least one tech upgrade, the generic BB astro, the named astros (BB-8+M9-G8+?), the title and the configuration card in order for all of its slots to be usable out of the gate, and to include the Resistance specific upgrades.

This is assuming it gets access to all other missiles via the RZ-2, as there are none in the core set. If the Bomber gets a torp slot, it can get the missing torps from there (core set only has protons). In theory, the T-70 should actually get all the cannon upgrades, as there are again none in the core set and no other Resistance ships are likely to be able to carry them. This is unlike Slave One, where we can assume the rest of the cannon upgrades it's currently missing will trickle back in via the Scyk, the Mist Hunter, IG-2000 etc. Or the TIE Advanced getting its missiles back from the TIE Bomber, TIE Defender etc. 

This is not even counting non-core talent upgrades, which eventually need to be released back to all factions over time as well. 

This is basically a large aces box worth of content in a standard small ship expansion. It's a huge amount of content. 

By my count that's at least 21 cards. That's one more than Imperial Aces, for reference, and these will all be full size rather than using half size upgrades.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the T-70 doesn't come with a modification, talent, missile, torpedo or cannon upgrade. I think it would be a first for an expansion to not come with at least one upgrade of every type it can use, or have access to them via the core set, but I just don't see them putting that many cards in one expansion.

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2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I wouldn't call anything about 3 very self-sufficient X-wing pilots "synergy" ?

Its there, Luke is a tank, he goes in to draw fire from Wedge, wedge is the reliable damage dealer, and thane does cleanup for wedge. They all work in concert.

As for Poe, he works alone. =P

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Honestly, how the T-85 will play out in the future will be fascinating. The T-70 is already looking to be dandy on mid-init but premium on Poe. Will the T-85 be even more expensive or a budget ship for a resistance that lost all of its materiel in a Pyrrhic victory over the course of 3-ish days? Yeah, 3 different x-wing models in the game will be lame especially in comparison that the Prequel era ships will bring to the Original trilogy aesthetic, but the differentiation in the multiple -wing function is intriguing.

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13 minutes ago, Toph said:

While triple T-65 lists can take all high initiative pilots with torpedoes, I would be willing to bet that triple T-70's will only allow for three generics with some toys, or an ace with a pair of bare-bones generics backing him up. 

 

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

given the currently spoiled named pilots, triple T-70 definitely won't be anywhere near triple T-65s

Poe is super dandy and all, but Rebels have Luke, Wedge, AND thane

I probably need to reiterate just to make it super clear, but this is of course massively depending on cost. 

If you can fit Poe and two named T-70 pilots in a list all taking BB-8 and generic BBs, I think you'd be hard pressed to say it's not better than Luke, Wedge and Thane. Just on action economy and repositioning alone. Or, at the very, very least, more suited to a certain playstyle. I guess it's going to be hard to know whether Luke, Wedge and Thane having torp access will make a big enough difference. 

If they're costed high enough that you can only get Poe and two generics in a list, then yeah obviously that problem goes away and you instead have a different list archetype on your hands. 

My theorising is based on the idea that Poe will probably cost around the same as Supernatural Luke, the I5 aces will be under the 60 point mark and the BBs won't be too expensive. Obviously that difference is pretty neatly the cost of torps, so maybe I'm talking **** and torps are the key aspect, but I dunno. 

3 X-Wings with better stats, dials and strong individual abilities with free pre-movement repositioning vs 3 X-Wings with worse dials, stats, strong individual abilities and access to torps. Maybe not as clear cut as I said earlier, but that was really only pessimistic speculation. I still think it's an interesting comparison. 

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4 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Honestly, how the T-85 will play out in the future will be fascinating. The T-70 is already looking to be dandy on mid-init but premium on Poe. Will the T-85 be even more expensive or a budget ship for a resistance that lost all of its materiel in a Pyrrhic victory over the course of 3-ish days? Yeah, 3 different x-wing models in the game will be lame especially in comparison that the Prequel era ships will bring to the Original trilogy aesthetic, but the differentiation in the multiple -wing function is intriguing.

T-85 will likely be a simile to TIE Defender or Scum Agressors in role. Hard hitting "super fighter", can only take a couple in a list due to cost.

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53 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

By my count that's at least 21 cards. That's one more than Imperial Aces, for reference, and these will all be full size rather than using half size upgrades.

The article mentions 12 ship cards and 6 upgrade cards.

  • Black One Title
  • BB-8
  • BB Astromech
  • M9-G8
  • S-foil Configuration
  • Targetting Synchronizer (Credit to GuacCousteau partially revealed in announcement article)
Edited by gamblertuba

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5 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

The article mentions 12 ship cards and 6 upgrade cards.

  • Black One Title
  • BB-8
  • BB Astromech
  • M9-G8
  • S-foil Configuration
  • ???

Ah, good spot, I must have skipped over that.

Based on the spread in the original announcement article, I would imagine the last one is Targeting Synchronizer. It was pictured in the spread for the specific T-70 expansion and there's no way to get Tech upgrades in the game at all right now (outside the conversion kits), so the T-70 and TIE/fo must be coming with them. All the rest have at least one example somewhere, even if it's outside faction. 

As I guessed, that means no cannon or missile. So this will be the first expansion ever to have slots it can't fill from its own upgrades or those in the core. 

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44 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Honestly, how the T-85 will play out in the future will be fascinating. The T-70 is already looking to be dandy on mid-init but premium on Poe. Will the T-85 be even more expensive or a budget ship for a resistance that lost all of its materiel in a Pyrrhic victory over the course of 3-ish days? Yeah, 3 different x-wing models in the game will be lame especially in comparison that the Prequel era ships will bring to the Original trilogy aesthetic, but the differentiation in the multiple -wing function is intriguing.

wouldn't be surprised if it came with boost and barrel roll both native to the chassis. Then, with wings closed, they both have linked to red focus or vice versa, and like the T-70 keeps the 3 attack in the bullseye. Also has 3/2/4/4 stat line.

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37 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

 

I probably need to reiterate just to make it super clear, but this is of course massively depending on cost. 

If you can fit Poe and two named T-70 pilots in a list all taking BB-8 and generic BBs, I think you'd be hard pressed to say it's not better than Luke, Wedge and Thane. Just on action economy and repositioning alone. Or, at the very, very least, more suited to a certain playstyle. I guess it's going to be hard to know whether Luke, Wedge and Thane having torp access will make a big enough difference. 

If they're costed high enough that you can only get Poe and two generics in a list, then yeah obviously that problem goes away and you instead have a different list archetype on your hands. 

My theorising is based on the idea that Poe will probably cost around the same as Supernatural Luke, the I5 aces will be under the 60 point mark and the BBs won't be too expensive. Obviously that difference is pretty neatly the cost of torps, so maybe I'm talking **** and torps are the key aspect, but I dunno. 

3 X-Wings with better stats, dials and strong individual abilities with free pre-movement repositioning vs 3 X-Wings with worse dials, stats, strong individual abilities and access to torps. Maybe not as clear cut as I said earlier, but that was really only pessimistic speculation. I still think it's an interesting comparison. 

I like the comparison, but are we trying to put the T70 into the realm of the jouster when maybe it should be a hardy arc dodger instead? Im definitely seeing Resistance as being the "movement" faction and I think thats a pretty cool distinction. Also makes me wonder what further shenanigans they have the YT1300 do (like how its old title could flip!). I hope costs are kept consistent. They are hopefully learning the lessons from the release and will point cost based on what they are seeing happening to the current rebel lists.

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50 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

The article mentions 12 ship cards and 6 upgrade cards.

  • Black One Title
  • BB-8
  • BB Astromech
  • M9-G8
  • S-foil Configuration
  • Targetting Synchronizer (Credit to GuacCousteau partially revealed in announcement article)

Is it just me but wasn't there another Astromech that allowed you to spend you target Locks on defence rolls? It was in the previous article but I just checked and it seems to have been redacted.

Which might be good as I kept thinking that would be better for the Rebels 

 

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3 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

Is it just me but wasn't there another Astromech that allowed you to spend you target Locks on defence rolls? It was in the previous article but I just checked and it seems to have been redacted.

Which might be good as I kept thinking that would be better for the Rebels 

 

default card

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2 hours ago, player3010587 said:

Honestly, how the T-85 will play out in the future will be fascinating. The T-70 is already looking to be dandy on mid-init but premium on Poe. Will the T-85 be even more expensive or a budget ship for a resistance that lost all of its materiel in a Pyrrhic victory over the course of 3-ish days? Yeah, 3 different x-wing models in the game will be lame especially in comparison that the Prequel era ships will bring to the Original trilogy aesthetic, but the differentiation in the multiple -wing function is intriguing.

Well, lets see the T-70's costing based off looking at the quick build cards, now knowing upgrade costing and 1.0 my guess would be:

Int 6: Poe Dameron - 64 - 74 Points (Lots we don't know here but 4 threat means with those upgrades on him he is around if not north of 100 points, Wedge with a shield upgrade plus all the other stuff on him assuming that BB-8 is like R2 8 points and the Black One title is 3 points we get a Wedge at  86 points. If old school PTL is built in price wise that add another 6 points bringing it up to 92. Assuming a +10 ten at tops of that for his cost with the upgrades should mean that his base cost is somewhere between 64 and 74.  At 74 points that would put him at even with Corran and Luke with Supernatural.)

Int 5: Ello Atsy - 60 - 64 Points (So threat 3 means he should be in the 70s, assuming 75 points removing his upgrades means his cost should be 64 points though comparing that with his 1.0 cost he might end up more reasonably being costed around 60 which still would put him in the 70s with the upgrades for his threat build.)

Int 5: Nien Numb - 58 - 62 Points (We know nothing other than his 1.0 costing which should be fairly accurate considering his late inclusion into the game. But still, looking at the generic we could also guess a good 2-4 point increase too. Of course this is all guess work so *shrug*) 

Int 4: Kare Kun - 54 - 58 Points (We know very little here other than her replacing everyone's favorite canon pilot 'Blue Ace' which from 1.0 would give us 54 looking at the above and following the assumption with Nien Numb we could guess her cost. Not too confident on this one.)

Int 4: Snap Wexly - 56 - 60 Points  (Like Nien Numb we know very little, so best guess is 1.0 costing + 2-4 points.)

Int 3: Joph Seastriker - 58 - 63 Points (Finally, another one we know of to an extent, he too is in the threat 3 so we can guess his range more accurately. Assuming a 70 and 75 cost that would give us either 58 or 63 points, but unless FFG is pricing his ability highly I think his cost would be lower than Snap's.)

Int 3: Jess Pava - 60 - 65 Points (Again we know her cost is in the threat 3 range and her upgrades are worth 10 points so she should be somewhere between 60 and 65 points, considering her rerolls she might be priced higher like Biggs.)

Int 2: Bastian - 53 - 57 Points (Compltely new ability, and no quick build card not much I can guess here besides being lower than Joph by 2-3 points)

Int 1: Tubbs - 50 - 54 Points (Ditto to the above)

Generics:

Int 4: Black Squadron - 55-60 Points (Based off the threat 3 its in the 70s and removing the upgrades at 75 gives us 60 assuming that M9 costs the same as in 1.0 and if it is at 70 points instead of the 75 it gives us 55.)

Int 3: Red Squadron - 53-58 Points (Based off the above generic it should drop 2 points.)

Int 1: Blue Squadron - 49-54 Points (Again dropping it though in this case 4 points.)

The T-70 is definitely on the expensive side of things though I think we would still see the T-85 as the super fighter and will be priced higher generally but lacking the Int 6 pilot and the like maybe its top ace would be the same cost as Poe with BB-8, all the while being less fancy but more consistent. 

1 hour ago, MegaSilver said:

wouldn't be surprised if it came with boost and barrel roll both native to the chassis. Then, with wings closed, they both have linked to red focus or vice versa, and like the T-70 keeps the 3 attack in the bullseye. Also has 3/2/4/4 stat line.

Based off the extra 4 engines in the back and Poe's Black One having the booster on it, him being an former New Republic pilot and the maneuverability trend with the X-Wings I would wouldn't be surprised if its configuration gave it a SLAM action while its S-Foils were closed.  There has been some guesswork on its stats in this thread along with a render of the T-85 if it were in a live action production on page 8. 

 

Edited by Animewarsdude

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1 hour ago, generalchaos34 said:

I like the comparison, but are we trying to put the T70 into the realm of the jouster when maybe it should be a hardy arc dodger instead? Im definitely seeing Resistance as being the "movement" faction and I think thats a pretty cool distinction. Also makes me wonder what further shenanigans they have the YT1300 do (like how its old title could flip!). I hope costs are kept consistent. They are hopefully learning the lessons from the release and will point cost based on what they are seeing happening to the current rebel lists.

The 2.0 TIE Defender is both super jouster AND shenanigan arc dodger, all dependent on how you kit it out (I prefer my advanced sensors thankyouverymuch). I feel the T-70 will work similarly with the addition of droids and tech as opposed to a system. This is where the T85 scares me a little.  The T70 is a solid powerhouse - where do you go from there without getting into the 100 pt range? Maybe it won't be as awesome - maybe it won't even appear, like, ever(?). 

@GuacCousteau: It's funny that I didn't realize how many upgrades had to come with the ships from this first Resistance wave. Of course they couldn't include piles of new stuff here - it's already a bit bloated. I guess we'll be waiting for the shiny new cannons, which is fine.  I got my hopes up without thinking about the logistics of the situation. Still, this does bode well for future releases, probably in the first quarter of 2019. Wave 2 should cover all the "basics". Wave 3 should either provide some new stuff for existing factions or we finally get our grubby mitts on some Clone Wars era pew pew goodness.

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3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

I highly doubt the t-70 will hit defender prices, apart from Poe specifically

I understand the E being conversatively costed thanks to 3 agi and a long-range-scanner ability

T-70 doesn't get those, or native barrel-roll 

Honestly would not be surprised to see TIE phantom prices, and hopefully not much more if you want to get ANY use out of them 

Phantoms are like 3-4 points more expensive than T-65 X-Wings.  I could see these being a hair pricier.

An interesting comparison might be TIE Interceptors compared to Fang Fighters.  A Fang is 10 points more than an Interceptor, which is the 7 points of a Hull Upgrade, plus something from Concordia Faceoff being pretty strong, minus something from linked actions not being as good as Autothrusters.  Let's say 7+4-1=10.  That works for most pilots, but Fenn Rau is an extra 6 points on top of that, since his ability is really strong.  I can see Poe getting a similar treatment over Wedge.  If not 6 extra points over curve, at least 4.

So start with a Shield Upgrade, 6 points.  S-Foils improvements (they don't lose their primary weapon die against Bullseye targets) might be 1 point, and upgrade options another 1 point (added Tech slot, and a versatile Hardpoint over a Torpedo slot).  8 points is my penciled-in guess at the standard price difference.  So that'd be 49 points for the lowest generic, 64-66 for Poe Dameron.  I dunno.  Is that a bit high?  I mean, I don't think it'd be too bad to see them as a straight 6 point increase over T-65s, just from the extra shield.  Extra slots are nice, but you still have to buy the upgrades.  47 generic, 62-64ish for Poe.

I feel like a cool "iconic" squadron would be 4 of the lowest T-70s with generic BB-unit Astromechs. That's something I'm hoping for.  If generic T-70s start at 47, and a BB-droid is 3, that'd fit.

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22 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

 

Phantoms are like 3-4 points more expensive than T-65 X-Wings.  I could see these being a hair pricier.

An interesting comparison might be TIE Interceptors compared to Fang Fighters.  A Fang is 10 points more than an Interceptor, which is the 7 points of a Hull Upgrade, plus something from Concordia Faceoff being pretty strong, minus something from linked actions not being as good as Autothrusters.  Let's say 7+4-1=10.  That works for most pilots, but Fenn Rau is an extra 6 points on top of that, since his ability is really strong.  I can see Poe getting a similar treatment over Wedge.  If not 6 extra points over curve, at least 4.

So start with a Shield Upgrade, 6 points.  S-Foils improvements (they don't lose their primary weapon die against Bullseye targets) might be 1 point, and upgrade options another 1 point (added Tech slot, and a versatile Hardpoint over a Torpedo slot).  8 points is my penciled-in guess at the standard price difference.  So that'd be 49 points for the lowest generic, 64-66 for Poe Dameron.  I dunno.  Is that a bit high?  I mean, I don't think it'd be too bad to see them as a straight 6 point increase over T-65s, just from the extra shield.  Extra slots are nice, but you still have to buy the upgrades.  47 generic, 62-64ish for Poe.

I feel like a cool "iconic" squadron would be 4 of the lowest T-70s with generic BB-unit Astromechs. That's something I'm hoping for.  If generic T-70s start at 47, and a BB-droid is 3, that'd fit.

It might end up a little lower. Definitely seems like somewhere between 46-49 feels right.

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In case no one has mentioned it, a "Threat Level" is roughly equivalent to 25 points.  Eg: Threat 1=25-ish points, Threat 4=100-ish points.  Don't believe me, go pick a quick build (that is legal in the 200pt system) and plug it in to the official Squad Builder.

Wanted to mention this for those that are trying to figure out points costs based off the preview article.

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4 hours ago, Arc170Chris said:

I don't think you were ever suppose to be able to double boost :) but yeah i hope the rebellion gets a similar astro to the ability of a BB. If not... i guess it's a good indicator of the difference between rebellion and resistance. Rebellion is more regen and targeting, and resistance is more about reposition actions. 

Sorry mental lapse. It’s been like a year since I used T-70s. I’m remembering the boost/barrel roll combo since the T-70 could only boost. I guess this new BB is pretty much providing that. Even though it’s limited, the FAA was limited by being out of arc.

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4 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Generic BB astromech makes all the Rebel/Scum options for generic astromechs look like total garbage.

We don't know what it costs yet. 

R2 would be brilliant at 2 or even 4 points. R4 is already great on the right ship, and would be even better at only 1 point etc. 

The only thing that annoys me about it is that it massively negates the need and associated drawback for/with the s-foils. 

T-70s get to double reposition without having to close their s-foils twice in a game. That does seem a little unfair. Not even Super Luke can manage that, not without some pre-planning and closing the s-foils a whole turn before anyway. 

If they're under 6 points, then we can call foul. 

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