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T-70 article.

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I'm confused by their "unique" pilots language. I thought they weren't using that word to describe what is called Limited now? I assumed that it just meant there were 9 pilot cards but it seems others here see it the other way, and I've seen a couple of other mentions of names that are said to already be known are coming in the expansion (Ello Atsy, Jessika Pava). I'd be really frustrated if some pilots weren't in both the conversion kit and the expansion, though.

T70 looks like a lot of fun but I'm worried it will mostly be Poe again. He's not as defensive as his 1st edition but the repositioning is going to be so good on a pretty nice survivable chassis (where most of the double-reposition options we have so far are on a fairly light chassis like a-wing and TIE interceptor). Some of the others are definitely good, though, so maybe I worry for nothing. As I'm not currently planning to buy the Resistance conversion kit, I'm really interested to see if a 2X/1A list will work so much looking forward to an RZ2 preview and seeing the rest of the pilots for this pack. Then again, the Falcon...

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I fully expect Poe to be 10+ points more expensive than the I5 T-70s. It sure seems to me like he will be the most powerful I6 pilot in the game (excluding turrets) and I expect him to be priced accordingly.

The lower-initiative pilots can be priced a lot like a T-65 with a shield upgrade, but from the looks of it Poe should be more expensive than Fenn Rau (who has no access to double reposition), which is why I'm thinking 6-8 points more for generic T-70 pilots over their Rebel counterparts (48ish), but a 20+ point bump for Poe over Wedge.

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18 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

I fully expect Poe to be 10+ points more expensive than the I5 T-70s. It sure seems to me like he will be the most powerful I6 pilot in the game (excluding turrets) and I expect him to be priced accordingly.

The lower-initiative pilots can be priced a lot like a T-65 with a shield upgrade, but from the looks of it Poe should be more expensive than Fenn Rau (who has no access to double reposition), which is why I'm thinking 6-8 points more for generic T-70 pilots over their Rebel counterparts (48ish), but a 20+ point bump for Poe over Wedge.

Even with the points dependency, I do worry a little that in competitive terms, the T-70 is simply going to replace the T-65 (again). 

My guess is that all the named pilots, with the possible exception of Daddy Tubbs, will be priced over 50 points so you can never take 4 of them. I agree with you that the bottom generic will probably be low enough to field 4, but with no room for anything more than an R4 or R3, if only because the improved shield, dial and ship ability just doesn't seem worth a whole 10 points over the BSE. 

The T-65 is in the slightly frustrating spot where it's in a faction that's supposed to help each other, but none of them help each other very well. Biggs doesn't compete with Thane for the points, Garven is too situational, the Renegades are all too niche and self-serving, Jek is too dangerous and Thane is great with Luke and Wedge, but almost useless if you make him the list's ace. They're cheaper, but I don't think they're able to leverage being able to fit more in into being stronger than the sum of their parts. They need Wes back, his ability was a great example of something that could benefit the rest of the list but didn't force you to rely on him. He'd also be frigging amazing alongside Wedge if Wedge is taking Swarm Tactics, which is nice and themey (moreso if Swarm Tactics was called Squad Leader). 

The T-70s look much better at their job - being a solid three ship list with strong, independent abilities. 

Totally agree on Poe. With BB-8 he's almost Supernatural Luke on a better chassis. I kinda feel like his ability is actually almost as good as Luke's. I think 70 points is a good starting point for him. Puts him in line with Vader, who has a similar-ish ability. If BB-8 then costs 5-6 points, he comes out a shade more expensive than Supernatural Luke. That feels about right to me. It's a better effect than SR on a better platform, but limited to only twice per game and with less ability to tank.

That would still give you around 60 points each for two more T-70 aces with a few points spare for a bid or a smattering of further cheap upgrades all round. Feels right to me.

You can run Poe with Jess and Snap, but you won't be stacking astros, talents and tech on all of them this time. 

The question is going to be: are three lean T-70s better than three torp T-65 aces, or four lean T-65s?

At the moment, I'm still thinking yes. Guess we'll just have to see. 

 

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1 hour ago, Okapi said:

Is Tubbs the sequel trilogy Porkins?

Well all we know about Tubbs is that he called out 'they're everywhere' before dying. He couldn't even try to hold it, so obviously Porkins is the better pilot and it seems FFG thinks the same considering Int 4 vs Int 1.

1 hour ago, CaptainIxidor said:

I'm confused by their "unique" pilots language. I thought they weren't using that word to describe what is called Limited now? I assumed that it just meant there were 9 pilot cards but it seems others here see it the other way, and I've seen a couple of other mentions of names that are said to already be known are coming in the expansion (Ello Atsy, Jessika Pava). I'd be really frustrated if some pilots weren't in both the conversion kit and the expansion, though.

T70 looks like a lot of fun but I'm worried it will mostly be Poe again. He's not as defensive as his 1st edition but the repositioning is going to be so good on a pretty nice survivable chassis (where most of the double-reposition options we have so far are on a fairly light chassis like a-wing and TIE interceptor). Some of the others are definitely good, though, so maybe I worry for nothing. As I'm not currently planning to buy the Resistance conversion kit, I'm really interested to see if a 2X/1A list will work so much looking forward to an RZ2 preview and seeing the rest of the pilots for this pack. Then again, the Falcon...

They mention in the article that you get the same pilots for the X-Wing in the conversion kit and the expansion kit, and if you look at the quick build card you can see Jess Pava listed on it and on the older article when this wave was announced you can see Ello Atsy being listed there. It might be a case of FFG trying to put lots of pilots onto the main ships from each faction to hopefully guarantee them being played often. 

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Yes, new Poe is insanely, insanely good. But he traded passive mods for action efficiency. He has to watch out for TIE Swarms and control elements now.

I think he's in the Vader spot of seeing a scrub fly him and think "this is not going to be a fair fight for the fellow" but in the hands of a good player think "Dear God, that's a double reposition, tanky, I6 redline".

He required skillful flight before, but now more so than ever.

Edited by player3010587

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My one gripe about this latest article is it didn't show us any new cannons. I was thinking they'd introduce something new at this stage, but maybe not. You'd think they would have been showcased if new cannons were coming, so my guess is that we'll be waiting for the B-wing re-release, which will hopefully come out at the same time as the Defender.

As far as the T-70 goes, it's a good fighter but seems like it will be pricey. It's apt to cost as much as E-wings on the low end or Defenders on the high end. It seems incredibly versatile - so much so that the RZ2 will be easily outshined but you'll likely need RZ2s as filler ships because T-70s will eat up a lot of points, especially with Poe. I don't mind this at all - it means Resistance lists will be small but highly flexible. They should be able to handle a variety of list types without a hiccup.  

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47 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

My one gripe about this latest article is it didn't show us any new cannons. I was thinking they'd introduce something new at this stage, but maybe not. You'd think they would have been showcased if new cannons were coming, so my guess is that we'll be waiting for the B-wing re-release, which will hopefully come out at the same time as the Defender.

As far as the T-70 goes, it's a good fighter but seems like it will be pricey. It's apt to cost as much as E-wings on the low end or Defenders on the high end. It seems incredibly versatile - so much so that the RZ2 will be easily outshined but you'll likely need RZ2s as filler ships because T-70s will eat up a lot of points, especially with Poe. I don't mind this at all - it means Resistance lists will be small but highly flexible. They should be able to handle a variety of list types without a hiccup.  

I actually thought we'd have more spoiled by now, assumed we would get point lists by second week of November ready for a December release but there's so much we still don't know. Maybe they will do an live video unboxing like with wave 1?

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4 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

I actually thought we'd have more spoiled by now, assumed we would get point lists by second week of November ready for a December release but there's so much we still don't know. Maybe they will do an live video unboxing like with wave 1?

Going off the Spanish site, which has been rather decently accurate for Legion, it seems we will likely get wave 2 for the last week of November. 

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4 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Going off the Spanish site, which has been rather decently accurate for Legion, it seems we will likely get wave 2 for the last week of November. 

That would be rather quick, smart financally, and make a lot of Resistance/FO player very happy. All right before the holidays.

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1 hour ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

My one gripe about this latest article is it didn't show us any new cannons. I was thinking they'd introduce something new at this stage, but maybe not. You'd think they would have been showcased if new cannons were coming, so my guess is that we'll be waiting for the B-wing re-release, which will hopefully come out at the same time as the Defender.

One thing I'm wondering is if they aren't going to release any new "generic" upgrades until all three factions have their first release, and then they can do one ship from each faction in follow up waves, and introduce generic upgrades to each faction at the same time, similar to how at least some of the waves of Armada worked. Of course, this would mean we would get some very samey ships in the different factions so that might not go as well, and seven ships releasing at once might not be a great look. It also means we'd be waiting until at least wave 4 for new upgrades and that would be frustrating as well, especially in slots where we have too few good options, such as cannons.

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I don't get this whole "T70 is a replacement for the T65 again" argument this time around. 

 In lore it actually was a replacement (but thats besides the point!) but its still its own faction with a limited pool of ships to work with. Resistance simply does not have variety of support ships to aide these shiny new T70s, so they are kind of the baseline for this faction. They are also lacking access to the synergy of all the Rebel characters as well. Really comparing the T70 and T65 is like comparing the T65 and the Defender. Two different factions with a whole different feel and options. 

Like they said before though I really hope the Awing gets a chance to find a spot in the Resistance, it should get some love since the rebel one is lacking.

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8 minutes ago, CaptainIxidor said:

One thing I'm wondering is if they aren't going to release any new "generic" upgrades until all three factions have their first release, and then they can do one ship from each faction in follow up waves, and introduce generic upgrades to each faction at the same time, similar to how at least some of the waves of Armada worked. Of course, this would mean we would get some very samey ships in the different factions so that might not go as well, and seven ships releasing at once might not be a great look. It also means we'd be waiting until at least wave 4 for new upgrades and that would be frustrating as well, especially in slots where we have too few good options, such as cannons.

Yep, that's what I'm thinking - they'll put out all the basics and then release ships with some similar upgrade slots so the same upgrades are available to all factions simultaneously (just as they've been doing with Legion). The problem here is that the T-70 is the cannon toting ship for the Resistance, so how will you get any new cannons if you don't have to buy out of faction? Does this mean there will be another cannon fighter coming soon? T-85 maybe? Alternatively, maybe they're simply not planning on any new cannons for a while, which isn't a horrible idea, but certainly less fun for all of us loons that want shiny new guns for our B-wings and M3As.

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15 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Highest Initiative double repositionning doesn't require skill, but a bid.

Well, it takes skill to avoid the killboxes that are being planned ahead of time. Simultaneously, it takes skill to set up the kill box that eliminates the ace. Please, if this game were all about bids, then a match between 2 similarly high-skilled player would boil down to initiative. And by clever positioning of netting arcs, blocking, and area denial, we know that that is obviously not the case.

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14 hours ago, Wraithdt said:

Yes, it was. I got the new pilots and cards from the T-65 and Y-wing boosters in my Rebel conversion kits. Looks like you have missing components my friend.

 

15 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

In which respect? All the wave 1 pilots and upgrades were in the conversion kits. 

Afterburners from the Fang Fighter expansion was not in the Scum conversion kit. But it was in the core set. so he's pointing out the one card out of like 500.

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25 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Please, if this game were all about bids, then a match between 2 similarly high-skilled player would boil down to initiative.

Just like 1.0 before TLT, you mean?
Ok, those arc-dodgers had stacked defenses also; but those T70 have 7 health instead.

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I highly doubt the t-70 will hit defender prices, apart from Poe specifically

I understand the E being conversatively costed thanks to 3 agi and a long-range-scanner ability

T-70 doesn't get those, or native barrel-roll 

Honestly would not be surprised to see TIE phantom prices, and hopefully not much more if you want to get ANY use out of them 

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12 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Just like 1.0 before TLT, you mean?
Ok, those arc-dodgers had stacked defenses also; but those T70 have 7 health instead.

True, but when one player's Soontir can block his opponent's Soontir so that his Juke carriers can come at either side and light him up, his stealth, Soontir focus, and lone wolf don't scare anyone anymore. Poe has only 2 dice defense. The sky is not falling. Heck, even without a blocker, people can position so that the higher init ship is on the run. And if Poe spends all his actions to dodge all but one of his opponent's arcs, the opponent is perfectly fine. He doesn't have defensive tokens. That is unless his support ship is still alive coordinating, which case he's a dumb **** for not pursuing the target that makes itself easy to kill so that the ace is harder to kill. "Oh, but he has PTL", yeah, still no tokens for a double repo, as the payment is stress, unless he is quickly burning up his use of BB8 for some fancy tricks, which will cost not only points, but also the okayness of the T70's blue.

Seriously, Spanish nationals were won by Boba, Palob, and 4-Lom. None of these guys are init 6. Yet, to get to that spot, the winner had to plow through countless init 6. High-health and medium defense or low health and high defense don't make a difference. He played consistently to make it to the end. The same could be said of the runner up of Coruscant, the winner of the Gold Squad Classic, and the runner up of Crossroads Classic. Something had to be the force in defeating the wave after wave of the double repo-shenanigans of Soontir and Darth.

Also TLT never needed an arc to point. Double-repo aces do. Don't try to fallaciously argue with a mechanic that no longer exists.

Edited by player3010587

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15 hours ago, dadocollin said:

I wonder if the Flight-Assist Astromech will be coming back in 2.0 or if the generic BB is (sort of) filling that void. I’ll miss the double boost!

I don't think you were ever suppose to be able to double boost :) but yeah i hope the rebellion gets a similar astro to the ability of a BB. If not... i guess it's a good indicator of the difference between rebellion and resistance. Rebellion is more regen and targeting, and resistance is more about reposition actions. 

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39 minutes ago, generalchaos34 said:

I don't get this whole "T70 is a replacement for the T65 again" argument this time around. 

 In lore it actually was a replacement (but thats besides the point!) but its still its own faction with a limited pool of ships to work with. Resistance simply does not have variety of support ships to aide these shiny new T70s, so they are kind of the baseline for this faction. They are also lacking access to the synergy of all the Rebel characters as well. Really comparing the T70 and T65 is like comparing the T65 and the Defender. Two different factions with a whole different feel and options. 

Like they said before though I really hope the Awing gets a chance to find a spot in the Resistance, it should get some love since the rebel one is lacking.

Which is all fine and good if T-65s were being uses in mixed lists with lots of intricate synergy and support, but for the most part they're not. 

Outside of the odd XXYY or XXXU list or whatever, the strongest use of the T-65 so far is things like triple torp aces, or XXXX. Unless they're costed on careful lines, triple T-70 looks like it's probably going to better than triple T-65 or XXXX. 

If you want to fly an X-Wing list, the T-70 looks (at the moment) like it's probably going to give you more bang for your buck than the T-65 version. 

Obviously it's not going to wipe the T-65 off the board completely, not while Resistance is still such an incomplete faction. But Rebels, I don't believe, have yet found many decent lists that include the X-Wing as part of a mixed setup. 

For the record, I don't want anything I'm saying here to sound too certain. There's still a bunch of stuff I'm yet to fly in 2e, and I still don't believe a proper meta has shaken itself out yet. There's a lot of testing still to be done around proton torpedoes, and I don't know yet if the BSE, for example, has a place as a cheapish torp carrier that's decent with some sort of lock support. 

All I'm saying is that for the moment the only really decent T-65 lists I've seen are variations on the Luke/Wedge/Thane theme, and with what we've seen so far I think the T-70 is going to do that specific archetype better.

Also this,

50 minutes ago, generalchaos34 said:

Really comparing the T70 and T65 is like comparing the T65 and the Defender.

is absolute hyperbole. The T-65 and T-70 are not going to be anywhere near that different. They essentially have the same action bar, dial, configuration options and statline with only minor variations (barrel roll and boost swapped, one extra blue, an extra chance to keep 3 dice attacks, an extra shield). 

They're not even as different as the T-65 and the E-Wing, because the E-Wing has extra agility, the second best dial in the game (arguably the best with R4) and the sensor slot, among other key differences.

This is why, points depending, the T-70 and T-65 XXX lists are so comparable. Its three similar ships making up a similar list archetype. The big difference will be the T-65 XXX tends to go for torp alphas, while the T-70 will probably be looking for slightly more maneuverability and survivability in lieu of being able to afford torps all round. 

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12 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Unless they're costed on careful lines, triple T-70 looks like it's probably going to better than triple T-65

While triple T-65 lists can take all high initiative pilots with torpedoes, I would be willing to bet that triple T-70's will only allow for three generics with some toys, or an ace with a pair of bare-bones generics backing him up. 

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1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

given the currently spoiled named pilots, triple T-70 definitely won't be anywhere near triple T-65s

Poe is super dandy and all, but Rebels have Luke, Wedge, AND thane

and thats why rebels are all about synergy. I dont really see that in the resistance as a faction, they feel more like scrappy survivors with a lot of mobility.  Time will tell if they add any but I hope they continue on the trend make them self reliant ships that are extremely mobile. 

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