Darth Vader once flew a TIE/D....

[Hoarder of Garlic Bread 1,725]

Just for the lols, let's guess the price. The baseline of the TIE/D is 31pt more expensive than the TIE Advanced X1, and yes, though the chassis of the Defender likes Supernatural more than the Advanced, they are also fine with moving first, so we won't play with chassis baseline. So let's slap 31pt to Vader's current cost into a whopping and arbitrary 101pt. Vader's ability in a Defender has a lot more mileage than the Advanced, and he can be untouchable with 3 force and a token stack, so let's bump it into a arbitrary and hypothetical 113. Throw on the inevitable Supernatural, and he is now a base of 125 pt--before the system slot or other goodies. He is an insane monster that doesn't belong in the game, but also astronomically expensive (though his ace grandson says that that can be a feature when you are hard to even half-kill). Would you consider flying him?

[Cuz05 2,014]

I'd fly him with Supernatural, Prockets, FCS, HLC and a 61pt bid. 

Watch everything burn.

[Maui. 2,420]

Only way to balance Vader in a Defender is to price him at 201 points.

[iwantbatteries 14]

I think as long as you couldn't equip supernatural, you are fine, so 189 points

[Biophysical 15,032]

4 minutes ago, iwantbatteries said:

I think as long as you couldn't equip supernatural, you are fine, so 189 points

Advanced Sensors still exists.  It's still not okay.

[iwantbatteries 14]

you can already put advanced sensors on rexler and with a big bid it's only different against like 6 pilots. Vader couldn't chain actions off of it. And at this price point he would only have a couple point bid.

Edited October 23, 2018 by iwantbatteries

[Cgriffith 769]

Vader (101) + Juke (4) 

Brath (84) + Juke (4) 

(193) 

Seems legit...

[Bad Idea Comics 556]

You may as well put the Avenger in the game.  Not the fighter, the STAR DESTROYER.

[Hoarder of Garlic Bread 1,725]

5 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

Vader (101) + Juke (4) 

Brath (84) + Juke (4) 

(193) 

Seems legit...

But Vader, a force user, has no access to the Talent slot. This, combined with Kylo's obligatory nerf as well as Blackout's significant buff, will lead to interesting decisions: force or talent? For me, porque no los dos? and fill whatever space the two of them leave with either a ship or a bid.

[Animewarsdude 3,481]

22 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I'd fly him with Supernatural, Prockets, FCS, HLC and a 61pt bid. 

Watch everything burn.

Have to fly someone with him, lists are 2 ship minimum. So you might as well just have an 'Orientation Day' list with Vader fully loaded up, and an Academy Pilot with a 38 point bid. 

5 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

You may as well put the Avenger in the game.  Not the fighter, the STAR DESTROYER.

Step 1: Buy an Armada Star Destroyer.

Step 2: Say that it is to scale but REALLY far away.

Step 3: Throw 3 buckets of dice per each attack. 

Step 4: Pray there aren't any suicidal A-Wings. 

[FriendofYoda 294]

There should never, ever be an init 6 Defender. They'd have to price it out of play and then - why not release a fun init 4/5 that could be usable. Ryad with AS is great fun but broken against things that move before her. Thus init 4 balances it out, along with price.

[Suriel 619]

32 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I'd fly him with Supernatural, Prockets, FCS, HLC and a 61pt bid. 

Watch everything burn.

This needs to be added to Fly Casual simulator. @Sandrem, please, please make it happen.

[Vineheart01 6,401]

Vader in a defender would never be balanced. Either way too expensive to bother or OP as balls.

The Defender is priced fairly atm purely because it lacks multi-action economy (talking doublemods or repositioning + mods, the evade is moot for this point) and is not Init6.

If they gave it access to multiple actions that wasnt just the Evade action AND init6, it would be disgustingly strong.

[BDrafty 456]

It seems like a well flown sloan swarm would sort of Auto-win vs a 7 hit point single ship list that depends upon amazing action economy. 

[Jehan Menasis 1,560]

35 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

 He is an insane monster that doesn't belong in the game, but also astronomically expensive (though his ace grandson says that that can be a feature when you are hard to even half-kill). Would you consider flying him?

Honestly, I don't see a difference between that 'monster Vader' and a fat large based ship, full of upgrades and crew.

In reality, it would be a meager 3 dice attack per round that costs you 120+ more points… 4 dice if you equip it with heavy cannon AND get bullseyes. And equally susceptible to any of the current shenanigans (token stripping, bombs, ordnance...)

Yeah, Luke gunner was about to destroy the game even before its birth, blah blah blah… Guess what, at the end of the day, price matters.

 

 

[Biophysical 15,032]

1 hour ago, iwantbatteries said:

you can already put advanced sensors on rexler and with a big bid it's only different against like 6 pilots. Vader couldn't chain actions off of it. And at this price point he would only have a couple point bid.

I5 pilots are shaping up to be the most important ones in the early stages of 2.0.  Getting advantage on them is huge. 

[iwantbatteries 14]

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

I5 pilots are shaping up to be the most important ones in the early stages of 2.0.  Getting advantage on them is huge. 

Sure, but how AS vader that functionally different than AS rexlar with a 30+ point bid? Sure he has some improvements, but without supernatural, I don't think vader can solo the whole meta, some lists (2 ship low PS builds) maybe, but rexlar could likely do 98% of what a 189 pt vader TIE/D could do.

[HolySorcerer 4,102]

Vader in a Defender would be quite strong, but there is nothing inherently broken about him. He’d be tanky as ****, but you’re still spending more than half of your points on one three dice gun. 

Still, seeing what they did to the Tax1 out of fear of Vader, I don’t think we’ll ever be lucky enough to get Vader in a Defender. 

[Cuz05 2,014]

Having flown AS Defenders quite a bit now, you'd be lucky to catch Vader in even half your arcs and need a second dose of luck to hurt him with half of those. 1 3 dice attack might not be much but it's enough to win a damage race against things that struggle to even shoot at you.

Open to being wrong but either way, I'd love to try it. PROXY TIME!

[wurms 4,687]

2 hours ago, player3010587 said:

Just for the lols

[Cgriffith 769]

2 hours ago, player3010587 said:

But Vader, a force user, has no access to the Talent slot. This, combined with Kylo's obligatory nerf as well as Blackout's significant buff, will lead to interesting decisions: force or talent? For me, porque no los dos? and fill whatever space the two of them leave with either a ship or a bid.

What they could do is create a new configuation card for Vader (in a TIE/D) where it can be equipped but you lose the force upgrade slot, gaining a talent slot; and actually make it a decision. 

[theBitterFig 6,663]

Sabine Wren also flew a TIE Defender.  I think she'd be only slightly less broken.

[Biophysical 15,032]

2 hours ago, iwantbatteries said:

Sure, but how AS vader that functionally different than AS rexlar with a 30+ point bid? Sure he has some improvements, but without supernatural, I don't think vader can solo the whole meta, some lists (2 ship low PS builds) maybe, but rexlar could likely do 98% of what a 189 pt vader TIE/D could do.

Uhhh.  Multiple action (aka multiple reposition) Defender at I6 is not functionally different than single action I5?  Vader could make a 3 bank to get the free evade, reposition to line up an HLC bullseye, then use 2 Force to get Focus/TL and still have a Force left.  That's way, way different than Rexler.

[Cuz05 2,014]

Ok, has everyone moved? Yes?.

Right. Boost into a 4k for 3 very different end points, get the evade, then roll and grab a focus. Or a lock and focus for serious Prockets.

Oh wait, that one has less health. Ok then. Roll then boost into 4k instead, then Prockets go up his ***.....

Who shall we kill next....

Oh hey, I still have a force token and this evade here, anyone wanna shoot at me?

I mean, I know I put that rock in the way and came all the way out to R3 over here but you may as well roll....

[Cgriffith 769]

41 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Uhhh.  Multiple action (aka multiple reposition) Defender at I6 is not functionally different than single action I5?  Vader could make a 3 bank to get the free evade, reposition to line up an HLC bullseye, then use 2 Force to get Focus/TL and still have a Force left.  That's way, way different than Rexler.

I definitely want Vader in a Defender now.