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Role of Player Choice - Important Restricted List Announcement

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On 10/24/2018 at 11:24 PM, Victarion13 said:

Also, I think Unicorn will likely choose Water role this time, losing Void (of course).

That would be the smart choice imo. Taking fight on with a crab splash is very tempting. Reprieve and rebuild also pair well with Unicorn cards.

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5 hours ago, Hordeoverseer said:

I feel that Keeper of Water is definitely going to be heavily contested. Apparently Lion, Unicorn and Crab have their eyes on it.

I can understand that, although I could see the Crab going with Seeker of Water, for the Pathfinder Blade and unbowing.

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1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I can understand that, although I could see the Crab going with Seeker of Water, for the Pathfinder Blade and unbowing.

While Pathfinder's Blade is on the Restricted List, Crab won't care much about a Seeker role.  Currently Crab have Seeker of Earth and getting double Seeker role will be crippling.

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Especially when Keeper Initiates are pretty good with Witch Hunter and their box (not that the box is great but using it on 3 Initiates on defense is pretty good). Double down on Seeker in Crab would be crippling in options. 

Also, I used to be for opening up the roles but I'm starting to see that the role power level are really starting to become an issue here. Void is just way too good and Elemental Cycle has failed to close the gap on some roles. Nobody is going to pick Earth because of Specialize Defenses or the Lion +3 POL writ. With FoF on RL soon, that just surges the value of Void upwards and everything becomes secondary. I agree FoF was a problem but this just furthers the role inequity.

I suspect (baseless speculation) the designers thought that provinces with a low strength and break effects were a bad thing. Upholding Authority would have been a big boost to earth but having it at 5 strength is actually lousy. 

Edited by Hordeoverseer

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I may be crazy (which I am in LCG terms), but I think Unicorn would be okay with Seeker of Water if they cannot get Keeper of Water. While Talisman of the Sun is awesome and powerful on the defense, Kami Unleashed + Chasing the Sun are not bad with the ability move people into a Conflict (allowing the Unicorn player to target key Provinces). Endless Plains + Seeker of Water also is a pretty good tempo boost. Unicorn are also one of the few who can pull of Riot in the Streets.

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I wouldn't mind a seeker role for Unicorn, but not for chasing the sun.  I just don't like that card. The extra fate from seeker would allow for a fate advantage kind of build but I wouldn't want to run 2 water provinces right now.  

Seeker of anything else would be fine.

But really all I want is to be able to run all the various 'support of' roles.  So I'm pretty jazzed about the accelerated clan pack release schedule for this year.

If I can't have my full on Shadowlands deck then that would be the next best thing.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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7 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I wouldn't mind a seeker role for Unicorn, but not for chasing the sun.  I just don't like that card. The extra fate from seeker would allow for a fate advantage kind of build but I wouldn't want to run 2 water provinces right now.  

Seeker of anything else would be fine.

But really all I want is to be able to run all the various 'support of' roles.  So I'm pretty jazzed about the accelerated clan pack release schedule for this year.

If I can't have my full on Shadowlands deck then that would be the next best thing.

Two water province can be good, and maybe will get better with some clan pack (our clan pack :D?).  Anyway with water you can do good combo for bow other character (or send them home). I am thinking about Crane (Admit defeat).

Chasing the sun is an event, sigh... That's my problem with the card...

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14 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I wouldn't mind a seeker role for Unicorn, but not for chasing the sun.  I just don't like that card....

Let me tell you a little story about Chasing the Sun, and why I absolutely want to run it in a deck.

Turn 1, I smashed one province to bits. Turn 2, first conflict, I'd taken another one. Second conflict, I go for the third, hoping to go hot and heavy at his Stronghold next turn. And what do I run face-first into?  Public motherloving Forum. Had I the ability to say, "Oops, never mind, I actually attack over here instead." I would've won that game, hands down. But instead, because some dude was making a speech at a Rokugani town hall meeting, it provided him the tempo boost to snorch victory from my overconfident little hands.

Talisman of the Sun is great, no doubt. I love the crap out of it. Being able to choose which horrible fate my opponent runs into is absolutely amusing. But... being able to work around their horrible fates has its own advantages, especially if you're rocking a hyper-agro deck, like Newnicorn seems to be doing.

Edited by twinstarbmc

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It is even better when their province has an action rather than an action, and you attacked with a child of the plains to eject out of that province. It would be nice to get out of Shameful when you can.

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Unless Chasing the Sun had a built in effect like Pathfinder's Blade, I don't think it'll see play. It's like giving your opponent the advantage of running into two provinces in one attack. Maybe if Chasing the Sun worked like old school cavalry...but that would be so non-interactive. 

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1 hour ago, Hordeoverseer said:

Unless Chasing the Sun had a built in effect like Pathfinder's Blade, I don't think it'll see play. It's like giving your opponent the advantage of running into two provinces in one attack. Maybe if Chasing the Sun worked like old school cavalry...but that would be so non-interactive. 

Depends, scouting too provinces with a poke where you don't mean to break is very strong.  Also acts as an eject if you run into a bad on break effect province.

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Even though it is going on the Restricted List, not breaking Feast or Famine is good. Not breaking Upholding Authority is good. Knowing that these are coming allows you to adapt your gameplay strategy accordingly, and can allow you to get in a bad break when you are prepared for it. Also, Pathfinder's Blade is practically the guaranteed RL card for Unicorn in this case.

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I would much rather run cards like Iuchi Wayfinder and Peasant's Advice that allow me to scout the provinces ahead of time, then rely on having Chasing the Sun at the right time.

I find it better to not put myself in bad situations then to include cards that have very little upside beyond the extremely narrow situation they they are good in.

If Unicorn didn't have access to the best province scouting card in the game, then CtS might be a decent option but IMO it's not worth a slot in the deck and certainly not worth trading keeper for seeker.

Additional fate and Kami Unleashed are the only things that I would find appealing about a seeker role for Unicorn at this time.  Certainly that will change as we get more cards but CtS is not good enough to entice me to pick seeker.

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17 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I would much rather run cards like Iuchi Wayfinder and Peasant's Advice that allow me to scout the provinces ahead of time, then rely on having Chasing the Sun at the right time.

I find it better to not put myself in bad situations then to include cards that have very little upside beyond the extremely narrow situation they they are good in.

If Unicorn didn't have access to the best province scouting card in the game, then CtS might be a decent option but IMO it's not worth a slot in the deck and certainly not worth trading keeper for seeker.

Additional fate and Kami Unleashed are the only things that I would find appealing about a seeker role for Unicorn at this time.  Certainly that will change as we get more cards but CtS is not good enough to entice me to pick seeker.

That's all well and good, but you can't just rely on always having a Wayfinder in your hand exactly when you need one. And I'm not going to wait on the off chance I might draw one next turn. You can't always rely on having everything you want when you want it. Sometimes, you have no choice to to be reactive, as opposed to proactive.

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1 hour ago, twinstarbmc said:

That's all well and good, but you can't just rely on always having a Wayfinder in your hand exactly when you need one. And I'm not going to wait on the off chance I might draw one next turn. You can't always rely on having everything you want when you want it. Sometimes, you have no choice to to be reactive, as opposed to proactive.

You cannot rely on having CtS at the right time either, so it comes down to what card effects are better.

Wayfinder and Peasant's Advice are superior to CtS as they do other things besides just allowing you to bail out on a bad province.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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2 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

You cannot rely on having CtS at the right time either, so it comes down to what card effects are better.

Wayfinder and Peasant's Advice are superior to CtS as the do other things besides allowing you to bail out on a bad province.

Wayfinder's great, yes. but Peasant's Advice dishonors your own dude, and I keep playing against a dedicated Scorpion. Makes it a less-than-appealing choice for me. 

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15 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Wayfinder's great, yes. but Peasant's Advice dishonors your own dude, and I keep playing against a dedicated Scorpion. Makes it a less-than-appealing choice for me. 

Moving between two of any Scorpion's current back row is not likely going to be good either.

I feel like you're falling into a trap: where playing PA could be bad in a particular match up and you were able to get the stars to align with a very narrow card and that has inflated CtS value for you.

YMMV but I would recommend caution.

In the worst case you can just choose not to play a card of you're worried about dishonor.  I haven't had any problems with PA and Scorpion since it's release, but, I generally play Crab splash and Rebuild my Yurts to protect my honor in that match up, of need be.

Vs the field I would much rather play a card that can filter away problem dynasty cards, including holdings, and gives me province knowledge than a card that moves me into another province (sometimes blindly) in a game where people are generally putting down the strongest province row they can play.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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6 hours ago, twinstarbmc said:

That's all well and good, but you can't just rely on always having a Wayfinder in your hand exactly when you need one. And I'm not going to wait on the off chance I might draw one next turn. You can't always rely on having everything you want when you want it. Sometimes, you have no choice to to be reactive, as opposed to proactive.

We also have Border Fortress, still not always available like all other cards.

If chasing the sun was an attachment, maybe with a +1 and +1, I think it would be better. But it is an event, and I am already full of event: for me it is a good card, but I can see why people would not use it too often

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I would include 1 or 2 of Chasing the Sun in a Unicorn Seeker deck. There are enough Province effects in the game which trigger on "When an Attack is declared here" as well as the ability to feint / snipe an attack at Magistrate Station or other key provinces as to make it worth packing 1 or 2 of. Could swing a game.

I would absolutely only pack it with a Pathfinder's Blade, however. 

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Sorry Suds ;)

I'm still taking Peasant's Advice over CtS.

Until the number of provinces with "when an attack is declared here" effects is deep enough for CtS to provide me something PA doesn't, I'm not giving up the utility value of PA.....

And no there isn't room for both. Lol

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