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Role of Player Choice - Important Restricted List Announcement

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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/10/22/the-role-of-player-choice/

Relevant quote:

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Feast or Famine
With the new selection process in mind, Feast or Famine (Into the Forbidden City, 41) will be added to the restricted list shortly after the 2018 Winter Court World Championship. This neutral card would likely skew the votes of every clan toward a Fire role. Restricting the province makes it less appealing and encourages the clans to pursue their own, slightly different priorities during the Elemental Championship voting process.

 

Edited by sndwurks

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Yup, I'm waiting for the massive screams from the Uni's who selected it as their Gencon choice assuming they would maintain access for the bulk of the first leg of the Elemental Championships.

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6 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Yup, I'm waiting for the massive screams from the Uni's who selected it as their Gencon choice assuming they would maintain access for the bulk of the first leg of the Elemental Championships.

Unicorn players don't really whine all that much from what I have seen.

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As someone who plays primarily Unicorn, I just going to put out there that Feast or Famine + Unleash the Djinn is still better than Charge! or anything else really on the Restricted List.

Now, if Cavalry Reserves or Unleash the Djinn also winds up on the Restricted List... yeah, that's just a punch in the gut for Unicorn.

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The role vote process seems really stupid. If 40% of people want Keeper of Water, and 30% each want Seeker of Fire or Seeker of Void, the clan end up with Seeker of Water which no one wanted?

Roles continue to be a huge Albatros around the neck of this game.

Edited by HamHamJ2

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45 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

As someone who plays primarily Unicorn, I just going to put out there that Feast or Famine + Unleash the Djinn is still better than Charge! or anything else really on the Restricted List.

Now, if Cavalry Reserves or Unleash the Djinn also winds up on the Restricted List... yeah, that's just a punch in the gut for Unicorn.

I could see that, but, I'd still take Charge over FoF.

Ultimately I dont't think the elemental role matters all that much for Unicorn.  UtD is a neat trick vs tower decks, but, sometimes difficult to manage the honor loss.  While FoF is indeed good enough to land on the RL, I don't think I would want a good chunk of my deck contents known by my opponent's after flipping FoF.  I think it's one of those cards that just by it being a possible selection the opponent should at least consider and likely alters the first few attacks until they know what your province line up is, or are in a position where they won't be impacted by the effects.  It's like a better Endless Plains.  You run Keeper of Fire and your opponent has to respect FoF could be your RL pick as long as you don't tip your hand with another restricted card before it's revealed.  Honoring and Dishonoring is still good enough of an effect.

In light of this news, Keeper of  Water role might be best for Unicorn.  If I were to pick selfishly, I'd take Keeper of Air because is helps my Unicorn/Phoenix honor deck, but, personally I don't think it matters too much.  If all the clan packs were out, I doubt I'd be running anything besides a "support of" role with Unicorn.

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Was Charge + FoF Lion so broken? No, it is Restoration of Balance + FoF that is a murderer's row. Putting FoF on the RL post worlds once Dragon lose SoF is closing the gate after the horse has bolted and won the Kentucky Derby. Better yet, don't print FoF but that horse too has already bolted and won the Grand National.

Edited by DarkHorse

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FoF is kinda playable and there are narrow counter-play interactions. As least the province has to be broken for it to work. Restoration of the Balance requires you to play all of your attachments or lose a bunch of cards in your hand, which not all Clans can do. I kind of think FoF wasn't the main culprit here and the horse analogy is apt.

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Speaking of horses, don't forget the interaction with Talisman of the Sun. Want to go to another province? Come back to FoF! Dragon can't do it (the Talisman is Keeper only) and Lion has to splash Unicorn to do it. Unicorn gets it in-clan and will still be Keeper of Fire after Worlds.

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2 minutes ago, Hordeoverseer said:

FoF is kinda playable and there are narrow counter-play interactions. As least the province has to be broken for it to work. Restoration of the Balance requires you to play all of your attachments or lose a bunch of cards in your hand, which not all Clans can do. I kind of think FoF wasn't the main culprit here and the horse analogy is apt.

Resto/FoF was definitely the problem pairing; but only because the other clan that had the option to run it for most of the kotei season was Lion, who were struggling with poor design choices and a weakened splash option as they were kind of hamstrung into running Dragon or bust since we needed the attachment hate to make our core themes work, and so were left out from running the Unicorn Talisman combo that could make FoF reliable enough for us to run.  I'd be curious to see how much better a Lion deck on FoF would be if we had Hand to hand for attachment hate and opening up the Unicorn Splash for Talisman's, Wayfinder and Spyglass. 

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I didn't understand well how it will works the role choice... Can someone explain to me it in simple words? Because I am stupid I prefer simple words (lol).

Also, for how long every clan will keep their role? 1 year? 6 months? less? And how many role (so how many deck) can we have? Like now 2? Or will be it 3?

 

Finally as Unicorn, I don't care too much for FoF: strong combo with Talisman, and for sure a good card, but you have many counter to it anyway.

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10 minutes ago, Victarion13 said:

I didn't understand well how it will works the role choice... Can someone explain to me it in simple words? Because I am stupid I prefer simple words (lol).

Feast or Famine is Fire Role only and pretty much the only reason anyone outside of Unicorn would pick a Fire Role as far as deck building options are concerned.

10 minutes ago, Victarion13 said:

Also, for how long every clan will keep their role? 1 year? 6 months? less? And how many role (so how many deck) can we have? Like now 2? Or will be it 3?

Each role will last for 8 months. Each Clan will have access to two at a time. The Role they've had for longer will rotate out every 4 months.

16 minutes ago, Victarion13 said:

Finally as Unicorn, I don't care too much for FoF: strong combo with Talisman, and for sure a good card, but you have many counter to it anyway.

Not really, unless they break it on a turn where you have no characters with no fate (which you should because you know you have it) or they have no characters with fate (which is bad board state) or they're running Pathfinder's Blade (unlikely) or they're Crane and have Cautious Scout (so 1 out of 7).

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I think FoF on RL is interesting for unicorn.. With actual fire provinces and fire-locked cards being not great choices, theres a chance no other clan picks the fire role at worlds.. In this scenario uni can always abuse the 2 fate char 1st turn and ther opponents will have to play around FoF until another restricted card is shown.

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9 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

and ther opponents will have to play around FoF until another restricted card is shown.

Or until they see another Fire province (I doubt the top Unicorn will choose Seeker of Fire at Worlds).

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7 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Or until they see another Fire province (I doubt the top Unicorn will choose Seeker of Fire at Worlds).

But that's why you put your extra fire province under box if not playing FoF, Keep the guessing game alive as long as possible.

Honestly Unicorn on Keeper of Fire will be a horrible row to attack into as they can pack both Endless Plains and Feast as two kill provinces.  With access to Talisman you can try to ensure that opponents hit Feast on your Terms (so when it will do the most damage) and guarantee that they won't bypass it.  Losing charge will hurt, but you still have Cav Reserves as a back up so its not all bad.

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6 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

But that's why you put your extra fire province under box if not playing FoF, Keep the guessing game alive as long as possible.

Honestly Unicorn on Keeper of Fire will be a horrible row to attack into as they can pack both Endless Plains and Feast as two kill provinces.  With access to Talisman you can try to ensure that opponents hit Feast on your Terms (so when it will do the most damage) and guarantee that they won't bypass it.  Losing charge will hurt, but you still have Cav Reserves as a back up so its not all bad.

Keeping the guessing alive is a good idea, but the other possible Fire provinces aren't great under the box.

Endless Plains is just too conditional and I haven't seen one in a while (I play Unicorn). Cavalry reserves is good, but it's a significant investment and can be anticipated; 1-cost Charge!, not so much.

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8 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Keeping the guessing alive is a good idea, but the other possible Fire provinces aren't great under the box.

Endless Plains is just too conditional and I haven't seen one in a while (I play Unicorn). Cavalry reserves is good, but it's a significant investment and can be anticipated; 1-cost Charge!, not so much.

Cavalry Reserves can be anticipated, but at the same time so can charge and most opponents worth their salt will hold their cancels for either anyway so its a matter of drawing them out with your other tempting targets first.  As to what goes under the box Night Raid or Meditations aren't the worst ideas as they will hopefully get either a few cards or fate of a character which may enable other effects.  And you could always just run Abandoning Honor for a 5 strength province.  Not ideal, but it is an option.

And the double suicide provinces could be worth it as you force your opponent to be careful with their scouting.

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10 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Double suicide provinces is fine. But with something else than Endless Plains.

Come on make the row of hate, Uphoding, FoF, Endless and Shameful.  They'll break easily but its almost as painful to break as a Scorpion row.

 

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Endless Plains doesn't cause enough pain. If there is a single expendable character attacking it, its ability is useless and you have to defend it (which is not easy because it's ridiculously weak).

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Just now, Khudzlin said:

Endless Plains doesn't cause enough pain. If there is a single expendable character attacking it, its ability is useless and you have to defend it (which is not easy because it's ridiculously weak).

It makes pokes (outside of Crane with scouts) so much more dangerous as you may lose the province but you are denying the ring to an opponent if they didn't send multiple bodies or spend resources to drop a conflict character in.  The point is to force them to assign extra units making you outnumbering them that much easier on your retaliation attacks.

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23 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Feast or Famine is Fire Role only and pretty much the only reason anyone outside of Unicorn would pick a Fire Role as far as deck building options are concerned.

I didn't mean it, I mean the rule for determinate the role at the worlds and so on... How it works with the vote from players and Hanamoto?

Thanks for answer the other question^-^

Also, I think Unicorn will likely choose Water role this time, losing Void (of course).

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