Full release striking as wind

[Moderately 7]

Sorry, don't have the rulebook in front of me but

 

Striking as wind was changed to allow you to spend opportunity to reserve one dice per opportunity and use their result in place of an equal number/type of dice next turn.

 

It is unclear if the reserved dice can also be used during the initial roll. My instinct is that you can't keep and reserve the same die given the flavor text of setting up for a future opportunity, but if that is the case, then this ability seems extremely weak as you'd be trading an opportunity and a future dice (so -2 dice) to delay a current dice until next turn (when the fast combat promotes immediate effects)

 

If you can use the dice you reserve it's at least usable as you can repeat exploding/success+opportunity to trade one opportunity and a dice next turn for a dice worth on average two in its place. Seems a bit situational with short combat limiting abilities that do nothing the turn you use them, but in longer combat it can set up a few crits or points of damage which is nice.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Moderately

[Myrion 528]

Yeah, you can't use the dice that you reserve - they become dropped dice.

It is not very good, unless you roll way better than you need to, I think. 

[Avatar111 553]

arent the dice(s) you remove from the roll added as "kept" dice for your next roll (and not merely replace)? 

as i see it, its basically a way of making sure your next roll is stronger. lets say you just get one opportunity and fail to hit your melee attack. keep that opportunity and next time you roll melee attack and you hit, but only have one opportunity... well now you have 2 because you can add the keep dice, so you can crit.

its a rank 1 tech...

Edited October 23, 2018 by Avatar111

[JBento 229]

Striking as Air is basically a set-up strike. You deal a smaller hit (or none at all) this time so you can bring the house down with a bigger technique next attack (hint: not just successes, but consider reserving Opps so you can pump up those TNs or affect more targets or add more effects, etc. The best picks are obvious Explosive successes)

No, you can't use the dice you reserve on the Striking as Air check - as Myrion pointed out, they become dropped dice.

Remember that you don't roll all the dice in the next check, you roll -X dice so you can put the reserved ones in.

Earth and Water DO strike me as the best "Striking as" techniques.

[Avatar111 553]

9 minutes ago, JBento said:

Striking as Air is basically a set-up strike. You deal a smaller hit (or none at all) this time so you can bring the house down with a bigger technique next attack (hint: not just successes, but consider reserving Opps so you can pump up those TNs or affect more targets or add more effects, etc. The best picks are obvious Explosive successes)

No, you can't use the dice you reserve on the Striking as Air check - as Myrion pointed out, they become dropped dice.

Remember that you don't roll all the dice in the next check, you roll -X dice so you can put the reserved ones in.

Earth and Water DO strike me as the best "Striking as" techniques.

Oh, you have to remove dices from your dice pool if you want to add the "reserved" dices.

Yeah not so hot. Situational, to salvage missed rolls i guess.

Isnt there a conflict air opp usage that does similar?

Edited October 23, 2018 by Avatar111

[JBento 229]

12 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Oh, you have to remove dices from your dice pool if you want to add the "reserved" dices.

Yeah not so hot. Situational, to salvage missed rolls i guess.

Isnt there a conflict air opp usage that does similar?

Ridiculously, the basic Opp usage is better than SaA for Opps - it just gives you an extra Opp in your next Martial check.

[Shosur0 73]

13 minutes ago, JBento said:

Ridiculously, the basic Opp usage is better than SaA for Opps - it just gives you an extra Opp in your next Martial check.

Yeh, sadly, a not well thought technique...

[JBento 229]

Oh, slight correction to the OP: you reserve 1 die for the first Opp, and an extra die for every 2 Opps.

[Avatar111 553]

yeah Striking as fire and air sucks. compared to earth and water (which last for an entire round, against all enemies) and compared to void (just wow), air and fire are bad.

so quick potential fix;

striking as fire: should work on all critical strikes the character receive for a full round (like earth and water). at least...

striking as air: i see why they were scared. if you can start to always keep extra successes, then you kind of assure yourself to always have at least 1 success the next roll. but you know what...

considering it needs to be for a check using the same skill, before the end of your next turn(everything could change when your next turn come up)... only for martial stuff(so basically you need to reduce your dmg this turn to keep successes) basically "debuffing" your current check by spending opportunities ON TOP OF removing dices you want to reserve....Then i am almost willing to say that you wouldn't need to roll fewer dices to add your reserved dices on your next roll. you just add them. its not like you can do that for more than 1 or "sometimes" 2 dices anyway and you either needed to have an absolutely crazy good roll or a crazy bad roll for it to really be a useful technique. i think it is fair. jeez, for Opportunities you can already do that with the regular opportunities spending on p.328... so its basically only a point of discussion for "successes"... worst comes to worst, make it so that you cannot keep dices with explosions on them.

my book is going to start to look more and more like a work in progress  i'm going to salvage this game though...at least for my group. it have too much potential to be left as is.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Avatar111

[Avatar111 553]

and yeah coiling serpent is a bit busted can be done on a miss too! poggers. really need to get to reading the techniques. some stuff is just so OBVIOUSLY wrong ? what the *** did they do ??

one opportunity each turn to make the opponent main weapon unusable. EZ. well, hopefully he dual wields...

coiling serpent should maybe be +1TN to all checks the character make using that weapon until end of next turn. ffs... thats already really good. i feel adding a resist check would just bloat the game.. making people roll resists too often just slow down things.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Avatar111

[JBento 229]

10 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

and yeah coiling serpent is a bit busted can be done on a miss too! poggers. really need to get to reading the techniques. some stuff is just so OBVIOUSLY wrong ? what the *** did they do ??

one opportunity each turn to make the opponent main weapon unusable. EZ. well, hopefully he dual wields...

technique should maybe be +1TN to all checks the character make using that weapon until end of next turn. ffs... thats already really good. i feel adding a resist check would just bloat the game.. making people roll resists too often just slow down things.

Do it in Air stance and Thunderclap Strike with a Trident/Ji and you can neutralise 2-3 weapons at once, even if you need to miss to get more Opps.

[Avatar111 553]

23 minutes ago, JBento said:

Do it in Air stance and Thunderclap Strike with a Trident/Ji and you can neutralise 2-3 weapons at once, even if you need to miss to get more Opps.

yeah, you probably want to miss anyway so they cannot roll their resist check on the Thunderclap Strike effect and get opportunities against you, imagine, 3 enemies all rolling resists, all using opportunities... 

the more i think about it.. really not sure you should be able to spend opportunities on resist checks. i feel ultra bloating.

 

you and me, are going to be best friends on these forums!

do you think only 1 technique maximum per check is too weak ? and you have to call it before rolling ?

or maybe have some techniques that have the "combo" tag, and can be used on top of anything else. basically you can only use one non-combo technique and it need to be called before you roll. combo technique can be activated anytime on top of anything (like the "striking as" techniques).

Edited October 23, 2018 by Avatar111

[Avatar111 553]

btw, what does that mean:

kata Tactical Assessement;

fire opportunity: choose a character in the conflict and one of their advantages you know. until the end of their first turn, they apply that advantage to all of their checks.

i. dont. get. it.

[JBento 229]

Choose a character in the conflict and one of their advantages you know [they have], etc. etc.

Does that make it clearer?

Note that you can pick yourself (you know your advantages, obviously).

Then, the effects of the advantage (e.g., lose 3 Strife, reroll 2 dice) apply to any check you make until the end of your first turn.

Earth is meh, but Tactical Assessment otherwise rocks and everyone should pick it up, which just makes me sad the school I'm intending to play (Daidoji Iron Soldier) doesn't get to pick it up until rank 3 if I want to apply the full cost to levelling.

[Avatar111 553]

ok so knowing somebody's advantage doesnt do anything narrative in this case, its basically "choose a character in the conflict you know, he can reroll 2 dices on his next check". i think i prefer this wording, because i feel its so weird to say "hey because you have the advantage ally [name], and i know it, you can reroll 2 dices on your next check against these goblins!"

so. weird.

 

on a side note, i would also make Daidoji Iron Soldier. Daidoji Uji ftw.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Avatar111

[Avatar111 553]

1 hour ago, JBento said:

Earth is meh, but Tactical Assessment otherwise rocks.

earth is 1 opp, so that a character dont apply his disadvantages for 1 turn.

p.329, earth opportunity usage for initiative; 1 opp, choose another character disadvatange you know, they do not apply that one disadvantage to their check this SCENE. (much better...even if only 1 disadvantage!)

reality is... this game is a fkin mess mechanically... it really is that messed up. it needs a reprint, i was sure about it, now i'm even more certain.

 

back to it... fire(because its just stupid and non-relevant to the advantage considering they all have the same bonus; -3 strife or reroll 2 dices) and earth(because its too weak) need a rework. air and water are fine as is.

fire: choose a character in the conflict, until the end of their first turn, they can reroll 1 dice on all their checks. (i thought 2 was too strong, its already "all checks", that includes all resists)

earth: choose a character in the conflict, they gain +1 physical resistance until end of their first turn. (basically like striking as earth, but before their first turn. for dudes with slow initiative) 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Avatar111

[Myrion 528]

You realise that you're a) far off-topic for this thread and b) consistently the only one who thinks this game is as much of a mess as you do?

[Moderately 7]

Sorry for coming back so late, new account so weekend post had to wait for moderators approval.

 

Thanks for the clarification, and yeah, in most cases even when you're 2 below the TN you have better odds trying your chances for an explode->explode->success than trying to reserve the explode.

 

@Avatar111

 

I was actually thinking about how to tweak Striking as Air, and I hope this idea sees some live testing.

Striking as Air

Opp+: feint, the next strike action targeting this foe before the end of your next turn treats the TN to hit them as one lower per opportunity spent (minimum TN 1)

 

Effectively one opp for 1 success against most foes. While +1 success > +1 armor pierce, I'm hoping the delayed payoff and limit on how much opportunity you can benefit from keep it in line with the rest of the Striking series. Also finally gives an air kata that does the whole, trick thing outside ninjutsu. Definitely less cluttered and faster to communicate then the current Striking as Air.

 

The fire tactical assessment is probably worded like that to avoid someone stacking it with an advantage for 4 rerolls.

 

As for striking as fire, I'll need to double check when the book arrives, but I believe it can actually be pretty useful for low deadliness weapons like the tetsubo, as normally enemies can drop void points to ignore the massive damage fire stance pumps out and eat a low severity crit. A bit specific, but covering the primary weakness of a weapon is definitely worth considering. It also scales up decently when crits become more reliable. Just would probably work better as its own technique with a more general option for the striking as series.

[Avatar111 553]

3 hours ago, Moderately said:

Sorry for coming back so late, new account so weekend post had to wait for moderators approval.

 

Thanks for the clarification, and yeah, in most cases even when you're 2 below the TN you have better odds trying your chances for an explode->explode->success than trying to reserve the explode.

 

@Avatar111

 

I was actually thinking about how to tweak Striking as Air, and I hope this idea sees some live testing.

Striking as Air

Opp+: feint, the next strike action targeting this foe before the end of your next turn treats the TN to hit them as one lower per opportunity spent (minimum TN 1)

 

Effectively one opp for 1 success against most foes. While +1 success > +1 armor pierce, I'm hoping the delayed payoff and limit on how much opportunity you can benefit from keep it in line with the rest of the Striking series. Also finally gives an air kata that does the whole, trick thing outside ninjutsu. Definitely less cluttered and faster to communicate then the current Striking as Air.

 

The fire tactical assessment is probably worded like that to avoid someone stacking it with an advantage for 4 rerolls.

 

As for striking as fire, I'll need to double check when the book arrives, but I believe it can actually be pretty useful for low deadliness weapons like the tetsubo, as normally enemies can drop void points to ignore the massive damage fire stance pumps out and eat a low severity crit. A bit specific, but covering the primary weakness of a weapon is definitely worth considering. It also scales up decently when crits become more reliable. Just would probably work better as its own technique with a more general option for the striking as series.

Who uses a tetsubo in this game? Its got to be the worst weapon. Take a naginata, a nodachi, or, the bisento. 

 

 

[AtoMaki 1,431]

My theory is that the writers forgot to update all the old reserve abilities to the new and better kind. They had the latter for Center (where it was originally pointed out that the old reserve method was crap) and the shiny new Void Opp, but not for Channeling and Striking as Air. 

I think Striking as Air should work like the Void Opp, so the reserved results come into play after all dice are rolled. Also, the <Opp><Opp> cost of additional reserved dice is definitely a mistype, it should cost only one <Opp>. This would be actually pretty nice because you can salvage a lot out of a bad roll with this Technique and it has very good synergy with "safe game" combatants like archers. 

[JBento 229]

Eh, the OppOpp cost means you get an extra reserved die at 1, 2, and 4 opps. Considering you're going to have to spend dice to actually reserve dice in the first place, I'm not sure that cutting the cost down to Opp makes a difference.

[Avatar111 553]

doesn't it become good enough, and fun, if they simply remove the part where they say that you have to roll "fewer dices" and replace them with your reserved dice ? 

basically, if the dice you reserve would be removed from your current roll, but when you add them to you next roll the next turn, you simply add them ? (like the opportunity conflict air usage works?)

it would still be a very expensive technique, because you need to remove the dice you want to reserve + spend 1opp. and if you want to reserve 2 dices, you basically need to remove 2 dices and pay 3opps!

Edited October 24, 2018 by Avatar111

[Avatar111 553]

on another subject, to start today's debate; Damage

rule clarification here; lets say you are at fatigue 9remaining out of 12max. then a Dude hitd you with a 8dmg attack and you have a 2resistance armor, so you take 6dmg.

scenario 1: what happens ? what's your fatigue score end up at, and do you take a critical hit or a condition ?

scenario 2: you decide to use a void point to take a critical strike instead of defending. what happens ?  what's your fatigue score end up at, and do you take a critical hit or a condition ?

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Avatar111

[AtoMaki 1,431]

5 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

doesn't it become good enough, and fun, if they simply remove the part where they say that you have to roll "fewer dices" and replace them with your reserved dice ? 

This is how the 'new' reserve abilities work, and this is how Striking as Air should work too in my opinion. 

By the way, there are two big uses for this Technique: diffusing "overexplosion" (when your explosions go too far) by dropping and later reserving the surplus, and salvaging "misfailure" (when you fail to succeed but your roll has some very good results like <Succ><Opp>). And since this Technique is "always active", you don't have to give up anything (well, only 2 XP) for a nice safety net. 

[JBento 229]

I'm not sure I understand your setup - do you mean I have 9 Fatigue and 12 Endurance, or that I have 3 Fatigue and 12 Endurance and thus can take 9 more Fatigue? There's no such thing as "maximum Fatigue." I'm going to assume it's the first case:

Scenario 1: Your Fatigue is now 15. You get whatever the condition is that you get whenever your Fatigue exceeds your Endurance. Incapacitated, I think? You take no crit, unless Dude has an ability that says you do.

Scenario 2: Your Fatigue remains as it was - you're not defending, so you don't get Fatigue. You DO take that cirtical hit, you get no condition unless the crit table says so or Dude has an ability that says so.