Military Might of a Rogue Trader

[Dangerbutton 3]

Our ship has the supplemental component "Barracks". In the book it says this allows for thousands of soldiers, but how many thousands? We're in a Light Cruiser, so the population is already over 50,000, so are we talking only 3-4,000 in the barracks or more like 15-20,000 soldiers?

Coming up my group may have an opportunity to get involved in a little bit of a war, so I'm just wondering how large a scale to make the war.

[Brother Praetus 11]

Dangerbutton said:

Our ship has the supplemental component "Barracks". In the book it says this allows for thousands of soldiers, but how many thousands? We're in a Light Cruiser, so the population is already over 50,000, so are we talking only 3-4,000 in the barracks or more like 15-20,000 soldiers?

Coming up my group may have an opportunity to get involved in a little bit of a war, so I'm just wondering how large a scale to make the war.

No real general consensus that I've seen, but it's been tossed about that the Barracks should hold one Regiment; anywhere from 1,000-5,000 troops plus support and vehicles, depending on whether you're talking armored cavalry or full infantry.  At space 4 the barracks component on a frigate is the same size as on a cruiser, so capacity should reasonably not scale with the hull class.  It is supplemental component so it can technically be taken more than once, thus expending a ships capacity to carry ground assets across the void.  Armour Plating, Armoured Prow, and the Tenebro-Maze are the supplemental components specifically forbidden from being taken more than once per ship.  Of course this is something I think the majority of us overlooked when the Errata was being worked on.

-=Brother Praetus=-

[Dangerbutton 3]

Brother Praetus said:

 

No real general consensus that I've seen, but it's been tossed about that the Barracks should hold one Regiment; anywhere from 1,000-5,000 troops plus support and vehicles, depending on whether you're talking armored cavalry or full infantry. 

-=Brother Praetus=-

I had not even considered support and vehicles. What kind of vehicles would a Rogue Trader likely have on his ship? The most exposure to WH40K vehicles is from the computer game Dawn of War. Are the vehicles in that Predators, Whirlwind Tanks, Leman Russ's, etc reserved for the Imperial Guard and Adeptes Astartes, or is there the likelihood that a Rogue Trader could get a hold of one?

[MILLANDSON 306]

Remember though that the soldiers don't come with the barracks. You'll have to go looking for men to hire first, unless you've already done that. The Barracks component just contains the facilities, not the men and supplies.

[Dangerbutton 3]

MILLANDSON said:

Remember though that the soldiers don't come with the barracks. You'll have to go looking for men to hire first, unless you've already done that. The Barracks component just contains the facilities, not the men and supplies.

That's a good point. However, since the ship started with a barracks, I'll assume that it is at least at partial strength. Or, perhaps it's got soldiers with lower stats, poor craftsmanship gear, etc. They'll have to put for the effort if they want anything better.

[Sister Callidia 3]

Even without barracks a Rogue Trader has a lot of military  might. Every vessel will have an armed detail that will be used  to keep the crew under control, repel boarders and occasionally board other vessels. In my case I have ruled that these man can be armed with combat shotguns, flak armor and the occasionally heavy weapon like the shotcannon. It would not be to hard to imagine that you can have a few hundred of such guards with you to enforce your will. Sure they ain't Imperial Guards but still a force to be reckoned with and they come with the ship itself.

As for vehicles. That's what aquisition rules are for.  There is plenty of surplus material to be found I am sure. I would not be surprised if the RT have a couple of trucks they can transport down for ground transport. On my ship, they have at least 1 nice armored limo for the RT to travel to places in style, comfort and safety.

 

[Cifer 211]

@DangerButton

I had not even considered support and vehicles. What kind of vehicles would a Rogue Trader likely have on his ship? The most exposure to WH40K vehicles is from the computer game Dawn of War. Are the vehicles in that Predators, Whirlwind Tanks, Leman Russ's, etc reserved for the Imperial Guard and Adeptes Astartes, or is there the likelihood that a Rogue Trader could get a hold of one?

Apart from Rhinos, everything the Astartes use will be very hard to get hold of. Pretty much everything else apart from certain exceptions (titans, super-heavy tanks) will be fair game, assuming the RT has sufficient Profit Factor.

[mhrocznykiciak 0]

i Would say more like 3000-5000  soldiers (regiment). Mind that Soldier is actually more than just 'man with gun'.

I would say that IG stuff is hard but possible to obtain. Not all planet governators are lawfull. And c'mon RT can get lances batteries but no tanks? It would be silly.

You can download Vehicles Apocrypha, afaik its optiona BI rules, so it should be compatabile with official books.

[Brother Praetus 11]

mhrocznykiciak said:

You can download Vehicles Apocrypha, afaik its optiona BI rules, so it should be compatabile with official books.

The vehicle apocrypha pdf is the BI official, trimmed down version of the vehicle rules that was cut from DH due to space constraints.  Yes, they are optional, but they're not too bad for a set of simplified rules.  Aquilla landers, cargo lighters and guncutters are in there as well.  Even if people don't use the rules in the Apocrypha as they were written, they make a good basis to work off of.

-=Brother Praetus=-

[Xagroth 2]

Remember: there is Imperial Guard (line troops), elite imperial guard (like Karskin in DoW), and Planetary Defence Forces (a little more than militias... even the regular troops of the IG have better morale XD). Just check the table in pg 272 about Acquisition modifiers, and remember you might have to  roll once for the people, once for the weapons, once for the armor and once for the vehicles (IF you have a forgiving GM without problems in giving you the option... if not, you might have to roll for everything in a single package).

So lets's see:

First, you roll for a Division (2000 to 5000 men) of common (+0) ex-IG vets: that means a -20 to the roll.

Second the weapons: a trusty laser rifle is Common (+20), for a Division (-20) gives you a 0 modifier.

Third the armour: Abundant (a flak armour might be considered easier to find than voidsuits; +50), for a Division (-20) for a total of +30 to the roll.

Finally the support vehicles...  the easier and most common vehicle you can get is a Chimera for transport, and Leman Russ for combat... but be advised Rhinos and Razorbacks will be easier to find than a Leman Russ (and they aren't easy to find either!). TheChimeras would be Rare at the minimun (maybe even Very Rare) for -10, and for a Division that means a -20. Note that, in this case, the "Division" cuantity would mean about a Chimera for every 30-40 guards, not 2000-5000 Chimeras (the adquisition modifier is "to equip XX people", not "XX cuantities), so I would be generous and the rarity modifier to -0.

The total for a single roll would then be -20 +0 +30 -20 = -10.

By the way, the supplies for these people are not included in the roll, because it would make it easier (ration pack is Ubiquitous, Common, and for a Division would mean a  +50 modifier, so I would give it "for free").

 

Note that including some Leman Russ in the roll would mean a -40 to a roll (a tank Division of common quality, very rare minimun...), and I might force an "adventure" for that. Note also this is to give the Rogue Trader the CONTROL over those military forces, if he is just transporting them to a "hot zone", then he doesn't have to roll at all, it is a mission (a military objective), but while having those troops inside the barracks they would give the beneficts (meaning it's a VERY bad idea to try to board a troop transport cruiser... and probably a last idea to boot).

[MDMann 1]

There's really no such thing as a standard IG regiment size. That said, 2'000~10'000 is generally considered combat effective, without taking troop quality and equipment into account. Note, this is for a 'line' regiment (ie infantry) the most versatile and most common type of troop. The numbers needed to support these troops could be five or six times this number (of fighting men), though some of the slack could be taken up by the vessels regular logistics chain.  Infantry is generally further divided into several specialties, depending on arms and armour (but not training or quality), the most common of which are: Light Infantry, Medium Infantry, Mechanised Infantry (generally in Chimera's, usually Medium Infantry), Heavy Infantry, Recon Groups (scouts & snipers), Special Forces (storm troopers, troops etc), Abhumans (Ogryn, Ratlings, Nightsiders etc), Penal Legions and Super Heavy Infantry (exceedingly rare).

Other forces such as the Skittari also exist, together with the Artillery, Armour, Cavalry, Marines (not Space Marines) and Airborne troops, all of which are further subdivided as per the infantry.

[Iku Rex 14]

(Empty.) 

 

[Iku Rex 14]

MILLANDSON said:

Remember though that the soldiers don't come with the barracks. You'll have to go looking for men to hire first, unless you've already done that. The Barracks component just contains the facilities, not the men and supplies.

 

That's not in the rules.

I see no reason why the barracks component would be different from every other component and not be fully functional at ship creation.

 

***

 

As for how many troops you get, I'd go with about 5000.

You could easily make it more. Barracks use as much space as voidsmen quarters for a Cruiser (95 000 crew). So with 5000 men I'd assume they're well equipped and have their own vehicles and light artillery as well as stores and facilities for training and maintenance.

[bobh 2]

Iku Rex said:

You could easily make it more. Barracks use as much space as voidsmen quarters for a Cruiser (95 000 crew). So with 5000 men I'd assume they're well equipped and have their own vehicles and light artillery as well as stores and facilities for training and maintenance.

 

I'm agreeing with you on this though limiting the troop numbers to 5,000 is a bit restrictive.  4 space is HUGE.  Perhaps limiting it to HALF the crew size, say 50,000 infantry, or 25,000 mechanized infantry.  After all a lot of that room is extra stowage, supplies, entertainment and training facilities for the boyz.

[Gokerz 3]

In my game I will handle it the way that if you "buy'" an IG regiment, you get the complete regiment with all accessories. But all those things the regiment might come with belong to the imperial army, not the rogue trader. It based a bit on trust between me and the players that they won't use the acquisition of an IG regiment to get easy access to heavy weapons, valkyres and sentinels for personal use.

 

 

For example, a (relatively small) regiment of Cadian Shock troops (which I would rule as being best quality) would consist of:

Personnel

1 Colonel, 13 Captains, 62 Lieutnants, 144 Sergants, 1402 other ranks, for a total of 1622.

Weapons

1459 Lasguns, 176 Laspistols, 98 Close Combat Weapons, 64 Mortars, 32 Lascannons, 31 Missile Launchers, 32 Heavy Bolters, 32 Autocannons, 36 Plasma guns, 36 Melta guns, 36 Grenade launschers, 36 flamers, 9 Sabre gun platforms, 20 searchlights.

Vehicles

24 Chimeras, 31 Sentinels, 10 Hellhounds, 6 Sentry guns, 3 Trojans, 3 Sentinel Power Lifters.

 

All numbers based on Imperial Armour vol. 4.

[Xagroth 2]

Iku Rex said:

MILLANDSON said:

 

Remember though that the soldiers don't come with the barracks. You'll have to go looking for men to hire first, unless you've already done that. The Barracks component just contains the facilities, not the men and supplies.

 

 

 

That's not in the rules.

I see no reason why the barracks component would be different from every other component and not be fully functional at ship creation.

 

***

 

As for how many troops you get, I'd go with about 5000.

You could easily make it more. Barracks use as much space as voidsmen quarters for a Cruiser (95 000 crew). So with 5000 men I'd assume they're well equipped and have their own vehicles and light artillery as well as stores and facilities for training and maintenance.

 

Mainly here is where the GM will say things like "the adventure, if you want those soldiers, is to get them", or be magnanimous enough to let you have them filled from the beginning. Anyway you should have in mind we are talking here about Imperial forces, the rulebook speaks about armed people with some military training (which can be your personal army).

Also take into account more things can be transported into military barracks, like pilgrims, colonizers, etc... Which makes your ship like a bus. I would allow the bonus in Achievement Points this component grants to be applied also to transport (of people) missions... And of course the cargo bays would not give their bonus to transport (people), or at least they would give a reduced bonus (half or even less).

[Dalnor Surloc 1]

Iku Rex said:

MILLANDSON said:

 

Remember though that the soldiers don't come with the barracks. You'll have to go looking for men to hire first, unless you've already done that. The Barracks component just contains the facilities, not the men and supplies.

 

 

 

That's not in the rules.

I see no reason why the barracks component would be different from every other component and not be fully functional at ship creation.

 

The rules clearly state you get no boarding bonus UNLESS you are on a military objective.  Thus it's obvious that troops don't come with the component.  That said aquiring run of the mill PDF troopers wouldn't be a difficult roll.

[N0-1_H3r3 287]

Dalnor Surloc said:

 

The rules clearly state you get no boarding bonus UNLESS you are on a military objective.  Thus it's obvious that troops don't come with the component.  That said aquiring run of the mill PDF troopers wouldn't be a difficult roll.

You're mixing up the two benefits. The Achievement Points for Military Objectives don't list the presence of troops one way or another except in the rule's name ("Soldiers"), but the bonus to boarding actions is worded as so: "If the ship is transporting troops, it gains +20 to all Command Tests involving boarding actions and Hit and Run actions". The If is particularly telling; if the component came fully- and permanently-stocked with troops, then there would be no need for that sentence to begin with 'If'.

[Iku Rex 14]

 

N0-1_H3r3 said:

The Achievement Points for Military Objectives don't list the presence of troops one way or another except in the rule's name ("Soldiers"), but the bonus to boarding actions is worded as so: "If the ship is transporting troops, it gains +20 to all Command Tests involving boarding actions and Hit and Run actions". The If is particularly telling; if the component came fully- and permanently-stocked with troops, then there would be no need for that sentence to begin with 'If'.

Not true at all. It could be barracks on a captured ship or a newly installed component (in-game, soldiers obviously won't appear out of thin air). But most importantly, the soldiers could be away from the ship making themselves useful. (Presumably you don't get the achievement points just from being better at boarding actions.) 

 

As you pointed out there is no limitation on the "Soldiers" benefit. You get the benefit of "Soldiers" automatically if you have the component, just as you get "Agile" if you have Augmented Retro-thrusters. That wouldn't make any sense if the designers assumed that getting hold of soldiers to make the component useful would be a separate task after character/ship creation. 

 

 

[Dangerbutton 3]

If you acquired and installed the barracks at some point after character creation, it would make sense that you still have to fill them up. However, if the barracks came at ship creation, I think we should keep in mind the fact that these ships are pretty old, and the barracks has probably been in there for centuries. It would be awfully silly for a Dynasty to keep an empty barracks on their ship for several centuries.

If you start with the component, it ought to be fully equipped. Perhaps not with the best of soldiers or equipment, but at least it has them. If my group wants to be able to use their soldiers in a serious fight, they're probably going to want to get them better gear and training, but I'm not going to say they have to go recruit a whole regiment.

[Xagroth 2]

I think N0's point is a little more broader: the barracks can be used to transport the Rogue Trader's army... or another one's army. Or a mercenary army. Of course, those people would automatically defend the ship they are in (the other option being waiting to see if they can negotiate with the other captain when things end, if their ship loses... not to mention the possibility of -roleplayingly taken- some nuts from the other ship manages to shoot at the main reactor and blow the whole ship!), allowing thus for the possibility of having the barracks empty. Personally, I would demand an Acquisition Test, not because of the army itself, but because of the supplies they need to live (and the money they will demand) when being the RT's personal army (this acquisition test would have been made prior to the start of the adventure, thus not counting to the number of acquisition tests per session), but in general I think it's a flexible matter each GM will decide personally.

[Giaus Novus Khan 3]

In our game we're going with the barracks beaing able to fit an equal amount of troops as the voidsman quarters - then take away some space for training, equipment etc...  so a cruiser has 95,000 crew and their barracks might manage 60,000 crew (as long as only two regiments of 4,000 troops each were mechanised)