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Ignithas

Ship Vader or Whisper with Crew Vader?

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14 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Every time I read the title of this thread, I think, "Who are we 'shipping Vader with now? I thought he was already married."

*widowed

 

why not ship Vader with Whisper?  Who would you prefer, L3-37?  He is more machine than man you know.

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On 10/20/2018 at 3:30 AM, JasonCole said:

I keep swapping in and out Prockets on him too. The big issue is that every game I have them, with a few exceptions, I don't end up using them. Then when I dump them in favor of something else, I end up with a bullseye double modded shot cursing myself that I don't have that sweet sweet 5 die attack.

That's because when you have prockets your opponent is making darn sure that they aren't in your bullseye at r1-2. No prockets? No worries

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I have tested both now and I really can't tell what is better. All my lists had Red Line and if you want to fly Red Line+Vader+XY, you have few points to tech out Red Line and the third ship. One list I tried was:

"Red Line"
- Proton Torpedos
- Trajectory Simulator
- Seismic Charges

Vader
- Fire Control System
- Supernatural Reflexes

Whisper
- Juke

The problem with this list is that it is pretty soft against lists with a PS 6 ship that bids 1-2.

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On 10/18/2018 at 1:21 PM, Ignithas said:

Whisper (52)

- Juke (4)
- Darth Vader (14)
- Collision Detector (5)
-- Gesammt (73)

I'd just like to point out that Whisper with this build is 75 points Gesammt. You almost had me thinking I can fit her without sacrificing some of the bid, shame on you ;)

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You guys have got me wondering....

can somebody please explain to me why Whisper with Juke and Vader crew seems to be so good? I don't get it.

I really don't.

Honestly, a good friend of mine used to be a big fan of first edition Whisper. But he was really disappointed when he tried her in 2.0 for the first time.

The reasons were: Whisper has always been a glass-cannon, but nowadays she doesn't even have the punch anymore and she cannot recloak directly after firing. Hopefully she can save one of her evade tokens to recloak after (maybe) taking some shots.

To me Vader (ship) seems to be so much better. Higher initative, native 3! force tokens, a lot of actions per round etc.

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I experimented Whisper, Darth Vader, and Tomax Bren, using as per crew 0-0-0 and BT-1. I having a lot of fun on it.

I do not intend they are the most powerfull, but those two clunkies are a pair of their own kind once you can be used to their role.

You have to tone down the upgrades both on Whisper and Vader, by the way, so the rely more on your skill as a gamer to be effective.

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25 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

You guys have got me wondering....

can somebody please explain to me why Whisper with Juke and Vader crew seems to be so good? I don't get it.

I really don't.

Honestly, a good friend of mine used to be a big fan of first edition Whisper. But he was really disappointed when he tried her in 2.0 for the first time.

The reasons were: Whisper has always been a glass-cannon, but nowadays she doesn't even have the punch anymore and she cannot recloak directly after firing. Hopefully she can save one of her evade tokens to recloak after (maybe) taking some shots.

To me Vader (ship) seems to be so much better. Higher initative, native 3! force tokens, a lot of actions per round etc.

First, forget how Phantoms behaved in 1st ed. The ship is totally different now. It's an X-wing that has a very nifty large boost or barrel roll before activating. This makes it much more manoeuvrable than any X-wing, whilst being around the same cost.

Juke maximises the free evade token, that's all. If you have the points, Outmanoevre will have a better effect, since you really don't want to be getting shot at since you will take damage, just like an X-wing would.

Vader crew is very good. He would be effective on almost any ship, particularly Reapers.

Whether Vader ship is better than using him as crew on Whisper is being debated in this thread, it isn't completely clear which is better, but Whisper is cheaper so fits into more squads.

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Vader pilot and Whisper could not be more different. Which is better surely depends on your squad composition. Which one you choose to use will therefore dictate the rest of your squad and their effectiveness within it.

Personally, I love Whisper with Vader crew, so I'm building that way.

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3 hours ago, Ignithas said:

I have tested both now and I really can't tell what is better. All my lists had Red Line and if you want to fly Red Line+Vader+XY, you have few points to tech out Red Line and the third ship. One list I tried was:

"Red Line"
- Proton Torpedos
- Trajectory Simulator
- Seismic Charges

Vader
- Fire Control System
- Supernatural Reflexes

Whisper
- Juke

The problem with this list is that it is pretty soft against lists with a PS 6 ship that bids 1-2.

I ran this tonight at the club except no juke and proton bombs on redline with a 2 point bid, against some rebel Ys and Wedge - he conceded at the end of round 3 with one Y gone and another with 3 hull left. 

Redline is a monster and almost certainly underpriced. Being able to self double mod is amazing.

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11 hours ago, Schu81 said:

You guys have got me wondering....

can somebody please explain to me why Whisper with Juke and Vader crew seems to be so good? I don't get it.

I really don't.

Honestly, a good friend of mine used to be a big fan of first edition Whisper. But he was really disappointed when he tried her in 2.0 for the first time.

The reasons were: Whisper has always been a glass-cannon, but nowadays she doesn't even have the punch anymore and she cannot recloak directly after firing. Hopefully she can save one of her evade tokens to recloak after (maybe) taking some shots.

To me Vader (ship) seems to be so much better. Higher initative, native 3! force tokens, a lot of actions per round etc.

As Gilarius said, Whisper isn't the same ship as she was before at all. The only similarity is that she still has a unique flight pattern due to her decloaks. If you take an X-Wing and replace one hull point with stygium array, you get a phantom. Stygium array is essentially comm relay, but you also get decloak movement as long as you keep the evade. With most phantoms, that only works while you are not getting shot, but whisper can afford to spend the evade on defense since she gets another one from her pilot ability when she hits.

Why is Juke+Vader good? Juke is good on a phantom because you always have an evade token, so you force your opponent to spend a focus/calculate on defense or suffer +1 hits. Vader is good because he forces them to spend a green token at the start of combat or suffer 1 damage. Combine the two and they have to suffer 1 damage, unless they have multiple tokens.

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On 10/18/2018 at 3:31 PM, Mward1984 said:

I'm not even sure that Collision Detector is 100% neccessary. Fun? Yes. But without it you can take a Juking Rexler and still have 41 points left over for Iden or Saber Squadron.

And squeezing things a bit maybe a ps1 reaper with that lovely jam.... Whisper loves jammed, tokenless ships. ;)

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