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2.0 Non-Vader TIE Advanceds

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17 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I've tried all of them except Ved and the Storm and they seem fine. 

Generics have to lock things which means you need to build your list around it more. Setting up nice killboxes is a skill that takes some getting used to. 

Zertik Strom is my favorite character for lore reasons but his ability is rough. It seems really cool but it's just hard to get off before he dies. Still workable though.

Maarek is pretty good, and gets really good paired with a Lambda. Coordinate roll-focus before he moves, blue move, then lock. 

They struggle from action efficiency but they're not the hot garbage people say they are. They are a little outclassed by some things in extended right now but those things might see a points increase, and I think they're great choices for a new release only format. 

This. Also, the buffed to I5 Maarek has great synergy with ATC, especially with crit chaining.   Palp gives him extra life (especially with elusive), Sai helps his action economy, and a cloak and choke Whisper or trajectory Redline are amazing wingmates (the former for opening and the latter for closing). 

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I flew Maarek tonight with no support... Having to switch targets sucks.... But he did show some promise, feeding an extra 2 damage through on a couple of Direct Hits, thanks to his ability. Was pretty much all I got him to do though.

Switching targets.... Easy to see how feeding him the lock or focus from a support ship could make him pretty viable. No hard 1 or boost makes it hard to stay on target. It's too easy to cycle ships away from him, if you're looking for R1 to really make him hurt, like I was.

I was too keen to switch my lock though, trying to make every attack count. I can imagine he'd be better solo than I managed, if you pick your target and set up your pursuit with more patience. Being willing to let it bide on occasion.

Vader is obviously a battering ram but Maarek seems to require a lot more subtlety, if he's acting on his own.

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FCS is the obvious choice, but I found myself switching targets so often and having to use red moves so much that I'd say Adv Sens is a better choice.  Or, wait until they get a steep price reduction so they are usable.  People keep treating these like three die ships, but they are not, they are two die ships with a weird built in munition called ATC.

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5 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

FCS is the obvious choice, but I found myself switching targets so often and having to use red moves so much that I'd say Adv Sens is a better choice.  Or, wait until they get a steep price reduction so they are usable.  People keep treating these like three die ships, but they are not, they are two die ships with a weird built in munition called ATC.

i gave up on the ship the minute it was spoiled, when they took away Evade  ( which is an ok action in 2.0) and made the the ATC not add results and made them cost the same as an X-wing i just knew they would suck. How on earth FFG thought that the X-wings should have free Boost actions added to them and the Adv X1 should not is beyond me

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X-wings can be incredibly nimble....    You can coordinate a boost to a closed X-wing, then when they activate they open the S-foils, move and then barrel roll. 

The tie advanced? It is just pure suck.. like darth evil says... because you have to roll for the third dice it really cuts the firepower and just makes this ship massively inferior to the x-wing despite being the same cost for the cheapest version. 

 

I had a few tie advanced in my collection but I decided to get rid of them and keep just the one.

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6 hours ago, Darth evil said:

How on earth FFG thought that the X-wings should have free Boost actions added to them and the Adv X1 should not is beyond me

I believe its because Supernatural Vader with roll and boost would be straight up broken.

Which is, unfortunately, balls for all the other pilots. With a boost, they become more responsive but there's no way to add it outside of a clunky, x1 only, EPT. Or an equally clunky Init limited mod

Bit of an oversight imo. They wanted Vader to be great but not broken and inadvertently restricted the rest.

Making them cheaper is the only real option and I'm not sure that makes them better to fly. They possibly need to be cheap enough to warrant Afterburners, which is a big drop.

Given that they're seemingly not bad with support, any adjustment that makes them better without support might just tip them the other way.

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Are you guys looking at the same math I am?

The new ability is better at every range than the old ATC!

And given all the talk of having to change targets, why not spend the lock to mod? If you don't roll the hit, you don't get the crit before using the target lock, but on average you do 2.25 damage opposed to 2 damage from 1.0 version

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41 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I believe its because Supernatural Vader with roll and boost would be straight up broken.

Supernatural Luke is pretty nuts.

He starts off the turn with s-foils closed, he supernaturals a boost.  He then activates and does a regular barrel roll as his action.  Still has a focus for his attack and will get another back when he defends.  Luke>Vader imo.

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1 hour ago, Roundy1161 said:

Are you guys looking at the same math I am?

The new ability is better at every range than the old ATC!

And given all the talk of having to change targets, why not spend the lock to mod? If you don't roll the hit, you don't get the crit before using the target lock, but on average you do 2.25 damage opposed to 2 damage from 1.0 version

Um.

No its not. ATC added a crit. New ATC adds a rolled die. It's way worse, the fact that you can spend your lock notwithstanding.

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6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Um.

No its not. ATC added a crit. New ATC adds a rolled die. It's way worse, the fact that you can spend your lock notwithstanding.

Well, sort of. Now you can at least use it alongside another system.

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10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Um.

No its not. ATC added a crit. New ATC adds a rolled die. It's way worse, the fact that you can spend your lock notwithstanding.

Ummm yes it is better, I even gave the example but lets break it down for you.

1.0, unmodified 2 die shot with an added crit is an average of 2 hits
2.0, 3 die attack and can spend target lock, average of 2.25 hits

2.25 > 2, therefore better and with FCS, you keep your lock 50% of the time.

At range 1

1.0 unmodified 3 die with added crit average 2.5 hits
2.0 4 die attack can spend lock, average 3 hits, FCS means you can keep your lock 31.25% of the time.

3 > 2.5, therefore better

Slightly lower chance of crits though, and you can straight up roll 0 (1.5% of the time with 3 dice, 0.4% with 4 dice) which you couldn't do with 1.0 ATC

Edited by Roundy1161

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1 hour ago, william1134 said:

Supernatural Luke is pretty nuts.

He starts off the turn with s-foils closed, he supernaturals a boost.  He then activates and does a regular barrel roll as his action.  Still has a focus for his attack and will get another back when he defends.  Luke>Vader imo.

I don't know enough to disagree on the comparison, as they both stand. Certainly I think Super Luke is more fun.

But after flying Supernatural GI, the thought of being able to do something similar with all the power and resilience of Vader, seems kind of overly potent.

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44 minutes ago, Roundy1161 said:

Ummm yes it is better, I even gave the example but lets break it down for you.

1.0, unmodified 2 die shot with an added crit is an average of 2 hits
2.0, 3 die attack and can spend target lock, average of 2.25 hits

2.25 > 2, therefore better and with FCS, you keep your lock 50% of the time.

At range 1

1.0 unmodified 3 die with added crit average 2.5 hits
2.0 4 die attack can spend lock, average 3 hits, FCS means you can keep your lock 31.25% of the time.

3 > 2.5, therefore better

Slightly lower chance of crits though, and you can straight up roll 0 (1.5% of the time with 3 dice, 0.4% with 4 dice) which you couldn't do with 1.0 ATC

Attack wise its fine but then you have no defence focus, so you're all in on it. Switching targets means you have no reposition at all if you want to hit reasonably well, so that defence becomes even more relevant.

I like the new ATC a lot, but the lack of action efficiency around it is what hurts.

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5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Assuming spending the lock is a very poor assumption.

Depends on your goal of course, simple dice math doesn't take game state into account. But given everyone is saying you need to constantly switch targets why not spend it ?

If you presume FCS, then you hit for 1.938 without spending the lock, so slightly behind 1.0.

Yes, the action efficiency certainly hurts. You really need a coordinating ship to help out the non-Vader advanceds.

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I've flown the ship a number of times with others than Vader.  It isn't a terrible ship.   Always go with FCS for the dice mod.  Jousting against the front of your opponent's list is brutal.  It's often best to grab a Focus the first turn if you are getting shot at.  Yes, it is a pain to transfer TL's, but if you can stay on the same target, it can get pretty brutal to wear your opponent down.  

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2 hours ago, Roundy1161 said:

But given everyone is saying you need to constantly switch targets why not spend it ?

I think it was just me tbh. Which I mitigated somewhat by blaming it on my crappy choices :P

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6 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I believe its because Supernatural Vader with roll and boost would be straight up broken.

Which is, unfortunately, balls for all the other pilots. With a boost, they become more responsive but there's no way to add it outside of a clunky, x1 only, EPT. Or an equally clunky Init limited mod

Bit of an oversight imo. They wanted Vader to be great but not broken and inadvertently restricted the rest.

Making them cheaper is the only real option and I'm not sure that makes them better to fly. They possibly need to be cheap enough to warrant Afterburners, which is a big drop.

Given that they're seemingly not bad with support, any adjustment that makes them better without support might just tip them the other way.

Supernatural Luke can boost/roll, move, lock, and have a force modded torp. How is that less broken than Vader having access to boost or evade?  Don't forget, supernatural Kylo is coming, how is he less broken than Vader with boost?

The Tax1 is a bad chassis because they were afraid of Vader being too strong and now we're stuck with it unless they decide to start releasing fix cards again. 

Edited by HolySorcerer

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22 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Supernatural Luke can boost/roll, move, lock, and have a force modded torp. How is that less broken than Vader having access to boost or evade?  Don't forget, supernatural Kylo is coming, how is he less broken than Vader with boost?

The Tax1 is a bad chassis because they were afraid of Vader being too strong and now we're stuck with it unless they decide to start releasing fix cards again. 

Moving last, with all the repositions? With his ability, he'd be able to boost/roll in any order with no stress whatsoever, before or after moving. On top of that, Kylo and Luke can do their thing, but Vader will always react last and then shoot 1st.

No access to the 1 hard is big, but it wouldn't reign him in that much imo.

But look, I'm happy to be wrong, the above is just what I reckon. In the absense of any evidence to the contrary, I'm happy to go on reckoning it for now. As if it even matters or is relevant to anything.

My point was simply that FFG thought you don't fix the x1 by giving it boost, you break Vader. I feel like they're probably right. I didn't say that was a good solution.

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46 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Supernatural Luke can boost/roll, move, lock, and have a force modded torp. How is that less broken than Vader having access to boost or evade?  Don't forget, supernatural Kylo is coming, how is he less broken than Vader with boost?

The Tax1 is a bad chassis because they were afraid of Vader being too strong and now we're stuck with it unless they decide to start releasing fix cards again. 

The can always add a 'configuration' slot and card if needed...

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