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2.0 Non-Vader TIE Advanceds

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Has Anyone had any luck with 2.0 non-Vader TIE Advanceds?

I can't figure out what role they play. They seem to have less firepower than TIE Phantoms, and also seem to have less survivability as well due to their free evade and decloaking movement. They also seem very dependent on Initiative score for TLs, and have trouble getting double modded dice as compared to juke phantoms. 

I do see the following going for non-Vader TIE Advanceds, though I'm not sure how to capitalize on these qualities:

  • They are a cheapish missile carrier option, but a lot of the missiles seem to be 3 dice attacks and thus pretty lackluster over the base Advanced Targeting Computer Attacks.
  • They have a sensor slot. Perhaps advanced sensors + outmaneuver for effectively double modded dice action (Advanced Sensors TL, K-turn, outmaneuver bonus)? Seems pricey though. 
  • They have reliable critical hit generating attacks due to Advanced Targeting Computer. So better against high hull / low shield ships, but reliant on high Initiative to make em work.

Has anyone played Maarek Stele? He seems workable at Initiative 5. Also Ved Foslo at Initiative 4 seems like maybe he could get some TLs in the first pass. Not sure how viable the PS3 and lower pilots are though.

 

What are your experiences and/or theory-crafting on non-Vader TIE Advanceds?

 

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I've only tried Maarek and he suffers from the same problem he did in 1st edition. He takes too much set-up to make his ability work, and usually ends up dying before he can use it. That describes the problem with the Advanced quite well, I think. The lower Initiative ones struggle to keep guns on the same target, which they need to do to get the most out of the ship's ability. Maarek is too expensive and vulnerable to being shot the turn he takes his lock in most cases. No Evade makes them quite squishy even with 3 Agility.

The ship has a whole doesn't really fill a niche at the moment, and isn't priced low enough to consider over things like the Phantom. I think FFG didn't want people taking 5 generics, hence the price, but I'm not so sure that would the that scary a squad.

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They are not good. They are comparable to x wings except their defences are worse (usually 3 dice naked versus 2 dice with focus), their linked actions are less useful (They need locks) and crucially, the x wing can pay 9 points to get 2 uses of ATC off a 3 die primary. They can't get up to 4 die attacks except at r1.

Their big issue afaict is that torps are just better than missiles.

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I've only tried Maarek, and he was perfectly okay. Problem is, my opponent had Thane, who has a similar but better ability, a similar but better ship, and a lower cost. :P I'll try out the generics one of these days; I'm particularly curious about Strom. Foslo has an interesting ability, but I'm not sure how useful it is at I4. I guess we'll see. In general though, I think they all need a slighty cost reduction. I'd at least bring Stele down to one point below Thane, and adjust the rest accordingly.

Other than that we mostly need new, cheapish systems that work well with lower initiative pilots (but please no Accuracy Corrector), and missiles that actually deal damage.

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I’ve had good luck with Marek and Ved. I do like both of their abilities. Ved is a slippery bugger, fun to use.

I will say they really benefit from a support ship. Jendon pairs nicely, as does Sai. Debris Gambit on the non Vader pilots is also good. Marek with FCS and Debris Gambit can be nasty, one of the most consistent offense around.

The vulnerability when taking the lock is true, but mitigatable. It is why most of the time I have a shuttle with. But they are a crit factory, and likely to have 3 hits every turn with FCS. I’d not even bother with any other System, FCS is the obvious pick given the ship ability.

But I managed to take out Super Luke 1 in 1 with Ved, his ability is extremely useful. Just dial a 2 speed every turn and go. It’s pure jank, of the best type.

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Ran Maarek with Vermeil in a second edition only tournament. Coordinating the focus was great, as it helped on defense with the boost from the lock for offense. 

Jousting is straight up terrible, flanking is the name if the game so you can get 2, maybe 3 shots on target before having to switch. 

Choosing the crit is pretty good, it isn't too uncommon to get double damage or fuel leak. I went through all but 5 cards on one of my opponents, lot of control in his ability. 

I added ruthless and chipped away at Vermeil to push through the crits. 

I looked at him as a damage dealer that they can't easily ignore once they've lost shields. 

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Kind of interested in Maarek, (struggling to work out how to fly Whisper.... plus hipster). Debris Gambit and FCS look decent. Was considering Marksmanship for horrible amounts of crit choice....

How do you deal with the 2 cards you don't pick, shuffle them back in? Place them on the bottom of the deck? Back on top!?

Seems like potential benefit for the defender if you draw a couple of direct hits and put one back in, way down. Edge case I guess and probably a negligible effect but I'd still like to be sure about what to do with them.

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1 minute ago, Cuz05 said:

How do you deal with the 2 cards you don't pick, shuffle them back in? Place them on the bottom of the deck? Back on top!?

You discard them. The rules mention a damage discard pile. I'd assume you shuffle the discards if you run out.

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The generics are certainly overpriced by a few points.  I don't see five of them being any scarier than five Kihraxzjlzvw's.  It's like FFG wanted all the new second edition players to get the authentic first edition experience of all the TIE Advanced pilots being terrible except for Vader.

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Suppose they create a new Mangler Cannon, and it's an oddball cannon.  It requires a Target Lock to fire, it's Range 1-3, it got the hit-to-crit conversion, and like other cannons still allows for range bonuses.  In some ways, this is more like a missile with unlimited ammo.  Would you run one of these on a M3-A Scyk?  Toss on a Shield Upgrade?

That's a TIE Advanced.  It's a 2-red dice ship with a janky Missile/Mangler Cannon.

//

So what can you do with a 2-red dice Missile ship?  I guess you can try to flank.  Get to the edge, and if you can chase rather than joust, you'll be in a much better spot with your Target Lock requirements.  But it doesn't have Boost, so that'll be hard to actually flank with the ship.  Try to joust, and you'll either be without Focus for your 3 green dice (which is kind of necessary), or you'll be paying 3-red dice prices for a 2-red dice ship, and that's usually a losing proposition.  In order to make them function, they need stuff like Fire Control System and Afterburners and then they're far, far pricier than they ought to be.

Is Maarek Stele bad?  I think yes, for his cost he is bad.  Consider that he's more expensive than Thane Kyrell (who also has a nasty crit-based ability), and Thane can be run without upgrades, while Stele is going to need FCS at least, and probably really wants Afterburners.  Comparing between factions is kind of iffy, but still.  Maarek has a cool ability, but you can't examine him outside his cost, and it just doesn't work out well.  Maarek with Crack Shot, FCS, and Afterburners is 62 points, same cost as Luke Skywalker without upgrades, and almost surely not as potent.

Non-Vader Advanced x1 are paying X-Wing prices for Scyk capabilities.

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Theyre horrible. All of them.

I dont see any reason to run nonvader x1's over a phantom.

The Phantom also has 5hp and trades its 3rd agility for actually getting tokens and keeping people in arc easier. For pennies more points.

The missile slot is pointless, as it was in 1.e prior to Cruise Missiles/Harpoons

System slot is basically forced to FCS so we can keep our lock easier

Abilities besides Vader are kinda meh. Not to mention easily the worst expose in the game is on a TIE X1 (low PS eats a lock to expose a random card....LOW PS!)

The dial isnt that great either but atleast its better than 1.0 was....

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Outside of a format that limited players to only I4 or lower pilots (which might be pretty fun), a lot of ships currently exist as platforms for their best ace.

Not to ever discourage anybody from trying to get new/niche things to work, but as long as you can put the miniature on the table and, in some form or another, do alright - it's mostly fine. This isn't an attack on anybody ITT, just a complaint a see kinda often - experimenting with unused stuff is fun, don't get me wrong.

3 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

The generics are certainly overpriced by a few points.  I don't see five of them being any scarier than five Kihraxzjlzvw's. 

3*/3/3/2 is mostly better than 3/2/5/1, and they've got a (slightly) better action bar and built-in crit generation.

For just one point more, that's a pretty nice package (although the secret is that the generic Kihraxz is overpriced too). 

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6 minutes ago, svelok said:

3*/3/3/2 is mostly better than 3/2/5/1, and they've got a (slightly) better action bar and built-in crit generation.

For just one point more, that's a pretty nice package (although the secret is that the generic Kihraxz is overpriced too). 

You're not wrong on either point but that asterisk on 3* attack dice is a major liability on a  low initiative ship.  Needing that target lock is going to hamstring the defense dice of the TIE quite a bit.

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2 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

You're not wrong on either point but that asterisk on 3* attack dice is a major liability on a  low initiative ship.  Needing that target lock is going to hamstring the defense dice of the TIE quite a bit.

True. Jendon Tempests might be pretty fun in a lower power-level restricted format.

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I spent a few games this weekend trying to get mileage out of Maarek, mostly what I experienced mirrors what I read above.

He's not particularly tanky so he wants to flank, but without boost he's also not always the most responsive flanker. He wants both a target lock and a focus on that first engagement, which means he needs something like Sai, Jendon, or a Reaper to support him, and if your support ship is a Lambda, it's a real struggle to keep both the Lambda and Maarek relevant to the fight while also being able to coordinate. He doesn't turn around particularly well either, in a lot of situations. K-Turning works all right (you didn't spend that TL last turn, I hope), but their blues are pretty limiting which means if the opponent has done something unexpected, your options for reacting while clearing stress are limited and fairly predictable. This also really discourages using the linked action; it's occasionally useful, but the impact on your next turn makes the cost deceptively high.

He does like Afterburners, but now you're devoting an arguably overly expensive card to an already questionably costed ship. FCS is ultimately the only upgrade I think I'm willing to spend points for on him. Debris Gambit sounds okay, but he's a 3 agility ship so I'd rather save the points and rely on focus for defense. I don't think the other Sensors are particularly good fits.

So basically I found him to be an okay ship, but one that just puts a bit too much demand on the listbuilding around him to be worthwhile. If you're running a support ship, I think there are more effective ships to support with it.

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I run Maarek along with a Reaper and you can easily have a TL from the Coordinate along with helping turn off the Ailerons when needed. He is dealing consistent damage, but the thing is that for the same points you can have Soontir or Whisper for example.

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2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Am I the only one who finds it odd Maarek is on this ship, when it's one of the ones he never actually flew in the PC game?

The Advanced X1 is meant to sort of represent the Avenger, at least it was in 1.0 and thus he was pulled on over as a pilot for the X1. Hopefully we will get him back in the Defender when they rerelease that ship. 

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Just now, Animewarsdude said:

The Advanced X1 is meant to sort of represent the Avenger, at least it was in 1.0 and thus he was pulled on over as a pilot for the X1. Hopefully we will get him back in the Defender when they rerelease that ship. 

Yeah, I get that, but it's a little disappointing.  I may have to see if I can find a good TIE Avenger model for when I fly Maarek.

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im not sure why people want him in a Defender.

The defender in 1.0 and even less so in 2.0 has no way of forcing his ability short of Marskmanship, which while its better in 2.0 than 1.0 (actionless bullseye vs spend 1 focus for 1 focus>crit mod) its still unlikely to happen often.

Defender wants either Ryad's crazy maneuverability or Brath's "added offense" (since hes high enough PS to often get use of both Juke and his ability before needing to spend that evade defensively).

The X1 atleast forces his ability, problem is the ship is so clunky and action-starved it doesnt matter. Its nowhere near durable enough to just weather a hit to deliver a deadly blow, so its easy to go several turns w/o the lock in the first place.

Also hilariously enough X1's are probably the only ship that truly hates Jamming tokens. I largely find jam tokens useless, but i'll do it against an X1 any day lol

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18 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

im not sure why people want him in a Defender.

Because we loved flying in a Defender and want him back.  Also, he'd be a cheap (for a Defender) I5 pilot.

The TAx1 is terrible, again.  Vader is okay if he has Supernatural, but outside of that the ship is not competitive.  I think the designers were so afraid of Vader that they handicapped the chassis too much.  Just compare it to any of its competitors in the same price range and the platform is laughable.

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