[MAFIA] And then there were. . .? - Ended

[PodRacer 1,077]

did you unvote?

 

[PodRacer 1,077]

I had Matt, Mad, JW, Pod (4)

[Matt3412 486]

No

okay hammer sorry 

[The Jabbawookie 5,610]

 

[Caldias 2,209]

 

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,493]

Hammer! Though technically speaking Mad's vote was only one #, I'll count it. Otherwise you guys would have to wait till he woke up and amended it several hours from now.

 

So! You all decide that the senator in the corner has got to be one of the murders. There he is, sitting all fancy and casually insulting the dead (the day before they die, no less). . . it's gotta be he!

 

@Caldias was lynched! He was a mafia-aligned 1-shot Strongman Goon.

 

Vote Count:

1. @The Jabbawookie
2. @Caldias - (4) Pod, Pod, Matt, Mad, Jabba, Pod
3. @PodRacer
4. @Matt3412 
5. @Madaghmire - (0) Pod, Jabba, Cal
6. @Constantine Valdor

 

Night Three has begun, it will end in 24 hours.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,493]

Day Four!

The senators wake up to a grizzly scene. It appears that another senator has died in the night, stabbed to death as he sat in the hallway joining the bedrooms together.

@Matt3412 has been killed. He was a town-aligned Doc

Vote Count:

1. @The Jabbawookie
2. @PodRacer
3. @Madaghmire
4. @Constantine Valdor

3 to hammer.

Day Four has begun, it will end in 48 hours.

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by GhostofNobodyInParticular

[PodRacer 1,077]

Thoughts CV? 

[The Jabbawookie 5,610]

He’ll turn up, but in the meantime I’ll give a read:

Pod: Town AF

CV: If you’re scum, we probably die at this point because I trust you.

Me: I’ve consistently pushed on Mads, to the point where I’ve impeded the killing of a scum player.  Matt, who recently held the most suspicion of me, is dead.  Not a great look.  On the other hand, I’ve been nothing if not consistent, I never claimed to oppose Caldias’ killing because I thought he was innocent, and the later this game goes the more my read looks right.

Mads:  Totally scum.  Are we really supposed to believe he wouldn’t have been killed by the lategame?  The dropped hashtag is almost certainly a typo, but I’m making note of it as new evidence just the same.  If I hadn’t voted on Cal and if Gnips hadn’t accepted the vote and if Mads hadn’t shown up in time and if you sacrifice a goat under the full moon... It’s a long shot to save a scum mate, but better than none.  Everything else I have against him is in previous posts.

[Constantine Valdor 101]

Dang, it's a coin flip now. Poor Matt :(, 2 games in a row.

I'll have to re read Mads and Jabba's post. I'm still intrigued with the potential good cop/ bad cop routine.
Mads did suggested the Bertie trains.

I just woke up this friday morning when you guys axed Cal around 4 in the morning, I would have voted Cal if he was L-1. I stated so last night under Pod's post before I slept

what are your thoughts Pod?

[Constantine Valdor 101]

I think Mads is more probable Scum out of the two

[PodRacer 1,077]

yeah I gotta re read too which I will get done in the next couple of hours.

[Constantine Valdor 101]

So Cal voted Mads once only.
and vice versa, when Town start suspecting Cal, maybe sacrificing team mate to regain Town trust?

He was also surprised when I voted on Bertie after his vote. But his vote post was suspecting Bertie being scum and how scum won't vote on that train.
Why would he, if he's town, be surprised of my town vote on Bertie? 

what say you Jabba? 

[The Jabbawookie 5,610]

It does raise eyebrows when someone goes “what he said” and votes.  But Mads actually made a solid case, and I don’t blame you for following him.  We all used similar logic, I think.  When the pressure was on Cal, he low-key tried to sell out his scum buddy, but the momentum wasn’t there and Mads rolled him instead.    And I almost forgot:

##vote @Madaghmire

[Madaghmire 7,274]

Im about to see a movie, please dont lose the game before I get back.

[PodRacer 1,077]

I know you know I thought about it, but nah, not Even I could vote there!!

[Madaghmire 7,274]

4 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

It does raise eyebrows when someone goes “what he said” and votes.  But Mads actually made a solid case, and I don’t blame you for following him.  We all used similar logic, I think.  When the pressure was on Cal, he low-key tried to sell out his scum buddy, but the momentum wasn’t there and Mads rolled him instead.    And I almost forgot:

##vote @Madaghmire

Unsurprising. Been pushing me all game, and yet to make anything resembling a decent argument. By the way, I was the third vote on Bertie. That wasn’t my train. I joined it because I felt I had identified two fellow townies, and was comfortable following on their train for that reason, which was explicitly laid out at the time. When I later push against CV for following my vote, its because he didnt give a reason. Following a good looking wagon is prototypical scum play. The camw Pods hammer which was ******* terrible town play, we had like 15 ******* hours left. If we didnt have Ebons verification, Scum would have won the next day because no one would have believed Pod wasn’t scum.

7 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

He’ll turn up, but in the meantime I’ll give a read:

Pod: Town AF

CV: If you’re scum, we probably die at this point because I trust you.

Me: I’ve consistently pushed on Mads, to the point where I’ve impeded the killing of a scum player.  Matt, who recently held the most suspicion of me, is dead.  Not a great look.  On the other hand, I’ve been nothing if not consistent, I never claimed to oppose Caldias’ killing because I thought he was innocent, and the later this game goes the more my read looks right.

Mads:  Totally scum.  Are we really supposed to believe he wouldn’t have been killed by the lategame?  The dropped hashtag is almost certainly a typo, but I’m making note of it as new evidence just the same.  If I hadn’t voted on Cal and if Gnips hadn’t accepted the vote and if Mads hadn’t shown up in time and if you sacrifice a goat under the full moon... It’s a long shot to save a scum mate, but better than none.  Everything else I have against him is in previous posts.

You have been consistent. You really have. But hey, lets examine your reasoning. Because it is ******* terrible.

On 10/24/2018 at 3:06 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

My reads:

@PodRacer is being weirder than normal.  Quiet voting without explanation isn’t like him.

@Caldias and @Madaghmire have both been their usual selves: both seeming to be helpful, Cal is quiet.  I won’t trust either of them because they’re very good liars, Mads to the point where he’s on the bottom of my scum list simply because we won’t know otherwise until we kill him.

@Bertie Wooster is giving off definite scum vibes.  Poor justification for his actions and reads where he sabotages his own reasoning are a big red flag.

@EbonHawk is still on my watch list.  His defense and conspiracy theory still come off a little too strong in my mind.  But Ebon doesn’t do things by half measures, and I don’t feel truly confident he’s scum rn.

@Matt3412 feels very town.  Actively contributing, nothing really out of place.  You’re in my good books for now, Matt... but I’ll be watching!

@Constantine Valdor is also going on the town list, because I believe his excuse and there are shadier people out there.  Even in a vacuum there are players I’d vote on first.

The good: Matt3412, CV

The bad: Bertie Wooster, Mads

The grey: Ebon, Pod, Cal

Yeah, thats hilarious, and flattering, but also not an actual reason. 

On 10/25/2018 at 12:20 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

I think we should kill Mads, because even if we’re wrong (big if) we won’t die having been tricked by him again.

Again, an effort to use my reputation as a skilled player as justification, on its own, for killing me.

On 10/25/2018 at 12:20 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

##vote @Madaghmire

In case we thought he was maybe joking, he actually voted on it. The quotes above are the sum total of his arguments against me. Lets kill Mad because when hes a scum player, hes a good player. Look, if you wanna policy vote me because you’re scared, fine, but do it D-1 when its a ******* crapshoot anyway. But after that, you play the game you’re in.

On 10/25/2018 at 3:12 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

So if we say Matt, Mads and CV don't have at least one scum among them, we're saying Bertie was an all town lynch.

Well, we know Cal was scum. Given your “arguments” against me, which at this point I’m hypothesising was just sewing seeds, it’s looking pretty ******* believable that it was, indeed, an all town push.

On 10/25/2018 at 3:25 PM, Madaghmire said:

Maybe. Im not sold between you and CV yet, but man what a coup for scum if you managed to keep both votes off. Then you could make this seemingly reasonable argument as though it has merit.

Here I am, pointing out what a terrible argument that is, and why he would make it in the moment. At this point, the magnifying glass is on Cal.

On 10/25/2018 at 7:05 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

Hmmph.  This rings of a mistake, and I can be 100% sure we have a scum vote on there.  Unfortunately, the only thing provable to the rest of you is if I am scum, Cal is scum (because I'd shut up and wait to surprise hammer him and win.)  This doesn't work both ways though.  Anyone see anything useful we can derive from the situation?

Here he is trying to convince us not to hammer Caldias, now a confirmed scum. 

On 10/25/2018 at 7:07 PM, Matt3412 said:

Cal and jabba got each others back till the end 

Matt, now dead, pointing this out.

On 10/25/2018 at 8:18 PM, Matt3412 said:

I'm almost more confident in killing jabba then cal

Matt, NOW DEAD.

On 10/25/2018 at 8:56 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

It's just a read, but I rest my case Mads needs to die.  He would've been a smarter N1 target than LTD, I've ruled out you two, and he's not gonna stumble easily.

What case?! Your case is that you’re scared of the boogeyman. I do love the “smarter kill earlier in the game argument” tho, its like saying “here’s how I f^cked up this game can you fix it for me?” But really folks, whats happening here is him trying to cash in on the fears he’s been stoking this whole game. And it answers its own question, I’m alive because who wants to lose to scum mad again, right? He ******* said it himself. But even if that weren’t the case, its a bad argument, in a game where the scum know that doc is a strong possibility, then if I’m a good N1 choice, I’m a bad N1 choice. Although in this game, assuming you aren’t playing the meta, then as someone who missed their chance to vote D1 I was a terrible N1 choice, which I feel like you know. And then Ebon was the logical N2 choice for scum since he was a confirmed cop.

Btw, how did you rule out CV? I  haven’t ruled out CV. The only person I’m sure of is Pod. I mean, this is rhetorical, I feel increasingly confident that you can say whatever because you know he’s not on your google doc.

On 10/25/2018 at 9:04 PM, PodRacer said:

We can flip Cal RN, if we dissemble, CV may follow Mad and we might not get majority back

********** pod, if I was scum you’d be dead. If CV followed me at that point he’d be following me onto Cal, you stoned putz. 

Yesterday, Pod and Jabba both wanted to kill me. Today, they are both alive. The crux of Jabba’s argument is what a great scum player I am, right? So lets assume I’m scum, I’m killing the ONE GUY who I had convinced I was town? And I’m simultaneously this amazing scum player?

The case against me is either fabricated (started the Bertie train), terribly reasoned (Good choice for N1 kill) or entirely meta. If we do not hang the scum, we lose this game. 

Now, I’m going to again look over CV to ensure there isnt something obvious I’m missing, and reread the thread to be sure I’m right about it, and then assuming I don’t find something, I’m going to come back and vote on Jabba. See you guys in the morning. 

[The Jabbawookie 5,610]

2 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

Unsurprising. Been pushing me all game, and yet to make anything resembling a decent argument. By the way, I was the third vote on Bertie. That wasn’t my train. I joined it because I felt I had identified two fellow townies, and was comfortable following on their train for that reason, which was explicitly laid out at the time. When I later push against CV for following my vote, its because he didnt give a reason. Following a good looking wagon is prototypical scum play. The camw Pods hammer which was ******* terrible town play, we had like 15 ******* hours left. If we didnt have Ebons verification, Scum would have won the next day because no one would have believed Pod wasn’t scum.

To clarify: at no point did I say you started the train against Bertie, just that you did a good job explaining why you voted.  CV is new, and the notion that quiet following is suspicious is probably new to him.  He certainly wouldn't learn that watching Pod.

You have been consistent. You really have. But hey, lets examine your reasoning. Because it is ******* terrible.

Yeah, thats hilarious, and flattering, but also not an actual reason. 

Again, an effort to use my reputation as a skilled player as justification, on its own, for killing me.

In case we thought he was maybe joking, he actually voted on it. The quotes above are the sum total of his arguments against me. Lets kill Mad because when hes a scum player, hes a good player. Look, if you wanna policy vote me because you’re scared, fine, but do it D-1 when its a ******* crapshoot anyway. But after that, you play the game you’re in.

Well, we know Cal was scum. Given your “arguments” against me, which at this point I’m hypothesising was just sewing seeds, it’s looking pretty ******* believable that it was, indeed, an all town push.

Here I am, pointing out what a terrible argument that is, and why he would make it in the moment. At this point, the magnifying glass is on Cal.

If something is unlikely, it's unlikely.  Saying "yeah, but what if we did roll double sixes?" is not a rebuttal.  And scum not joining the train was pretty unlikely (recent events change that, of course.)

Here he is trying to convince us not to hammer Caldias, now a confirmed scum. 

Yep.  That was an error on my part.  At the time, I was concerned Caldias might not be scum, and I was pretty sure you were.  We couldn't afford to be wrong.  The strength of the train on Cal concerned me too.

Matt, now dead, pointing this out.

Matt, NOW DEAD.

What case?! Your case is that you’re scared of the boogeyman. I do love the “smarter kill earlier in the game argument” tho, its like saying “here’s how I f^cked up this game can you fix it for me?” But really folks, whats happening here is him trying to cash in on the fears he’s been stoking this whole game. And it answers its own question, I’m alive because who wants to lose to scum mad again, right? He ******* said it himself. But even if that weren’t the case, its a bad argument, in a game where the scum know that doc is a strong possibility, then if I’m a good N1 choice, I’m a bad N1 choice. Although in this game, assuming you aren’t playing the meta, then as someone who missed their chance to vote D1 I was a terrible N1 choice, which I feel like you know. And then Ebon was the logical N2 choice for scum since he was a confirmed cop.

Btw, how did you rule out CV? I  haven’t ruled out CV. The only person I’m sure of is Pod. I mean, this is rhetorical, I feel increasingly confident that you can say whatever because you know he’s not on your google doc.

Yep, that is my argument.  Look at it this way: I started out saying "hey if nobody better comes around, let's kill the guy hwo is most capable of quietly killing us."  As time went on (and yes, better options did appear in the form of Clon and Bertie) that guy didn't go away.  He stuck around, which only raises his odds of guilt.  That's also true of CV and me.  Well, I'm not going to vote myself.  And although CV has made a screwup or two, they're consistent both with a new player and/or his previous game (where he also overreacted about being a suspect.)    If you can give me a compelling reason to vote him, that changes things.  Barring new evidence, I need to pick between you two.  I'd feel okay losing to CV and learning he's much sneakier than I thought.  I wouldn't feel okay voting down a newbie so I can lose to a vet I get red flags about.  Which leaves you.  Don't just play to the game, play to the players.

********** pod, if I was scum you’d be dead. If CV followed me at that point he’d be following me onto Cal, you stoned putz. 

Yesterday, Pod and Jabba both wanted to kill me. Today, they are both alive. The crux of Jabba’s argument is what a great scum player I am, right? So lets assume I’m scum, I’m killing the ONE GUY who I had convinced I was town? And I’m simultaneously this amazing scum player?

The case against me is either fabricated (started the Bertie train), terribly reasoned (Good choice for N1 kill) or entirely meta. If we do not hang the scum, we lose this game. 

Now, I’m going to again look over CV to ensure there isnt something obvious I’m missing, and reread the thread to be sure I’m right about it, and then assuming I don’t find something, I’m going to come back and vote on Jabba. See you guys in the morning. 

Really?  "How can Mads be good at tricking people when the people dying all point to Jabba being such predictable scum?"  It's because you're willing to kill the one guy who has said he believes you that you are a great scum player.  Because you recognize a red herring, and are convinced you can use my past poor decision against me.

 

[Constantine Valdor 101]

Well this is a hard coin flip xD, I need a more experienced player, @PodRacer where u at 

[Madaghmire 7,274]

17 hours ago, Constantine Valdor said:

Dang, it's a coin flip now. Poor Matt :(, 2 games in a row.

I'll have to re read Mads and Jabba's post. I'm still intrigued with the potential good cop/ bad cop routine.
Mads did suggested the Bertie trains.

I just woke up this friday morning when you guys axed Cal around 4 in the morning, I would have voted Cal if he was L-1. I stated so last night under Pod's post before I slept

what are your thoughts Pod?

In my previois post, where I mentioned the point of my starting the Bertie train, i was referring to this.

[Madaghmire 7,274]

mmmlI really think its Jabba but there is a case against CV. 

Didn’t vote/say much of anything D1.

Follow vote on Bertie dropped him to L-1 with little in the way of independent reasoning.

No vote on Cal, now scum.

Additionally, there are arguments (mostly from pod) that I can’t be trusted because Cal and I would roll our partners in a sec, so adverse actions in game between us shouldn’t be esculpatory. I agree, with that, but if you take that as true, you also have to look carefully at who he was trying to roll on;

On 10/25/2018 at 12:20 PM, Caldias said:

CV is my top suspect.  I will ignore his long absences and say his vote on Bertie was just to follow whatever train was forming, which is a scum move.  He also reacted pretty strongly to me naming him a suspect.  He most definitely could be town, but he hasn't been playing like town IMO

This could be his push to roll.

On 10/25/2018 at 12:25 PM, PodRacer said:

Con likely is scum, but he's the scum that is getting sold down the river... 

Pod, at the time, seemed to agree.

On 10/25/2018 at 12:25 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

Remember he did the exact same thing last game too.  I think it’s just him learning the ropes, and given what we know I’d feel better killing a vet than new blood for the second time in a row.

And he didn’t even have to defend himself, so any information we might have gotten from that now voided. Also, the meta argument. This is a great reason not to vote someone D1. I hate voting new players D1 also. I want them to play. But when we’re at lylo, you vote based on the game. And if he did the exact same thing last game, its time to learn from it.

Additionally, my above post where he misatributes the Bertie trains origins. It could be, as Jabba suggests, simply a new player feeling his way through. I actually believe its probably the new player, primarily because I believe its Jabba, based on his completely unsubstantiated push on me, and they cant both be scum.

So,

##vote Jabbawookie

Pod, remember its important that you are the last voting player, as the only confirmed town its the only way we can be sure scum dont get a chance to turbo hammer.

[Madaghmire 7,274]

Wtf happened to the formating on that

[The Jabbawookie 5,610]

1 minute ago, Madaghmire said:

Wtf happened to the formating on that

When you copy and paste it comes out bold.  Omg Mads.  Stop yelling at us, total scumtell.

[The Jabbawookie 5,610]

But in all seriousness: playing to the players vs playing to the game is a trade off sometimes.  But they both matter, start to finish.  Caldias acts like Ebon an entire game?  I don’t care if he wasn’t voted D1, he’s going to draw attention regardless of whatever else he does.  What future reference this game gives about CV’s behavior may be interesting.  But short run, I’m willing to trust my gut on him.

[PodRacer 1,077]

8 hours ago, Constantine Valdor said:

Well this is a hard coin flip xD, I need a more experienced player, @PodRacer where u at 

Got a family wedding this evening so I'l likely vote tomorrow (or later whilst Drunk!)