bisento

[Avatar111 553]

i'm curious how a Bisento can be used as a one-handed weapon. it is probably heavier than all other polearms in the list.

[Shinjo Koetsu 37]

Maybe by "throwing" it forward while only holding the very back of the shaft? The momentum could carry it through, but then the heavy end would crash to the ground.

[Falendor 22]

14 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

i'm curious how a Bisento can be used as a one-handed weapon. it is probably heavier than all other polearms in the list.

It can only be wielded one handed by channeling your inner anime.

I don't have the book in front of me but I need to do an audit of what can and can't be used 1/2 handed.

[Shinjo Koetsu 37]

Would this even work with a Bisento?

[Avatar111 553]

thats a spear, the spear is not usable 1handed in the book, neither is the naginata. only the bisento is o_O

also, the knife being usable with 2 hands, when the scimitar and chokuto are not...

whatever  

Edited October 16, 2018 by Avatar111

[UnitOmega 2,818]

Might have been some confusion in editing? I had to look up the bisento and apparently there are differing descriptions, in some cases it describes a polearm in other cases a long sword. 

Or, if not an error of confusion, could just be a typo. FFG does not always have the best track record when it comes to proofing, especially small details in tables. 

[GM81 Protocol Droid 142]

Since it becomes range 1, I think the idea is the character holds it further up the haft to do short slashing motions using the butt as a lever and balance against the body. That is probably not realistic exactly realistic, but is something seen in fiction. Generally fiction trumps historical accuracy for L5R. IIRC that mid-haft hold was something done with the naginata and some shorter forms of yari, but it might have been associated with the bisento as well.

[Avatar111 553]

Or, they confused a bisento with a nagamaki.

[ExplodingJoe 131]

Another point in our Protocol Droid's corner is that popular fiction often depicts samurai-ko wielding knives two-handed.

[Avatar111 553]

14 minutes ago, ExplodingJoe said:

Another point in our Protocol Droid's corner is that popular fiction often depicts samurai-ko wielding knives two-handed.

 

 

[ExplodingJoe 131]

Hey, pop fiction loves dumb non-existent titles and bad but flashy martial arts. I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.

[Avatar111 553]

i just think this game was a bit; rushed, or done by newcomers to rpg design.

"as I sees 'em"

[ExplodingJoe 131]

While I don't believe that any core book avoids the necessity of errata, it is also a valid criticism of a product. 

I think they focused to strongly on trying to entice the existing L5R fan base, who they will never fully win over, and ran themselves short on time. The quick release of the Mantis as a free addition says to me that they either want to placate us, or have been rushing to create things to placate us, possibly at the expense of QC.

All the same, I think most of us will house rule that a heavy pole arm doesn't fly in a one-handed grip.

[Hida Jitenno 586]

But really, isn't "in immediate need of correction" just a feature of L5R roleplaying books at this point? Don't get me wrong, I love the setting and the various systems they've made, but really, I don't think there's a book out there that hasn't had typos called out Day One.

[AtoMaki 1,431]

11 minutes ago, ExplodingJoe said:

I think they focused to strongly on trying to entice the existing L5R fan base

They definitely did not really try this. 

[Avatar111 553]

yeah same goes with many schools having errors in their curriculums or starting techniques.

like theres definitely a "problem" with the technique Rushing Avalanche (usable with blunt weapons?) and then giving the technique to hiruma scouts and matsu berserker who dont start with blunt weapon.

stuff like that is just so jaw dropping.

[Avatar111 553]

does FFG have a good track record of releasing erratas ?

[KveldUlfr 75]

1 hour ago, ExplodingJoe said:

Another point in our Protocol Droid's corner is that popular fiction often depicts samurai-ko wielding knives two-handed.

As someone who practices Filipino knife fighting (I know, I know... not standard Samurai styles), I can say there are several movements and actions that rely on two hands for a knife strike, usually to provide extra leverage or force in certain situations. Most of them reply on a grip on the scales, and a palm wrap on the pommel to provide that extra oomph. 

Just as there are situations where it is best to use two knives. Heh.

[ExplodingJoe 131]

25 minutes ago, KveldUlfr said:

As someone who practices Filipino knife fighting (I know, I know... not standard Samurai styles), I can say there are several movements and actions that rely on two hands for a knife strike, usually to provide extra leverage or force in certain situations. Most of them reply on a grip on the scales, and a palm wrap on the pommel to provide that extra oomph. 

That's a really good counter point. I believe the intent behind the thrust they like to show in pop fiction is to show necessary force to puncture the sternum/rib cage, but I'll defer on its viability. All my fencing practice is European.

[GM81 Protocol Droid 142]

I've seen two handed knife grip in martial arts demonstrations before. A few Japanese knife styles have a fairly long hilt so some of the practices take that into account. So that isn't even limited to fiction.

Them having mixed aspects of the nagamaki and bisento up does appear to be a good explanation, and it should be easy to make that mental switch. I notice the bisento wasn't in the beta, otherwise it might have been caught and changed to nagamaki.

The final push on the book does feel a little rushed in some aspects. I wish they did one more round of the beta with the new curriculum rules and all of the schools to ferret out any oddities, since aspects that weren't in the beta appear to be the major point of issues.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the product and can make a few adjustments as needed. I understand if others find it frustrating. 

[Avatar111 553]

its not as much as frustration as slight disappointment. i'm not crazy, i understand typos. but a lot of this seems like they ran out of time at some point or the designers were in over their head or had some departures near the deadline.

[KveldUlfr 75]

23 minutes ago, ExplodingJoe said:

That's a really good counter point. I believe the intent behind the thrust they like to show in pop fiction is to show necessary force to puncture the sternum/rib cage, but I'll defer on its viability. All my fencing practice is European.

The puncture and bypassing sternum and ribs is definitely one thing, but it is also used as leverage to force itself through certain blocks even into more sensitive areas.

An example might be when you wield a knife with the blade facing the bottom of your hand. One strike is a strike to the center of the throat. There is a common, almost instinctive, block that is overpowered by application of the palm to the pommel of the blade that almost makes a sure strike certain.

It is just one example, but it is easier to do with a knife. Using a one handed bolo or sword in this manner is not really applicable. Which is why I can see allowing 2 handed knife, while still having one handed swords.

Still, I have no idea what the devs were thinking. But I am happy enough with that decision, none the less.

[GM81 Protocol Droid 142]

19 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

its not as much as frustration as slight disappointment. i'm not crazy, i understand typos. but a lot of this seems like they ran out of time at some point or the designers were in over their head or had some departures near the deadline.

I agree that it is the deadline issue, but also mixed with the self editing issue. It is very easy to overlook issues that you have already internalized, so without the larger group combing through the new material it is easy for those to be over looked. The number of issues seem on par with most RPG companies in my experience, of course some have done better.

Honestly, I wish companies would do a PDF release first as a sort of Gamma testing. Correct the big issues since it is easier to edit, then do the final formatting and getting the print book out. However, that would really slow the print release since that takes up so much time. Since the PDFs would be paid, that would resolve the worry of people getting too much for free. Either that or the time issue might be the reason we did not get a chance to beta test all schools.

[jmoschner 161]

19 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

a lot of this seems like they ran out of time at some point

They did run out of time on the open beta. It also appears most of the issues are with the things not put through the wringer in the open beta or changed after the beta.

[ExplodingJoe 131]

I'm curious for discussion sake. I'm not saying I believe or stand by it, but just on opinion. Would we actually consider a nagamaki to fall into the no-dachi family and use similar stats as presented there?