thestggrwng 312 Posted October 15, 2018 I think Luke and Wedge are a trap. They are both very good. I actually think Luke is the best Rebel ship. But the problem is that imperial ships are better. Scum ships are more action efficient. Named pilots on the rebel side are not the best or too expensive for what they do. A lot of the abilities would of worked in 1.0 because of how easy it was to stack tokens and actions. Now it is very difficult to keep my b wing stressed every round or to have a target lock focus for all my attacks. Looking at tournament lists Wedge and luke have the best abilities on a really solid chasis but they are not winning. Juke whisper with Vader on board, or defenders, or the incredibly cheap lambda, or the monstrous alpha strike of jonus bombers Make Rebels difficult to win with. I think it comes down to a numbers game and rebels are best served with a lack of expensive pilots and just straight points efficiency and that means 5 ships. Couple different options. 2x Grey squadron Y-wings with Ion turrets 3x Blue squadron X-wings (or 2x X-wings and 1x B-wings) Or 1x A wing with proton rocket 1x Ywing with ion turret 1x Y wing with proton torpedos and R4 astro for green turns (need the droid for losing stress from the reload) 2x X wings 4 ship option that has massive firepower 4x Y wings I3 with ion and veteran turret gunner. There are actually a lot more subtle different combinations but numbers and points efficiency seem to be the answer. Anyone else felt this to be the case? Every time I bring numbers to the table it overwhelms any kind of expensive single ships again because they can't stack defense on top of defense. Throwing 5 or more mostly focused shots will obliterate a lot out there. 4 1 Blademaster72, BenBot, Bucknife and 2 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenBot 155 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) I’ve always liked Rebel Five Ship lists! BBBBZ was one of my first favorite lists until I ran into Dash too many times... my first game of 2.0 I flew this and couldn’t believe I was able to fit 5 ships: Rebel Swarm UYYXX (43) Blue Squadron Scout (0) Pivot Wing (2) Jyn Erso Points 45 (32) Gray Squadron Bomber (4) Dorsal Turret Points 36 (32) Gray Squadron Bomber (4) Dorsal Turret Points 36 (41) Blue Squadron Escort (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 41 (41) Blue Squadron Escort (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 41 Total points: 199 Edited October 15, 2018 by BenBot 1 Hiemfire reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thestggrwng 312 Posted October 16, 2018 20 hours ago, BenBot said: I’ve always liked Rebel Five Ship lists! BBBBZ was one of my first favorite lists until I ran into Dash too many times... my first game of 2.0 I flew this and couldn’t believe I was able to fit 5 ships: Rebel Swarm UYYXX (43) Blue Squadron Scout (0) Pivot Wing (2) Jyn Erso Points 45 (32) Gray Squadron Bomber (4) Dorsal Turret Points 36 (32) Gray Squadron Bomber (4) Dorsal Turret Points 36 (41) Blue Squadron Escort (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 41 (41) Blue Squadron Escort (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 41 Total points: 199 Why Jyn Erso? Tactical officer is the same points and makes his coordinate white. Jyn erso gives someone an evade at the expense of a focus, but focus is infinitely more valuable in a list that wants to attack. The only reason you should evade is if you get it for free and already have a focus or target lock. These ships are not meant to be dodging shots. I personally don't like dorsal because of the 2 die attack. Ion gives me more dice to throw at 3 defense die ships. A focused shot from range 2 is averaging no damage with 2 dice and 1 damage with 3. Plus I love saving my ion shot for last because they desperately don't want to be ioned, that they won't spend the focus on defense from other shots helping to get more damage in. 2 Schu81 and BenBot reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Minimono 32 Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 5 Gray Squadron Bombers with R4 astromech and advanced proton torps. or 4 gray bombers with r4 astromech and advanced prot torps, snd AP-5 with leia for a free round of 4K and coordinate a reload, and the y-wing clear the stress right away with a 1 or 2 move since they activate after ap-5 .. Edited October 17, 2018 by Minimono Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterOnone 300 Posted October 17, 2018 On 10/15/2018 at 3:46 PM, thestggrwng said: 4 ship option that has massive firepower 4x Y wings I3 with ion and veteran turret gunner. I wouldn't say that has 'massive' firepower... You can get 4 Y-Wings with Proton Torpedoes, R4 Astromechs and Expert Handling using Dutch, Evaan and 2x Gold Squadron Veterans for greater firepower at 198pts... Or drop the EH, if you don't feel the white BR is helpful, and put Proton Bombs on the GSVs for a round 200 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thestggrwng 312 Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, DexterOnone said: I wouldn't say that has 'massive' firepower... You can get 4 Y-Wings with Proton Torpedoes, R4 Astromechs and Expert Handling using Dutch, Evaan and 2x Gold Squadron Veterans for greater firepower at 198pts... Or drop the EH, if you don't feel the white BR is helpful, and put Proton Bombs on the GSVs for a round 200 At range two and three, your list throws 16 dice. At range 1, 12 dice my golds will throw 8 dice at range 3, 20 dice at range 2 and 28 dice at range 1. Granted a good portion of that is ion but ion control lists that can saturate a field with ion tokens have a great follow up and can keep it at range 1 to maximize the ion effects. Also does not require a target lock on my opponent which can be tough to get when their initiative is over 4 (in your Dutch list) in the first engagement. Edited October 17, 2018 by thestggrwng Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DexterOnone 300 Posted October 17, 2018 Ok, so maybe 'firepower' was the wrong word... let's say damage potential instead. Simply counting up the red dice is a little simplistic, as it doesn't take account of the fact that your 7 dice per ship at range 1 is defended against as a 3 and a 4. Against a 3 agility ship the ions have 1 dice over at range 1, a 1 dice deficit at range 2 and a 2 dice deficit at range 3. The Protons, on the other hand, have dice parity at range 1 and a dice over at ranges 2 and 3. So overall the ions are 2 dice down, while the torpedoes are 2 dice up... a 4-dice advantage for pushing damage through - and a good chance of that being crits. My experience with ion cannons so far in 2.0 is that they're of limited effectiveness, rarely doing more than plinking through the occasional single damage. The last game I played involving ion cannons saw only 3 ion tokens applied all game... and they all came from disabled power regulator crits! Proton Torpedoes, on the other hand, are a veritable wrecking ball... 1 Bucknife reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thestggrwng 312 Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, DexterOnone said: Ok, so maybe 'firepower' was the wrong word... let's say damage potential instead. Simply counting up the red dice is a little simplistic, as it doesn't take account of the fact that your 7 dice per ship at range 1 is defended against as a 3 and a 4. Against a 3 agility ship the ions have 1 dice over at range 1, a 1 dice deficit at range 2 and a 2 dice deficit at range 3. The Protons, on the other hand, have dice parity at range 1 and a dice over at ranges 2 and 3. So overall the ions are 2 dice down, while the torpedoes are 2 dice up... a 4-dice advantage for pushing damage through - and a good chance of that being crits. My experience with ion cannons so far in 2.0 is that they're of limited effectiveness, rarely doing more than plinking through the occasional single damage. The last game I played involving ion cannons saw only 3 ion tokens applied all game... and they all came from disabled power regulator crits! Proton Torpedoes, on the other hand, are a veritable wrecking ball... I agree that 4 Y wings with protons are a wrecking ball. There is some disadvantage with the list though. Two rounds of shots that won't be fully moded generally, and then a red action to reload one charge. Once double tapping ions are in to range one, they generally stay in at range 1. There is a lot more sustained focused big shots and because a target lock is not required, you can shoot attacks of opportunity rather than have your opponent with the lock boost and/or barrel roll out of the way. They are two very different types of lists. I prefer the double tap options because I think it is easier to cycle targets around between the ships without having to worry about getting a lock on the correct ship I need to shoot. There is advantage in your list because at range three, you should be wrecking faces with little return fire to worry about. Both are viable lists and I think it really comes down to play style and which you enjoy flying more. I played the A,YI,YP, X,X list from my first post and the proton torpedo Y wing put the kill shot into two ships to win me two games but everyone is so afraid of that ion shot, they are scared to spend tokens in defense of other attacks. Both ships sufficiently pull their weight but they just fly very differently. It's one of the reasons, they Y wing is my favorite ship to fly. It can be so easily tailored to what the list needs and two Y-wings can fly vastly different depending on loadout. 1 Bucknife reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
intoxicatedALF 114 Posted October 18, 2018 I like the idea of a heavy swarm with as many 3 dice attack ships as possible. Recently i’ve Been thinking of 1 of these 2 lists: x4 Blue Squadron Escorts & Lt. Bout with 6pts upgrades (Homing Missiles?) OR x4 Blue Squadron Escorts & Zeb in an Attack Shuttle. Can add a 2pt crew like Jyn too. 2 BenBot and thestggrwng reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thestggrwng 312 Posted October 18, 2018 13 hours ago, intoxicatedALF said: I like the idea of a heavy swarm with as many 3 dice attack ships as possible. Recently i’ve Been thinking of 1 of these 2 lists: x4 Blue Squadron Escorts & Lt. Bout with 6pts upgrades (Homing Missiles?) OR x4 Blue Squadron Escorts & Zeb in an Attack Shuttle. Can add a 2pt crew like Jyn too. I like that second list a lot. Just a lot of firepower. 1 BenBot reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenBot 155 Posted October 20, 2018 Yea I’ve been trying to figure out what 5th ship I like best next to 4 X-Wings... A Hwk Rebel Scout fits with 4pts for upgrades... Or someone mentioned a Y-Wing w/Dorsal Turret fits at 200pts exactly! Or AP-5 with 6pts for upgrades?! 2 Bucknife and BlodVargarna reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mightybeard13 28 Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) This is the 5 ship I've been using lately, tons of fun to fly and a fair amount of offense. If all works out you can have 4 ships shooting with 4 dice in a turn. I had also been considering composure on Sabine. You could force a missed barrel roll or boost for a free focus and save your action for an evade. (28) Sabine Wren (1) Trick Shot Points 29 (30) Lieutenant Blount (2) Predator Points 32 (52) Wedge Antilles (6) R2 Astromech (0) Servomotor S-foils (6) Outmaneuver Points 64 (47) Garven Dreis (2) R4 Astromech (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 49 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 Total points: 197 Edited October 21, 2018 by Mightybeard13 1 BenBot reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlodVargarna 4,041 Posted October 21, 2018 What about 3 BSEs and 2 GSBs with ion canons? 3 BenBot, Gilarius and Minimono reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cwh008 32 Posted October 21, 2018 Sheathipede-class Shuttle - •AP-5 - 30 •AP-5 - Escaped Analyst Droid (30) TIE/ln Fighter - •Sabine Wren - 28 •Sabine Wren - Spectre-5 (28) RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 40 Green Squadron Pilot - (34) Outmaneuver (6) Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - Tala Squadron Pilot - 31 Tala Squadron Pilot - (25) Outmaneuver (6) RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 40 Green Squadron Pilot - (34) Outmaneuver (6) Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - Tala Squadron Pilot - 31 Tala Squadron Pilot - (25) Outmaneuver (6) Total: 200/200 View in the X-Wing Squad Builder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ficklegreendice 34,362 Posted October 21, 2018 Well, walking right into a trap ended up in the Rebels' favor during the battle over Endor So...into the trap we go! New Squadron (52) Wedge Antilles (0) Servomotor S-foils (2) Predator Points 54 (62) Luke Skywalker (6) Sense (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 68 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 Total points: 191 1 Minimono reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thestggrwng 312 Posted October 22, 2018 21 hours ago, BlodVargarna said: What about 3 BSEs and 2 GSBs with ion canons? That was my initial list in this post and I still think incredibly strong. 19 hours ago, cwh008 said: Sheathipede-class Shuttle - •AP-5 - 30 •AP-5 - Escaped Analyst Droid (30) TIE/ln Fighter - •Sabine Wren - 28 •Sabine Wren - Spectre-5 (28) RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 40 Green Squadron Pilot - (34) Outmaneuver (6) Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - Tala Squadron Pilot - 31 Tala Squadron Pilot - (25) Outmaneuver (6) RZ-1 A-wing - Green Squadron Pilot - 40 Green Squadron Pilot - (34) Outmaneuver (6) Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - Tala Squadron Pilot - 31 Tala Squadron Pilot - (25) Outmaneuver (6) Total: 200/200View in the X-Wing Squad Builder I feel like there is a lot out there with the type of agility that is going to just easily tank the shots from this list. Even with the out maneuver. Tie swarm gets away with it partly because they have the all purpose reroll with Howlrunner but even they struggle against 3 agility defensive ships. 16 hours ago, ficklegreendice said: Well, walking right into a trap ended up in the Rebels' favor during the battle over Endor So...into the trap we go! New Squadron (52) Wedge Antilles (0) Servomotor S-foils (2) Predator Points 54 (62) Luke Skywalker (6) Sense (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 68 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 Total points: 191 I just don't think you'll get much out of 3 bandits. 2 attack dice doesn't do much. I think you would get more out of 2 Blue squadrons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FriendofYoda 377 Posted October 22, 2018 Juke! (34) Green Squadron Pilot (4) Juke Points 38 (34) Green Squadron Pilot (4) Juke Points 38 (34) Green Squadron Pilot (4) Juke Points 38 (34) Gold Squadron Veteran (4) Dorsal Turret (7) Hotshot Gunner (2) R4 Astromech (1) Trick Shot Points 48 (34) Green Squadron Pilot (4) Juke Points 38 Total points: 200 Thoughts here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlodVargarna 4,041 Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, thestggrwng said: That was my initial list in this post and I still think incredibly strong. ??? 1 thestggrwng reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlodVargarna 4,041 Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, thestggrwng said: I just don't think you'll get much out of 3 bandits. 2 attack dice doesn't do much. I think you would get more out of 2 Blue squadrons. But then that’s not 5 ships. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roller of blanks 486 Posted October 22, 2018 How about some crits? Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - •Lieutenant Blount - 30 •Lieutenant Blount - Team Player (30) E-wing - •Gavin Darklighter - 71 •Gavin Darklighter - Bold Wingman (68) Fire-Control System (3) RZ-1 A-wing - •Arvel Crynyd - 39 •Arvel Crynyd - Green Leader (36) Intimidation (3) RZ-1 A-wing - Phoenix Squadron Pilot - 30 Phoenix Squadron Pilot - (30) RZ-1 A-wing - Phoenix Squadron Pilot - 30 Phoenix Squadron Pilot - (30) Total: 200/200 View in the X-Wing Squad Builder 1 thestggrwng reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thestggrwng 312 Posted October 22, 2018 5 hours ago, FriendofYoda said: Juke! (34) Green Squadron Pilot (4) Juke Points 38 (34) Green Squadron Pilot (4) Juke Points 38 (34) Green Squadron Pilot (4) Juke Points 38 (34) Gold Squadron Veteran (4) Dorsal Turret (7) Hotshot Gunner (2) R4 Astromech (1) Trick Shot Points 48 (34) Green Squadron Pilot (4) Juke Points 38 Total points: 200 Thoughts here? Not very positive. This is just my opinion and others may disagree, but the only reason to take the evade action is if you already have a focus. Since dual actions are incredibly tough to come by, the only ships that should be taking Juke are defenders and phantoms because they just inherently get the action. I see the combo you're trying to pull off, especially with the hot shot gunner but I have found with high agility maneuverable lists, you won't have all your ships pointing at the same target often and will only be getting about 2-3 shots on the same target. These guys just don't pump out the damage fast enough with a juke as the only offensive mod, that can be easily stripped by a higher PS ship shooting them first. I think 3 die attacks are the way to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thestggrwng 312 Posted October 22, 2018 4 hours ago, BlodVargarna said: But then that’s not 5 ships. True, but stacking multiple Z's without any way to massively increase their firepower in a blanket way just feels like a waste of points. 3 Z's won't pull their weight in a list. Most opponents will ignore them for the higher value targets in Wedge and Luke. A good 5 ship rebel list needs to have your opponent questioning which ship to shoot first. Each ship needs to have some kind of danger to it. If it only has a 2 die attack, it needs something else. That's why all my Y-wings have an ion turret for the 3rd attack die or a torpedo. Same with the A-wing. I won't run a naked A wing because it is not worth the points despite it being a great blocker. I need my opponent to feel like he needs to shoot it despite not wanting to. That's why a I1 A wing with a procket is great. You can't leave it out in front of you to fire that procket but you can't just let it get it off. X-wings are solid on their own without any need for upgrading. solid attack and maneuvering at a cost effective price. It's why I question the B-wing. The X-wing does everything I want the B-wing to do but cheaper. 2 BlodVargarna and Schu81 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thestggrwng 312 Posted October 23, 2018 Another Idea in using 5 ships. I generally like to make every ship offensive in some manner but coordinate is really good on AP 5 AP-5 Grey with ion Grey with proton torp 2x Blue Squadron X 9 points. What do I spend it on? I've thought Leia? R4 on the torpedo Y and up it to a gold to help with getting a target lock, Proton Bomb on the ion Y? Any thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan Gabel 13 Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) After being disappointed with all my 3 and 4 ship builds, I have to say I really like this 5 ship. I don't like using generic pilots, but I'm okay using one. Also, I wanted to have all 3 dice primary guns. Blount usually gets the extra die given I have five ships. Norra is hard to kill once she gets in for R1 ion turret shots. Sabine is just an insanely good value getting focus, Evade, and reposition every turn. Crackshot works great on Arvel since he gets bullseye almost every time he's touching a ship and shooting. Only flew it once, but it felt really good. T-65 X-wing - Cavern Angels Zealot - 41 Cavern Angels Zealot - (41) Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0) Attack Shuttle - •Sabine Wren - 40 •Sabine Wren - Spectre-5 (38) Debris Gambit (2) RZ-1 A-wing - •Arvel Crynyd - 37 •Arvel Crynyd - Green Leader (36) Crack Shot (1) Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - •Lieutenant Blount - 31 •Lieutenant Blount - Team Player (30) Crack Shot (1) BTL-A4 Y-wing - •Norra Wexley - 51 •Norra Wexley - Gold Nine (43) Expert Handling (2) Ion Cannon Turret (6) Total: 200/200View in the X-Wing Squad Builder Edited October 29, 2018 by Jonathan Gabel 1 thestggrwng reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullox 857 Posted October 29, 2018 On 10/21/2018 at 5:01 PM, ficklegreendice said: Well, walking right into a trap ended up in the Rebels' favor during the battle over Endor So...into the trap we go! New Squadron (52) Wedge Antilles (0) Servomotor S-foils (2) Predator Points 54 (62) Luke Skywalker (6) Sense (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 68 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot Points 23 Total points: 191 How about this slight variation of your list: (52) Wedge Antilles (2) R4 Astromech (1) Crackshot (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 55 (62) Luke Skywalker (2) R4 Astromech (3) Heightened Perception (0) Servomotor S-foils Points 67 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot (3) Homing Missiles Points 26 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot (3) Homing Missiles Points 26 (23) Bandit Squadron Pilot (3) Homing Missiles Points 26 Total points: 200 1 thestggrwng reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
