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Batterskull

I Have A Bad Feeling About This...As Usual (FFGs Lack of Support for Destiny)

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I started buying the first FFG product more than a decade ago and played a lot of their LCGs pretty heavily. Building growing communities and keep their player base in the game was always their weakness. That Infigured the hard way after buying heavily into some card games, just to realize that everyone in my local community was about to quit. They surely didn‘t learn a lot the last ten years how to get good (or professional) in Organized Play & Product Management. Even the beloved and extremly successful Netrunner got almost ruined because of bad decisions, not sufficent care for the players and product and lack of communication (yes, it‘s dead now for other reasons, although knowing FFGs track record, I‘m extremly wary in blaming WotC alone for that).

Competitve games by FFG (despite what they’re telling you have usual a two year span where the community is quite healthy and humming. This has a lot to do with a heavy marketing focus on that product in the first year. After that, they usually reduce their attached resources and start to hype their next big thing, like right now, X-Wing 2.0 or Keyforge.

Regarding Destiny, there was basically radio silence for more than a month.

But Now!

Now we got a couple of spoilers and an uncertain release date for November. Sounds great, right?

Except that Keyforge is rolling in in mid november and boy, they do some pretty cool special events for that game, just go and read the latest Keyforge news to see what I‘m talking about. No one will talk about the new Destiny set in November.

So, why didn‘t Destiny got some cool prerelease events announced? Why does X-Wing 2.0 and Keyforge get news and articles on a weekly basis and Destiny got nothing for a couple of weeks? Because they frankly don‘t care anymore. They have already reduced their commitment to the game. This game is not dead by any means but don‘t expect to get more than another cycle of sets.

I‘m sure their currently working on their next best thing which will probably crush the Keyforge / X-Wing 2.0 player base then.

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True to every word. Combination of bad decisions, underpaid / overworked designers and their usual business plans.

Designers are all over the place on multiple games, their OP support is very bad and their products are expensive. Many people have noted and voiced their concerns similar to yours, but are often outvoiced by fanboys who see absolutely nothing wrong with FFG business model and casually throw around the "entire lcg collection is cheaper than T1 Magic deck" as an argument to everything.

I am almost done with FFG, which is a shame because they make awesome games with stunning art i want to enjoy, but can't.

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What's unfortunate is this game is actually getting much better as FFG is figuring out how to properly balance things as well as make more and more interesting characters. It's not perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than the first year of the game. 

We once had a large community here in Louisville, KY but it has shrunk quite a bit. A couple of weeks ago I had 8 people for a Prequel Theme night, which was more we have had in awhile. And then after that, I had two and three people on the following weeks. I know a lot of the bigger local players have already sold out, but there are still people around that would play. But, due to poor marketing and info from FFG, the game is on a downward spiral. And I'm actually excited about Keyforge, but I should really be very cautious since FFG is behind. To be fair, any new game struggles when up against Magic, Pokemon, and Yu-Gi-Oh.

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without wanting to be a negative nancy, it's been almost impossible to find a regular game lately and just last week I had a "welp, maybe I should sell my collection thought when I realized I hadn't found a game in almost 2 months".

 

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10 hours ago, Bojanglez said:

without wanting to be a negative nancy, it's been almost impossible to find a regular game lately and just last week I had a "welp, maybe I should sell my collection thought when I realized I hadn't found a game in almost 2 months".

 

If everyone who had that problem showed up to their local gaming store (which hopefully has a bulletin board for these types of things) and posted a note that says "Looking for players", there would be a lot more games being played. Try it - maybe you can get a weekly Destiny night going at the store.

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I firmly believe that Star Wars Destiny is one of the best card games ever made, that no one plays and I really blame the business model for this game.

There are basically 2 core issues.

1.  Misunderstanding of the Audience.   I'm sorry but Destiny should not be targeted as a competitive CCG and it should have never been marketed that way.  This is a fun, casual, light hearted dice game.  It has dice, it's pretty, it's Star Wars, it's quite literally a mass market game if you make the business model approachable.  It should have been directed towards a much wider audience then elite collectors looking for competitive play.   I know so many people who are not gamers who come to my house, want to play "one of my games", I put out Destiny and it's an instant hit.  Then they ask "where can I buy it" and I explain to them the concept of a CCG, show them the cost... and conversation over.  Just a swing and miss in the direction of this game, it should have never been a CCG.

2. Cost vs. functional design.  Even as a fan of many collectable games, Destiny even with my shrimpy sized collection in which I have maybe 50% of the content, this is the single most expensive game I own by a very wide margin and that includes my Lord of the Rings LCG, X-Wing, Armada and Legion.  Now I'm not saying its expensive to buy individual boosters or packs, what I'm talking about is collecting to "functional status".  The design is such that you have to both collect cards and dice, but also "heroes & Villains" and its in the collection of these character cards and dice where much of the game falls apart.  I have a crap ton of cards, but a very small amount of heroes and out of a collection of over hundreds of cards I have 5 heroes for which I have two dice for and having 2 dice for a hero is typically the functional point (or use point) of a character.  With some exceptions, generally you need to have 2 copies of a character to use him in a deck in anything approaching a reasonably competitive deck.  Now I'm sure people will argue to the contrary and I recognize that there are exceptions but a deck built around 2 dice is not effective and combining 3 heroes to make a 3 dice deck trims the options dramatically.  What it boils down to is despite having spent 400 dollars the vast majority of my collection goes unused as I have 4 30 card decks that are what I would call "functional".

This design model is very discouraging.  I have bought 4 super booster boxes and I still don't really have much of a collection to work with.

These two issues are only now being felt as players realize that each time a new expansion comes out, you are going to have to spend a 2-3 hundred dollars to collect even half of what you need to make a workable deck from that set and as the release is made, one of your set is dubbed "obsolete" which just adds salt to the wound.  So you have a two prong problem.  On the competitive side, it's expensive and difficult to collect to functionality, while on the casual side the same cost and difficulty are road blocks to entry.

The end result is you have to wonder, who is the audience here?  Who are they expecting will buy into Destiny today with already several sets out, the collection of each set requiring 2-3 hundred dollars each.  

 

Edited by BigKahuna

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Well the problem is Destiny did have game nights going and those have died out. Once a game loses critical mass, it is dead in the water. People don't want to show up because they know people won't show up, What is needed is special events people will show up to because the event itself is so cool they know people will show up to it. A store championship is a good example. Once you build up the critical mass, then the game nights happen. That type of game support must come from FFG and I don't think they even realize they need to be doing those things.

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14 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

I firmly believe that Star Wars Destiny is one of the best card games ever made, that no one plays and I really blame the business model for this game.

There are basically 2 core issues.

1.  Misunderstanding of the Audience.   I'm sorry but Destiny should not be targeted as a competitive CCG and it should have never been marketed that way.  This is a fun, casual, light hearted dice game.  It has dice, it's pretty, it's Star Wars, it's quite literally a mass market game if you make the business model approachable.  It should have been directed towards a much wider audience then elite collectors looking for competitive play.   I know so many people who are not gamers who come to my house, want to play "one of my games", I put out Destiny and it's an instant hit.  Then they ask "where can I buy it" and I explain to them the concept of a CCG, show them the cost... and conversation over.  Just a swing and miss in the direction of this game, it should have never been a CCG.

2. Cost vs. functional design.  Even as a fan of many collectable games, Destiny even with my shrimpy sized collection in which I have maybe 50% of the content, this is the single most expensive game I own by a very wide margin and that includes my Lord of the Rings LCG, X-Wing, Armada and Legion.  Now I'm not saying its expensive to buy individual boosters or packs, what I'm talking about is collecting to "functional status".  The design is such that you have to both collect cards and dice, but also "heroes & Villains" and its in the collection of these character cards and dice where much of the game falls apart.  I have a crap ton of cards, but a very small amount of heroes and out of a collection of over hundreds of cards I have 5 heroes for which I have two dice for and having 2 dice for a hero is typically the functional point (or use point) of a character.  With some exceptions, generally you need to have 2 copies of a character to use him in a deck in anything approaching a reasonably competitive deck.  Now I'm sure people will argue to the contrary and I recognize that there are exceptions but a deck built around 2 dice is not effective and combining 3 heroes to make a 3 dice deck trims the options dramatically.  What it boils down to is despite having spent 400 dollars the vast majority of my collection goes unused as I have 4 30 card decks that are what I would call "functional".

This design model is very discouraging.  I have bought 4 super booster boxes and I still don't really have much of a collection to work with.

These two issues are only now being felt as players realize that each time a new expansion comes out, you are going to have to spend a 2-3 hundred dollars to collect even half of what you need to make a workable deck from that set and as the release is made, one of your set is dubbed "obsolete" which just adds salt to the wound.  So you have a two prong problem.  On the competitive side, it's expensive and difficult to collect to functionality, while on the casual side the same cost and difficulty are road blocks to entry.

The end result is you have to wonder, who is the audience here?  Who are they expecting will buy into Destiny today with already several sets out, the collection of each set requiring 2-3 hundred dollars each.  

 

Bingo on point 2. I know people hate this, its been said other places before and been bashed down, but fucntionally the structure of the game would of worked better as a LCG. 60$ Starter, all cards are 2 ofs in the starter except characters which are all 2 dice or 2 copies if generics, and 40-50 dollar Faction packs, Force Villians/Military Heros including 2 of every card for that color and alignment, 2 dice for Elite characters instead of two copies.

 

Id bet the decision to make it a CCG was Disney/Asmodee as the games very structure screams LCG and I bet FFG wanted it that way.

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Regardless of how the game is structured, it has to have replayability to sustain a community.  Destiny just doesn't have that, and I think that's because the game as designed is not really that deep.  Each set, it hasn't taken long for the community to arrive at a "winning" meta.  In effect, each new set is "solved" too quickly, and the solutions are not varied enough to provide a deep, replayable competitive game to sustain a community.  There's hype when a new set is revealed, testing starts long before the street date, and the new meta is already well into formation by the time people actually get their cards and dice.  

I go back to my first games of Destiny, which were tight, close games where strategy and timing were crucial to winning.  At the time I last played, most games were won or lost in how you built your deck.  

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12 hours ago, GamerGuy1984 said:

Bingo on point 2. I know people hate this, its been said other places before and been bashed down, but fucntionally the structure of the game would of worked better as a LCG. 60$ Starter, all cards are 2 ofs in the starter except characters which are all 2 dice or 2 copies if generics, and 40-50 dollar Faction packs, Force Villians/Military Heros including 2 of every card for that color and alignment, 2 dice for Elite characters instead of two copies.

 

Id bet the decision to make it a CCG was Disney/Asmodee as the games very structure screams LCG and I bet FFG wanted it that way.

I was a huge fan of the LCG model first but tbh after playing most of FFGs releases in that category I started to hate it, at least for dueling card games. It works ok for coop. 

Take Netrunner, you missed the first 2 years and decide to play it competitively. You have to buy A LOT of big box expansions and small packs if you‘re also into deck building. If you want to provide multiple competitve decks for your gaming group then you have to buy several packs twice or more times (just to get that one elemental card which slots in basically every deck, like Jackson Howard as an example). I usually spent around $1000 - 1200 on LCGs that were in their 3rd or 4th year. LCGs are equally expensive as known CCGs like MTG if you‘re serious about your hobby.

I prefer the CCG model for games like Destiny (but I do think they should have used another card distribution: 6 cards - 1 rare/legendary, 2 uncommons, 3 commons), you can buy packs for draft or buy singles for the decks you want to build. The single market of a CCG is quite the upside for me. That means, I can buy 10 copies of Overconfidence for 0,10 Cents and don‘t have to buy 5 packs of expansion x for $10 each if it were an LCG. New players also have it way easier to enter the game, they just need to look what kinds of decks they want to play and simply buy all the needed singles and can expand from there.

I strongly disagree with the previous poster. The meta changed a lot in the past few months, even without a change in the card pool. The game is deep enough but there aren‘t enough big events out there to let it truly shine. 

Like I said in my first post. FFGs Organized Play department, the Marketing  department and the overall business strategy of the company is to blame here. There you‘ll find the reason why the player base shrinks and why we have a low influx of new players.

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9 hours ago, Batterskull said:

Like I said in my first post. FFGs Organized Play department, the Marketing  department and the overall business strategy of the company is to blame here. There you‘ll find the reason why the player base shrinks and why we have a low influx of new players.

I am getting the impression (From my FLGS and a comment from Team Covenant) that the new set will be on sale from the 8th, which is right on top of the KeyForge release events. I think your reason here is sound.

 

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Yeah, there are two sets on sale. They were way over published based on numbers from release of the game. This game as hot as can be upon release and quickly fell to not much interest at all. FFG probably lost their shirt on this game. They dramatically increased production capacity only to not really need it after they got it all set up. Now they hardly care about destiny. We'll see at least one more complete cycle at least though, maybe two before they shut it down.

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I don't know.  Just because it has slowed down doesn't mean it's about to die.

But I do think FFG is not supporting it like they should.  Too many products.  Too many irons in the fire.  They are all about X-Wing and Keyforge right now.  I'm excited about Keyforge too.  But they are really selling Destiny short right now.

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On 10/25/2018 at 4:47 PM, Batterskull said:

I was a huge fan of the LCG model first but tbh after playing most of FFGs releases in that category I started to hate it, at least for dueling card games. It works ok for coop. 

Take Netrunner, you missed the first 2 years and decide to play it competitively. You have to buy A LOT of big box expansions and small packs if you‘re also into deck building. If you want to provide multiple competitve decks for your gaming group then you have to buy several packs twice or more times (just to get that one elemental card which slots in basically every deck, like Jackson Howard as an example). I usually spent around $1000 - 1200 on LCGs that were in their 3rd or 4th year. LCGs are equally expensive as known CCGs like MTG if you‘re serious about your hobby.

I prefer the CCG model for games like Destiny (but I do think they should have used another card distribution: 6 cards - 1 rare/legendary, 2 uncommons, 3 commons), you can buy packs for draft or buy singles for the decks you want to build. The single market of a CCG is quite the upside for me. That means, I can buy 10 copies of Overconfidence for 0,10 Cents and don‘t have to buy 5 packs of expansion x for $10 each if it were an LCG. New players also have it way easier to enter the game, they just need to look what kinds of decks they want to play and simply buy all the needed singles and can expand from there.

I strongly disagree with the previous poster. The meta changed a lot in the past few months, even without a change in the card pool. The game is deep enough but there aren‘t enough big events out there to let it truly shine. 

Like I said in my first post. FFGs Organized Play department, the Marketing  department and the overall business strategy of the company is to blame here. There you‘ll find the reason why the player base shrinks and why we have a low influx of new players.

I'm sure that is true to a degree for the tournament scene where you want a constantly changing meta, but Star Wars Destiny really doesn't have the mechanic chops to be a competitive game.  It's a very simple, light hearted card game that is played in 10 minutes.  It simply lacks the mechanical and strategic depth of a challenging competitive CCG which is why it's failing to produce good organized events and interest in the game by competitive players is waning. 

This game should have been marketed as a fun casual game and made into an LCG targeting the casual play base which notably is a thousand times larger than the competitive scene.

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5 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

I'm sure that is true to a degree for the tournament scene where you want a constantly changing meta, but Star Wars Destiny really doesn't have the mechanic chops to be a competitive game.  It's a very simple, light hearted card game that is played in 10 minutes.  It simply lacks the mechanical and strategic depth of a challenging competitive CCG which is why it's failing to produce good organized events and interest in the game by competitive players is waning. 

This game should have been marketed as a fun casual game and made into an LCG targeting the casual play base which notably is a thousand times larger than the competitive scene.

I would argue that the discrepancy between good players and worse players is hard to gauge. This game has depth, and worse players will get trounced without understanding why. That metagame, playing around mitigation and tempo, is not a 10 minute game unless you just play aggro.

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12 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

I'm sure that is true to a degree for the tournament scene where you want a constantly changing meta, but Star Wars Destiny really doesn't have the mechanic chops to be a competitive game.  It's a very simple, light hearted card game that is played in 10 minutes.  It simply lacks the mechanical and strategic depth of a challenging competitive CCG which is why it's failing to produce good organized events and interest in the game by competitive players is waning. 

This game should have been marketed as a fun casual game and made into an LCG targeting the casual play base which notably is a thousand times larger than the competitive scene.

I agree with Joey here. I have had players play "META" decks and they will still struggle against an experienced player even if they  are playing a T2 deck. In addition, I myself do not get as many games as I would like and when I face a match up that I am unfamiliar with I struggle more than I would with one that I have played many times.

The game has a deceptive amount of strategic depth and honestly people are still some what figuring out everything in the meta, while Snoke vehicle is the dominate force right now there are plenty of other decks that pop their heads up to challenge still.

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13 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

I'm sure that is true to a degree for the tournament scene where you want a constantly changing meta, but Star Wars Destiny really doesn't have the mechanic chops to be a competitive game.  It's a very simple, light hearted card game that is played in 10 minutes.  It simply lacks the mechanical and strategic depth of a challenging competitive CCG which is why it's failing to produce good organized events and interest in the game by competitive players is waning. 

This game should have been marketed as a fun casual game and made into an LCG targeting the casual play base which notably is a thousand times larger than the competitive scene.

Mechanic chops? The most competitive of CCGs is Magic and the system has zero mechanical chops. Such a simple, loose concept. Draw/land/play card, repeat. The mechanics are so simple the game degenerates into ways to break those mechanics or do something an infinite amount of times.

Same with Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokémon. Nothing shattering from a mechanical standpoint there. Throughout the history of CCGs, the complex have never really broken into mass play. Star Wars CCG by Decipher probably being the only one to get Magic-like popularity.

Destiny is right where it should be for a mass market type CCG. It just needs better organized play support and a dependable release schedule that adds to the meta at least every other month.

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1 minute ago, gokubb said:

Mechanic chops? The most competitive of CCGs is Magic and the system has zero mechanical chops. Such a simple, loose concept. Draw/land/play card, repeat. The mechanics are so simple the game degenerates into ways to break those mechanics or do something an infinite amount of times.

Same with Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokémon. Nothing shattering from a mechanical standpoint there. Throughout the history of CCGs, the complex have never really broken into mass play. Star Wars CCG by Decipher probably being the only one to get Magic-like popularity.

Destiny is right where it should be for a mass market type CCG. It just needs better organized play support and a dependable release schedule that adds to the meta at least every other month.

If Destiny was right were it should be for a mass market, the mass market would be picking it up and they simply are not.  I have bought everything I own at bargain bin prices.  Legacies and Empire at War are both on sale at half price on the FFG site and everything but the latest sets are on sale everywhere you look.   Destinies appeal is Star Wars, but that only gets people to buy the starter set, one that doesn't even give you the full game (20 card decks).  It shows off it's potential but the issue is in how the structure of the CCG works.

Consider this. 

I have bought the following so far.

Kylo Ren Starter 
Rey Starter
Luke Skywalker Starter
Boba Fett Starter
1x Awakenings Booster Box
2x Spirit of the Rebellion Booster Box
2x Empire at War Booster Box
1 x Legacies Booster Box
1x Rivals Draft Set

All together that retails for roughly $675 bucks give or take.  From those sets aside from the starter boxes which in some cases like Boba Fett and Luke comes with 2 copies of character cards and dice I have 4 characters that I have 2 dice for.  I definitely don't have anything even approaching the possibility of building a tournament/meta deck and I have a grand total of 3 decks which is right now all I can build realistically and they are what I would call "halfway decent".. good enough for a house game with friends.

Don't get me wrong I love my Destiny but if you can spend 600 bucks on a game and still not be able to play it competitively .. that is a problem for the competitive scene.. and it certainly acts as a major deterrent for casual players outside of the starter set.

What they should have done is always include 2 dice with every booster for each character.  That would have opened up deck building dramatically and made the game a lot more approachable.  I mean I have a lot of great heroes in my collection.. but most of them are really unoptimized unless you have 2 dice for them.  I mean go to Star Wars Destiny Deck builder and look at the decks people build.. 4 dice.. almost always.  The game is optimized and designed with that concept in mind.  The model for this CCG is really broken and you can blame that on the lack of organized play events and stuff like that but... trust me... its this.  This is why people are not pursing Destiny.

 

 

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4 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

If Destiny was right were it should be for a mass market, the mass market would be picking it up and they simply are not.  I have bought everything I own at bargain bin prices.  Legacies and Empire at War are both on sale at half price on the FFG site and everything but the latest sets are on sale everywhere you look.   Destinies appeal is Star Wars, but that only gets people to buy the starter set, one that doesn't even give you the full game (20 card decks).  It shows off it's potential but the issue is in how the structure of the CCG works.

Consider this. 

I have bought the following so far.

Kylo Ren Starter 
Rey Starter
Luke Skywalker Starter
Boba Fett Starter
1x Awakenings Booster Box
2x Spirit of the Rebellion Booster Box
2x Empire at War Booster Box
1 x Legacies Booster Box
1x Rivals Draft Set

All together that retails for roughly $675 bucks give or take.  From those sets aside from the starter boxes which in some cases like Boba Fett and Luke comes with 2 copies of character cards and dice I have 4 characters that I have 2 dice for.  I definitely don't have anything even approaching the possibility of building a tournament/meta deck and I have a grand total of 3 decks which is right now all I can build realistically and they are what I would call "halfway decent".. good enough for a house game with friends.

Don't get me wrong I love my Destiny but if you can spend 600 bucks on a game and still not be able to play it competitively .. that is a problem for the competitive scene.. and it certainly acts as a major deterrent for casual players outside of the starter set.

What they should have done is always include 2 dice with every booster for each character.  That would have opened up deck building dramatically and made the game a lot more approachable.  I mean I have a lot of great heroes in my collection.. but most of them are really unoptimized unless you have 2 dice for them.  I mean go to Star Wars Destiny Deck builder and look at the decks people build.. 4 dice.. almost always.  The game is optimized and designed with that concept in mind.  The model for this CCG is really broken and you can blame that on the lack of organized play events and stuff like that but... trust me... its this.  This is why people are not pursing Destiny.

 

 

This is not an example of flawed Mechanics of the game, but flawed distribution and promotion. A lack of mechanical chops would mean a lack of diversity in play within the card pool as a whole which the game does not suffer from. Your post was saying the game lacks the strategic depth of other games and that is simply not true, your example does nothing to prove your statement and simply proves a different problem altogether. The game has plenty of strategic depth, as far as cost, the singles market actually helps out a tremendous amount since you only need 2 of a card to have a complete set where as most games need 4. 

Ultimately the game functions wonderfully as a competitive game for highly competitive people, but with a huge market of competitive games (Magic being the biggest) a game like destiny needs to appeal to a more casually competitive bunch and its failure is not in its mechanical or strategic depth as you claim, but rather its distribution is to costly for the competitive casuals this game should be attracting. Anyway just my 2 cents take it or leave it.

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10 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

If Destiny was right were it should be for a mass market, the mass market would be picking it up and they simply are not.  I have bought everything I own at bargain bin prices.  Legacies and Empire at War are both on sale at half price on the FFG site and everything but the latest sets are on sale everywhere you look.   Destinies appeal is Star Wars, but that only gets people to buy the starter set, one that doesn't even give you the full game (20 card decks).  It shows off it's potential but the issue is in how the structure of the CCG works.

Consider this. 

I have bought the following so far.

Kylo Ren Starter 
Rey Starter
Luke Skywalker Starter
Boba Fett Starter
1x Awakenings Booster Box
2x Spirit of the Rebellion Booster Box
2x Empire at War Booster Box
1 x Legacies Booster Box
1x Rivals Draft Set

All together that retails for roughly $675 bucks give or take.  From those sets aside from the starter boxes which in some cases like Boba Fett and Luke comes with 2 copies of character cards and dice I have 4 characters that I have 2 dice for.  I definitely don't have anything even approaching the possibility of building a tournament/meta deck and I have a grand total of 3 decks which is right now all I can build realistically and they are what I would call "halfway decent".. good enough for a house game with friends.

Don't get me wrong I love my Destiny but if you can spend 600 bucks on a game and still not be able to play it competitively .. that is a problem for the competitive scene.. and it certainly acts as a major deterrent for casual players outside of the starter set.

What they should have done is always include 2 dice with every booster for each character.  That would have opened up deck building dramatically and made the game a lot more approachable.  I mean I have a lot of great heroes in my collection.. but most of them are really unoptimized unless you have 2 dice for them.  I mean go to Star Wars Destiny Deck builder and look at the decks people build.. 4 dice.. almost always.  The game is optimized and designed with that concept in mind.  The model for this CCG is really broken and you can blame that on the lack of organized play events and stuff like that but... trust me... its this.  This is why people are not pursing Destiny.

Have you actually tried playing at a local store tournament? You don't have to be a top tier/meta player to have a good time, or even to win 50% of your games. When I first started with this game two months ago, I spent $14 to get two of the Two Player Game when they were stupidly cheap on Amazon, showed up to a local store tournament, and went 2-2 with my Rey/Poe deck. Luck played a pretty big role there, but that also shows that it really doesn't take as much as you seem to think to make a deck that can do ok in a minor, local competition.

I think the bigger problem is your buying strategy. You've bought 6 booster boxes and spent $600, and you complain that you only have 2 dice for 4 characters. If you'd focused on a smaller number of sets instead of spreading out over 4 of them, you would have done better getting multiple copies of the same character. More importantly, many rare singles are stupidly cheap. Sure, there are legendary cards like Yoda and Snoke selling for $50, but there are literally dozens of characters available for $1, or sometimes even less, along with many other rare cards that cheap.

I get a lot of cards just from playing in draft, and get booster packs as tourney prizes, but other than that, I just buy singles, no booster packs. I've picked up dozens of rare cards for $3 or less, including some as cheap as 50 cents. Ironically, the most expensive card I've bought as a single so far is an uncommon - Force Illusion.

I score about  50% in constructed deck tournaments, and slightly better than that in draft. As a new player who has spent half as much on this game as you, I've played 2 die copies of 5 different characters in my tournament games since that first one, so I'm not even counting the Rey and Poe from the Two Player starter in that.

The hard part for me is breaking past that tier 2/average store tourney player level and getting up to the level of top level competition. I already know that would probably require spending a ton of money catching up on the best cards from older sets. All the packs I've opened in draft and prize packs have been from Legacies and Way of the Force, so I already have pretty good collections of those. I'm also planning to finally buy a booster box when the new set comes out in two weeks. I'm hoping I'll be ready for when the 3 older sets get eliminated from standard tournaments, and I can break into that next level. In the mean time, I'm having fun coming up with some tier 2 deck ideas that work well enough to go 50% at local tournies.

 

Edited by Fromper

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We will have to agree to disagree when it comes to the mechanical depth of Destiny.  50% of the card pool is “remove a die, reroll a die or change die” in. Hundred different ways.  That’s not diversity, that’s a game with an extremely limited design space.  Destiny is a fun game, but it’s strategic depth is extremely limited especially considering how many sets are out already.  It’s business model is at its core to blame for the inability to maintain an audience long term.

Also, like the overwhelming majority of people who play games, I have no interest in playing with strangers at the local game store nor fuss about with the 3rd party markets.

Edited by BigKahuna

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20 minutes ago, BigKahuna said:

We will have to agree to disagree when it comes to the mechanical depth of Destiny.  50% of the card pool is “remove a die, reroll a die or change die” in. Hundred different ways.  That’s not diversity, that’s a game with an extremely limited design space.  Destiny is a fun game, but it’s strategic depth is extremely limited especially considering how many sets are out already.  It’s business model is at its core to blame for the inability to maintain an audience long term.

Also, like the overwhelming majority of people who play games, I have no interest in playing with strangers at the local game store nor fuss about with the 3rd party markets.

I honestly don‘t know what you actually expect from the game? If the game hasn‘t the depth for you and you dislike to play tournaments or buying singles from „strangers“, then just buy the two player set and or a couple of starter sets and be content.

 

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2 hours ago, Batterskull said:

I honestly don‘t know what you actually expect from the game? If the game hasn‘t the depth for you and you dislike to play tournaments or buying singles from „strangers“, then just buy the two player set and or a couple of starter sets and be content.

 

I don’t expect anything from it now, the conversation is about what FFG should have done to make the game suistanable and approachable by a larger audience and I link that to the main topic of lack of organized play support which I don’t believe is the cause of a lack of events, but rather the other way around, a lack of players has resulted in a reduction of support of tournament play and it’s lack of strategic depth, poor business model are the cause of a reduced player base.  My point however is that Destiny is a light, fun game and had they targeted a wider audience with a more approachable model, they wouldn’t be in the situation they are now.  I think the game is good and marketed towards the right sector of gamers it would be wildly popular.  Instead they tried to make this a CCG for competitive tournament play hoping to cash in on that group of player, failing to realize that the game doesn’t have the chops to attract such players.

Edited by BigKahuna

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