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ForceM

The A-wing is where they dropped the ball

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The a wing will be all right once it's expansion drops for 2.0. you will get a new tycho with iniative 5 and either the same ability or a new one. Until then yeah they are pretty meh, just like b-wings.

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3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Well, considering the A-Wing is probably going to be the next Rebel ship to be re-released along with new pilots, is it really too much to ask to wait and see what FFG have planned for it?

Maybe... or not. And yes, i woukd have preferred that they make it good right from the start. They did it with other ships, why not with this one?

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3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

That's because the A-wing had and still has one of the best dials in the game.  It didn't need improvement!  It still doesn't.  

I don't know why everyone gets so caught up on the Init race.  You don't need a high init to work.  It's just a crutch to correct the mistakes you make when planning.  There should be only a couple Init 6 for each faction and the A-wing shouldn't have anyone there.  Also, you don't need Init 5 to make it work. 

I use a Green Squadron with Clusters as a great flanker and formation disrupter.  I usually give him Daredevil to make him a right pain in the butt.  He can zip up and flank people to get shots they never expected.  The only downside to Daredevil is he can't TL and hard turn.  That's why I like Dutch in the list.  

A-wings are fantastic flankers.  Get them to a spot on the sides that will give them a good field of vision and if anyone wants to go for them, they put themselves in a bad position to go for you.   Even if you sacrifice an A-wing while the rest of your list kills/cripples the rest of their list, it's worth it.  It's a cheap ship that can usually last pretty well with just a Focus for self-defense (or a good enough dial to get out of the way).  

Example:  My opponent likes to fly a list with 3 Z-95's, Gavin Darklighter E-wing, and a HWK.  It's a nasty list that does more than you think it would as all those crits starts to add up.  If he flies a loose formation it can be a bit brutal if he gets you in the crosshairs.  My list of two X-wings, Dutch, and above Green Squadron A-wing would have a hard time if I flew right at him.  I set up so the A-wing was on the flank and the others looked like they would joust.  Instead, the A-wing 5 Straight and Boost for 2 rounds to get on their flank while one X and the Y went up the other flank.  X in the middle slow rolled.  The A-wing with Cluster Missile really disrupted his formation and strategy as he had to send the HWK to deal with it.  It allowed me to blast the Z-95's with the rest of my list and take away the strength of lots of cheap shots getting crits in.  I lost the A-wing due to horrible green dice (out of 6 green dice I only got one evade), but he did his job and broke up the enemy formation.

This is plain wrong. I don’t mean the example, but the Initiative thing of course.

The initiative race is still there and more than ever. People take gigantic bids to move last right now. More than i have ever seen them do in 1st.

And the first tournaments show us that aces lists are still top tier. There are also generic and swarm lists doing well but it’s mainly T-95s and Quadjumpers.

So i got to laugh when i hear that A-Wings are the supreme blockers. Well, no apparently not, or you would see them played.

And for missile play, they’d need high Initiative again.

With your logic, what if we gave Soontir and Fenn I4 too, since high Initiative is overrrated anyway. I would not want to see the reaction to that. And then we tell people to wait for the first expacs to fix the issue. You would like that for sure.

Edited by ForceM

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Problem here is high I is just easiest to run for multiple games. Much easier to pilot arcdodgers into good mov than swarms

If you want to actually use the A, here's a good start: 

Does Blocking Matter?

(38) Sabine Wren
Points 38

(36) Arvel Crynyd
(3) Intimidation
Points 39

(52) Wedge Antilles
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(2) Predator
Points 54

(62) Luke Skywalker
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(6) Sense
Points 68

Total points: 199

 

**** initiative bids, just block and kill

Arvel is probably THE best blocker because he can shoot at range 0 while the enemy can't. This and intimidation makes it worth bumping even boba with his ability + Han normally ignoring the consequences for bumping 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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49 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Problem here is high I is just easiest to run for multiple games. Much easier to pilot arcdodgers into good mov than swarms

If you want to actually use the A, here's a good start: 

Does Blocking Matter?

(38) Sabine Wren
Points 38

(36) Arvel Crynyd
(3) Intimidation
Points 39

(52) Wedge Antilles
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(2) Predator
Points 54

(62) Luke Skywalker
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(6) Sense
Points 68

Total points: 199

 

**** initiative bids, just block and kill

Arvel is probably THE best blocker because he can shoot at range 0 while the enemy can't. This and intimidation makes it worth bumping even boba with his ability + Han normally ignoring the consequences for bumping 

I actually ran something very alike, but with a generic A-Wing.

Then i replaced the A-Wing for two proton Torps, supernatural reflexes and Juke on Sabine.

Which improved the list by a lot. The Torps blew everything out of the Water and Luke with Reflexes is a different animal.

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16 minutes ago, Andreu said:

There is still time for FFG to release a Ace pilot for the A-Wing, along with the 2.0 rerelease.

 we might still see Tycho in a future A-wing expansion. could just be they hadn't worked out what new ability to give him. heck, maybe we'll get lucky and get him with both A-wing and X-wing versions, the way we have Garven Dreis in both an X-wing and an ARC-170.

Edited by mithril2098

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9 hours ago, ForceM said:
 

It is an Ace platform gosh dangit. And they force it into a support and blocking role. It’s not bad at blocking admittedly, but an iconic ship like this needs a high PS (5 since 6 would be wishing too much) Ace with a selfish ability. If you wanna dumpster Tycho, that’s a decision, but then call him John Doe and give him any self-enhancing ability instead if you must, but give the A-Wing a worthy pilot.  

Late to the party, early to the A-Wing Fan Club. 

Agree to disagree. It's a high class surprise blocker. That's at least the role I prefer on it. Give me back Snap Shot/Juke Awings!

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I agree that the A-Wing has been intentionally made unsuitable for the arc dodging ace role. I agree that at least I5 is a pretty strict requirement for that role against competitive lists and opponent. However, think of Echo as an exception in 2.0 that has seen some play in higher tournaments. That may be mostly attributable to the Phantoms better defenses and the extreme unpredictability that comes with a bendy decloak though.

I agree that they knowingly translated a game play issue with the A-Wing into the launch of 2.0, while admitting that they made an attempt to fix others. The reissue and general 2.0 meta at that time will be the only definitive answer to the questions of motive.

Making sure that they are aware of how much this fix is wamted/needed is understandable, but probably unnecessary. I think they made it max I4 intentionally after all. They didn't intend for it to fill this role at launch. For good or bad, they are well aware. 

I see that a real attempt has been made at doing something useful with Arvel. He is thematic on multiple levels, solid in game mechanics, and I want to like him. He is pretty clearly a blocker and might be a little too expensive for the role at 39 with the pretty much required Intimidation talent. This is easily fixable. 

I currently am deciding to go positive and trust that FFG will issue an I5 A-Wing pilot for the Rebellion. I think I also probably give the FFG designers more credit than the average forum citizen, but maybe that's only due to naivete. I can see why the ships treatment in 1.0 might make people really nervous about trust in this case. I am not at all sure about when this reissue will happen, and can understand why some people want to be able to use the A-Wing in a role it seems mostly viable for right now instead of "probably later if you trust FFG and don't mind paying a little more for the fix you have wanted to see for a while". 

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2 hours ago, Kelvan said:

Agree to disagree. It's a high class surprise blocker. That's at least the role I prefer on it. Give me back Snap Shot/Juke Awings!

It's almost like one of the best ways to use an A-wing late into 1e was a low P.S. blocker.  The A-wing still very much has a role, as it can catch the vast majority of high ps-ships using its superb dial+actions and some planning.

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Being more of an Empire player, I've not looked that much into Rebels and when I have, I've seen little to get excited about. I'll admit that when I looked at the A Wing (which I love), I largely thought the same as the OP....

However, reading the comments here and seeing peoples actual experiences flying them, changes my view a lot.

I think that plays into so many of the under/overpowered threads knocking about. 2.0 is still very new. A cautious approach by FFG is spot on. As people get more and more games with certain ships, their roles, their strengths, their weaknesses become so much clearer. It'd be asking for trouble, changing things before a deeper understanding of how things can work has settled in.

TL:DR. I thought the A Wing was a bit rubbish too but lots of people seem to have made it work. So I probably just need to get guder. 

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15 hours ago, ForceM said:

It should feel like a high-octane fueled rocket ride with adrenaline flowing out the pilot’s eardrums. I agree it totally doesn’t!

Agreed. They are so fast and great ship ability, I honestly just think if Jake was a 5 and they had a second missile slot (for variety or access to barrage, they'd be fine.) Push Jake to 44 and with Barrage he'd be 50 pts with no reload. Soontir is 52 so that'd be absolutely fine. A wing players will basically have to all play resistance to have their fill.

 

The rerelease of the a wing will bring an ace I'm sure, but Jedi aces will be out by then so who will care

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The Green Squadron Pilot flavor text is what got me:
"Due to its sensitive controls and high maneuverability, only the most talented pilots belong in an A-wing cockpit."

I know it's not called Pilot Skill anymore, but I had a bit of a chuckle when I realized that A-wings are mostly on the lower end of that scale. Especially since that description gave me flashbacks to the notoriously sensitive A-wing level in Rebel Assault, which definitely hammered in the idea that A-wing pilots have to really know what they're doing. I don't think it's necessarily a problem, but I'd certainly enjoy more variety and options.

Edited by Jokubas

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The A-wing is fine. it took me a few games to figure it out as it does play differently than it did in 1.0... but not by much. It requires a bit more finesse, but it truly is fine. It could be a point or two cheaper, but thats not critical right now. It could have a second talent slot... but once again not all that crucial. Right now I'm loving Crack/Procket green squadies (yes I know crack only works on primary) and I love Jake! Especially with Ap5 hanging out with him. Nothing like ap5 coordinate a roll, focus, boost, give a focus action to someone else, take stress, then use the amazing dial to clear stress and take either an evade or lock. It's stupidly fun and very unexpected. I have caught a few ships with their pants down. 

I would love more A-wing pilots. But I don't mind the ones I got. 

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4 hours ago, Jokubas said:

The Green Squadron Pilot flavor text is what got me:
"Due to its sensitive controls and high maneuverability, only the most talented pilots belong in an A-wing cockpit."

I know it's not called Pilot Skill anymore, but I had a bit of a chuckle when I realized that A-wings are mostly on the lower end of that scale. Especially since that description gave me flashbacks to the notoriously sensitive A-wing level in Rebel Assault, which definitely hammered in the idea that A-wing pilots have to really know what they're doing. I don't think it's necessarily a problem, but I'd certainly enjoy more variety and options.

Oh sure, when we talk about fluff, the limiting of the A-Wings Initiative to 4 makes even less sense as in game design terms.

This ship is an interceptor and notorious for needing excellent pilots to work at all. No excuse at all for not having high PS pilots to be found there.

I am also aware that the limited Initiative is imdeed very intentional by FFG. I just don’t agree with it at all. It’s a try to push Rebel faction ID as the selfless support each other faction with no superstars. Which has lead to a lot of their ships not going over I4.

This is overall a questionable decision in my eyes, Because i don’t see exactly that these ships used a lot right now. B-Wing, K-Wing, U-Wing, Auzituck, A-Wing.

But at least for all the others, late repositioning doesn’t matter that much for fulfilling their role of tanking and supporting. The B-Wing and K-Wing would have benefitted from a high PS pilot, but you can do without it if they have other assets.

The A-Wing however is not a low agility HP monster. And with the worse defensive mods and action economy, running more than a barebones PS1 Blocker is just asking your opponent to out-PS your fragile A-Wing and take the points.

Edited by ForceM

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Assuming there is an A-Wing expansion at some point it could contain Tycho, Ahsoka (Force 2, at the start of the engagement phase you may spend 2 Force to give a friendly ship at range 0-1 an action), and maybe even Hera. They would all be I5. 

Its a cool dream anyway. 

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4 hours ago, HammerGibbens said:

I think this was a Poe manoeuvre but I dont see them doing it for lil' ol' Tycho Chelchu

Well we will get 2 new named pilots with the expansion so why not tycho?

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I don't understand one thing. Why does Rebel can not have one arc dodger with 3 dice attack?
All other factions got ships that mimic most common types of ships in Rebel fleet (turrets, jousters), yet Rebel still don't have 3 dice agile attacker - I dont understand this logic.

I tried to do some new lists recently and I feel that Rebels are the most boring of all factions.

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19 minutes ago, Embir82 said:

I don't understand one thing. Why does Rebel can not have one arc dodger with 3 dice attack?
All other factions got ships that mimic most common types of ships in Rebel fleet (turrets, jousters), yet Rebel still don't have 3 dice agile attacker - I dont understand this logic.

I tried to do some new lists recently and I feel that Rebels are the most boring of all factions.

If every faction is identical to the others then what is the point of factions?

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19 minutes ago, Icelom said:

If every faction is identical to the others then what is the point of factions?

Who said having similiar categories of ships means factions are identical? It is logical fallacy.

P.S. Empire and Scum got ships that are in the same categories as Rebel ships yet they got they own flavour. There are upgrades and pilots that can differentiate factions.

Edited by Embir82

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