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Glucose98

Ok Daqan players, help me finish this list!

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So I'm trying to determine my final list to bring to worlds (yes, I don't care if people know it ahead of time, no one's really going to build against *my* Daqan list, I'm not a threat).

Here is the basis of the list totaling 146 points

Oathsworn Cavalry [46] 2x3
Forged In Battle [4]
Wind Rune [6]
Raven Tabards [2]
Column Tactics [4]
Total Unit Cost: 62

Heavy Crossbowmen [27] 3x1
Tempered Steel [3]
Marching Cornicen [2]
Rank Discipline [4]
Total Unit Cost: 36

Spearmen [40] 3x2
Lance Corporal [6]
Metered March [2]
Total Unit Cost: 48

I am trying to figure out how to spend the last 54 points

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So far I have tried adding these:

Outland Scouts [32] 2x2
Kari Wraithstalker [18]
Rank Discipline [4]
Total Unit Cost: 54

Great unit to get up in the mix of things and try to get as many surges as possible to throw knives at neighboring units.  Has 3 blue dice default, 4 if you get a flank.  With a dialed in surge you are capable of throwing 18 damage ranged with no LOS.  Knives does not decrease in strength as you lose trays (but they WILL kill Kari once the back ranks are down)

Outland Scouts [43] 3x2
Seasoned Pathfinder [4]
Moment of Inspiration [5]
Total Unit Cost: 52

This is the threat projection.  It causes your opponent to be very wary on deployment about having a threat-3 unit hit them in the flank.   However, does this unit matter as much with the objectives being Seize the Artifacts, Volatile Runes and Confluence of Magic for Worlds?  

 

I have also thought about adding these:

Heavy Crossbowmen [27] 3x1
Tempered Steel [3]
Marching Cornicen [2]
Rank Discipline [4]
Total Unit Cost: 36

Rune Golems [17] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 17

Why not double down on the bargain 3x1 XBows, and then chuck a Rune Golem in there to block with?

 

Any of these options stand out? Anything else you'd add instead?

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  • Metered march is cool and good, BUT Marching Cornicen turns their I5 3-charge into a 3 turning charge, which usually doesn't happen until I7. Give them Raven Tabards for even more exceptional charging. Good build if you want to be surprisingly aggressive with them.
  • Scouts with Kari seems good, but it's definitely swingy. You can lose those 54 points in the blink of an eye, but it's probably a pretty good way to get big wins in the early rounds of a tournament. Could be cool.
  • Seasoned Pathfinder is super strong, but with two of the three deployments having only two pieces of terrain, I think it's an option best left to a later date. With an aggressive bid to ensure you get to deploy two pieces, that presence will be super powerful and oppressive, but with only one... not full potential.
  • More crossbows more good, so you really can't go wrong with that last option.

Forged in Battle kinda wants you to delay things a bit, Metered March gives you the option to stall well, and Crossbows are excellent ranged damage, so you have the makings of a solid defensive list. Scouts sorta work against that plan by being up front early, but board control is never bad. 

edit: for what it's worth, we'll probably see lots of double crossbow lists, and opponents WILL be considering that when they're list building.

Edited by Bhelliom

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Out of the options listed I would vote crossbowmen and the golem.

Outside idea would be a naked Hawthorne as an inspiration factory.  This let's you swap out the column tactics to a moment of inspiration that you can continually refresh with Hawthorne.  Same idea for lance and tempered on the archers.  

 

Note: haven't played scouts to get a good feel.  But as you stated, 50 pts are a lot for something that might vanish before the rest of your units gets in.

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1 hour ago, Bhelliom said:
  • Metered march is cool and good, BUT Marching Cornicen turns their I5 3-charge into a 3 turning charge, which usually doesn't happen until I7. Give them Raven Tabards for even more exceptional charging. Good build if you want to be surprisingly aggressive with them.
  • Scouts with Kari seems good, but it's definitely swingy. You can lose those 54 points in the blink of an eye, but it's probably a pretty good way to get big wins in the early rounds of a tournament. Could be cool.
  • Seasoned Pathfinder is super strong, but with two of the three deployments having only two pieces of terrain, I think it's an option best left to a later date. With an aggressive bid to ensure you get to deploy two pieces, that presence will be super powerful and oppressive, but with only one... not full potential.
  • More crossbows more good, so you really can't go wrong with that last option.

Forged in Battle kinda wants you to delay things a bit, Metered March gives you the option to stall well, and Crossbows are excellent ranged damage, so you have the makings of a solid defensive list. Scouts sorta work against that plan by being up front early, but board control is never bad. 

edit: for what it's worth, we'll probably see lots of double crossbow lists, and opponents WILL be considering that when they're list building.

I know there will be a lot of double x-bows coming up from Texas :)  

What kind of things counter xbows? Seems like flesh rippers, cavalry, and even the init-4 raven tabard reanimate archers.. But I'm curious what else I'm missing?

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2 hours ago, Xquer said:

Outside idea would be a naked Hawthorne as an inspiration factory.  This let's you swap out the column tactics to a moment of inspiration that you can continually refresh with Hawthorne.  Same idea for lance and tempered on the archers.  

So you're suggesting naked Hawthorne + Rune Golem here?

Another option is upgraded Hawthorne (Fortunas / Might of Daqan) + MoI on the Cav instead of Column Tactics.  Then maybe add Eagle-Banner Bearer / Shield wall  to the spearmen (since they'll be hanging back defensively, and can collect inspiration tokens for a really scary mortal strike attack)

Forged in battle *does* synergize with the 3x2 more than the 2x3 for sure, given how trays are removed and when it provides what benefit.  That's another implicit benefit going with Hawthorne.


So two more options:

Lord Hawthorne [34] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 34

Rune Golems [17] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 17

+ Moment of Inspiration [5] (Oathsworn)

- Column Tactics [4] (Oathsworn)

--------------

Lord Hawthorne [34] 1x1
Fortunas Dice [6]
Might of Daqan [4]
Total Unit Cost: 44

+ Shield Wall [5] (Spearmen)

+ Eagle-Banner Bearer [4] (Spearmen)

+ Moment of Inspiration [5] (Oathsworn)

- Column Tactics [4] (Oathsworn)

 

Edited by Glucose98

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1 hour ago, Glucose98 said:

you're suggesting naked Hawthorne + Rune Golem here

Honestly I suggested naked Hawthorne since I personally play him behind the lines. 

I like the upgrade addons and changes (second choice) the best.  Just keep in mind you have a lot of uses for inspirations on the spearmen so tap accordingly.

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23 minutes ago, Xquer said:

Honestly I suggested naked Hawthorne since I personally play him behind the lines. 

I like the upgrade addons and changes (second choice) the best.  Just keep in mind you have a lot of uses for inspirations on the spearmen so tap accordingly.

Do you get much use out of Lessons of Seragart? Seems like a 2x1 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen is generally a better buff bot in the back lines. Well not better, but cheaper for similar effect.

I've been off the Hawthorne train for a while now, I'd love to hear your experiences with him.

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3 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

Do you get much use out of Lessons of Seragart? Seems like a 2x1 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen is generally a better buff bot in the back lines. Well not better, but cheaper for similar effect.

I've been off the Hawthorne train for a while now, I'd love to hear your experiences with him.

The 3x2 oathsworn unit with Forged in Battle has been really strong for me. It keeps its threat longer than the 2x3 and being 3 wide makes the turn 3 charge cover almost a whole range ruler. My experience has been that the rank discipline kicks in from Forged in Battle around the time the back rank goes.

As for the comparison with the 2x1 spearmen with rallying cornicen... I find that naked Hawthorne makes a solid blocker for xbowmen while cranking out inspiration that will still be around even if he dies. If your 2x1 takes even one hit you probably lose the cornicen.  If you don't tuck him away you will easily get the 12 extra points worth out of him.

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17 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

I'd love to hear your experiences with him.

I much prefer the 3x2 than the 2x3.  The sustained threat is big, but also fitting MoI that gets refreshed everytime was just so good.  

Hawthorne as a fighting unit though?  He kept flopping for me.  I think Shield of Margath has done more damage than I have been able to roll with him.  I think in other player's hands he can be better, I just can't seem to maneuver him correctly.

I should note you can try a rallying cornicen on the Xbows to help keep up the upgrades as well, but not being able to turn is frustrating after having played with the marching horn.

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