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Tonbo Karasu

Children of the Empire Spoilers

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Coyote Walks said:

Don't forget the Mantis (like Kudaka) we'll be running with this.

That seems... excessive. Kudaka is already twice per round.

Do you really think you’re going to claim the Air ring three times in a round?

What are you, a Phoenix?

Edited by Tabris2k

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17 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

That seems... excessive. Kudaka is already twice per round.

Do you really think you’re going to claim the Air ring three times in a round?

What are you, a Phoenix?

It's not like we'd be using Support of the Crab for smuggling - we need more Watch Captains.

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13 hours ago, Coyote Walks said:

Too bad there isn't a Restricted List for this game.... wpml_cool.gif

Yeah but you probably shouldn't print cards that would immediately get on the list. ^^ 

Same with Warm Welcome. I think these aren't a real problem yet, as I don't see anyone running them unless your deck is focused on achieving one combo or trick. It narrows the options you have in your conflict deck (although you can play more of the same effects). I mean I already have a hard time fitting CtM, Attachment removal and Court Games in my deck. Sure it's 6x BHC, but in most decks I'd be surprised to see more than 1x. 

Time will tell if the combos are too busted or if the opportunity cost is hefty enough to balance it out.

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Here's hoping that smuggling deal doesn't police and hamper Crab characters in the future. I actually suspect that all of the Reprieve and Iron Mine tech might have already done that, making the design team not wanting to give something bonkers to something that might stay on the table all game (barring a Cloud). #crabconspiracytheories

On the naming of Warm Welcome, sure it has nothing to do with the ability but I think I gave up on that in oL5R when event cards had typically two printed abilities on them, and an upwards of 4. Try naming 4 things on one card.

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1 hour ago, Hordeoverseer said:

On the naming of Warm Welcome, sure it has nothing to do with the ability but I think I gave up on that in oL5R when event cards had typically two printed abilities on them, and an upwards of 4. Try naming 4 things on one card.

Warm refers to the sweltering temperature, not the notoriously grim locals.

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3 hours ago, Soshi Saibankan said:

Same with Warm Welcome. I think these aren't a real problem yet, as I don't see anyone running them unless your deck is focused on achieving one combo or trick. It narrows the options you have in your conflict deck (although you can play more of the same effects). I mean I already have a hard time fitting CtM, Attachment removal and Court Games in my deck. Sure it's 6x BHC, but in most decks I'd be surprised to see more than 1x. 

Time will tell if the combos are too busted or if the opportunity cost is hefty enough to balance it out.

This.

The "I have a lower honor bid than you" is a far more restrictive cost than a lot of people think, and it is a self-correcting one. I can see this card finding its way into Dragon because of Mirumoto's Daisho, Scorpion if they run Maze of Illusion, and Unicorn if they run that new Courtier which lets them change their dial after the reveal. Otherwise, it really is too unreliable to pack more than 1x of.

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5 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

This.

The "I have a lower honor bid than you" is a far more restrictive cost than a lot of people think, and it is a self-correcting one. I can see this card finding its way into Dragon because of Mirumoto's Daisho, Scorpion if they run Maze of Illusion, and Unicorn if they run that new Courtier which lets them change their dial after the reveal. Otherwise, it really is too unreliable to pack more than 1x of.

It will likely end up a 2 of for many decks just based on the power of the card.  Some clans will as you said have an easier time playing it, but unless Composure really changes the bid meta more than I expect it will be a draw it and horde the card for next turn when you can bid 4 to their 5, turning it on, and than maximize the effect of it.  Only times where I see activating it will be a problem is against Phoenix or Crab dishonor who have their Library/Spyglass draw engines on and so are more inclined to bid 1.

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36 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

It will likely end up a 2 of for many decks just based on the power of the card.  Some clans will as you said have an easier time playing it, but unless Composure really changes the bid meta more than I expect it will be a draw it and horde the card for next turn when you can bid 4 to their 5, turning it on, and than maximize the effect of it.  Only times where I see activating it will be a problem is against Phoenix or Crab dishonor who have their Library/Spyglass draw engines on and so are more inclined to bid 1.

The problem is that it becomes a dead card once you cross the borderline where "Draw 5" becomes "Draw 1". This would be a CRUSHING card to see on the turn both players flop to the Bid 1.

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38 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

The problem is that it becomes a dead card once you cross the borderline where "Draw 5" becomes "Draw 1". This would be a CRUSHING card to see on the turn both players flop to the Bid 1.

But the bid 1 stage really only comes up in dishonor match up's as most other decks are content to keep mashing 5 as long as they can.  Don't get me wrong it will not be a card that you horde all game, its a when you draw it throttle back next turn to use it and then get right back to 5 in most cases, but I can see running 2 to increase the odds of seeing at least 1 while you are still in the viable play stage of the game.

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5 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

But the bid 1 stage really only comes up in dishonor match up's as most other decks are content to keep mashing 5 as long as they can.  Don't get me wrong it will not be a card that you horde all game, its a when you draw it throttle back next turn to use it and then get right back to 5 in most cases, but I can see running 2 to increase the odds of seeing at least 1 while you are still in the viable play stage of the game.

Well, in an honor match-up as well.

To win the game, one needs to Way of the Chrysanthemum of bid 1 and they bid 5 twice. The problem is that one turn of bid 1 seriously lowers one's chances of drawing that card a second time, so unless 2 of the 3 copies start within your hand, the strategy probably won't work. This card effectively doubles the chance of being able to pull off the strategy. It makes it possible to win on round 2 if someone just keeps blindly bidding 5.

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3 minutes ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Well, in an honor match-up as well.

To win the game, one needs to Way of the Chrysanthemum of bid 1 and they bid 5 twice. The problem is that one turn of bid 1 seriously lowers one's chances of drawing that card a second time, so unless 2 of the 3 copies start within your hand, the strategy probably won't work. This card effectively doubles the chance of being able to pull off the strategy. It makes it possible to win on round 2 if someone just keeps blindly bidding 5.

Can't reuse Way of as its not an Action 

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Posted (edited)

Maybe in "Bid 1 Scorpion" decks. Aggressive Scorpion decks actually want to maintain a higher bid than you, so that they get card advantage and City of the Open Hand ensures you don't really gain that honour that was handed over. In a sense, they are able to fish for those extra copies in their deck without needing the help of any other cards other than their Stronghold. However, I suppose it could be a game closer when you can use it to spam Way of the Scorpion/Court Games/For Shame on their whole board to dishonour them out but they might have already gotten the hint to lower their bids before that. Early in the game, you don't quite get the equity as fewer cards have been played.

The lower bid require does make for an interesting conundrum to fairly balance the card. More of these cards would make for a more variety bid meta potentially.

Edited by Hordeoverseer

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4 hours ago, Ignithas said:

I'm pretty sure that it will be played in Scorpion as a 1 or 2 of.

I expect to see this card in Dragon, some Scorpion, and HMT Lion.

In Dragon, Mirumoto's Daisho makes this card skyrocket in equity. Drop a Daisho on Raitsugu or their Challenger coming in CotE, and you have guaranteed Composure. Once you have Composure, you can literally go: "Warm Welcome to Warm Welcome a Void Fist." for 2 Fate. It's Void Fist recursion without Mitsu, and the oldest lesson of card games is that if your deck is designed to exploit something, building another exploit into it just makes it better.

In Scorpion Dishonor, this card will let you fetch a Kachiko, a Cunning Magistrate, or an event which is a killer, and all you need to do is have Maze of Illusion to guarantee it, and you will also have Social Puppeteer.

Lion have cards like Tactician's Apprentice and Gifted Tactician, along with enough cheap to free Actions which allow them to open a bid with 3 on T1, and get double mileage out of Banzai, Way of the Lion, Army of One, or the like. HMT lets them potentially break two provinces on 1.

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2 hours ago, sndwurks said:

I expect to see this card in Dragon, some Scorpion, and HMT Lion.

In Dragon, Mirumoto's Daisho makes this card skyrocket in equity. Drop a Daisho on Raitsugu or their Challenger coming in CotE, and you have guaranteed Composure. Once you have Composure, you can literally go: "Warm Welcome to Warm Welcome a Void Fist." for 2 Fate. It's Void Fist recursion without Mitsu, and the oldest lesson of card games is that if your deck is designed to exploit something, building another exploit into it just makes it better.

In Scorpion Dishonor, this card will let you fetch a Kachiko, a Cunning Magistrate, or an event which is a killer, and all you need to do is have Maze of Illusion to guarantee it, and you will also have Social Puppeteer.

Lion have cards like Tactician's Apprentice and Gifted Tactician, along with enough cheap to free Actions which allow them to open a bid with 3 on T1, and get double mileage out of Banzai, Way of the Lion, Army of One, or the like. HMT lets them potentially break two provinces on 1.

Which makes me think that this card will end up on the restricted list rather quickly. 

It clearly benefits clans that can manipulate the honor dials, or naturally bid low.  If you don't have good/any cards to manipulate the dial or are forced to bid low when otherwise wouldn't want to, this card is likely not going to work well and that is a potential problem.

It's like Policy Debate, but, worse because it's not as easily utilized by some clans.

It probably should have had a higher cost, been limited, or removed itself from the game.....................or all of these things.

 

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7 hours ago, Hordeoverseer said:

Maybe in "Bid 1 Scorpion" decks. Aggressive Scorpion decks actually want to maintain a higher bid than you, so that they get card advantage and City of the Open Hand ensures you don't really gain that honour that was handed over. In a sense, they are able to fish for those extra copies in their deck without needing the help of any other cards other than their Stronghold. However, I suppose it could be a game closer when you can use it to spam Way of the Scorpion/Court Games/For Shame on their whole board to dishonour them out but they might have already gotten the hint to lower their bids before that. Early in the game, you don't quite get the equity as fewer cards have been played.

The lower bid require does make for an interesting conundrum to fairly balance the card. More of these cards would make for a more variety bid meta potentially.

Bid 1 Scorp isn't viable and probably wouldn't play it, because both Players are bidding 1 after the first/second turn anyway. Currently the Scorp Midrange MU is bidding 5 until the total honor is low and then bid 1 to finish them off. Combined with cards that change the dial and the threat of Duty it is pretty potent.

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1 hour ago, twinstarbmc said:

Hang on hang on hang on. Does this make Kaezin... usable?!

Marginally, but wait till we see what the rest of the dueling focus for Children looks like as we should have at least one Duel cancellation card coming.

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3 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Marginally, but wait till we see what the rest of the dueling focus for Children looks like as we should have at least one Duel cancellation card coming.

It's called Stay your hand ;)

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1 hour ago, Soshi Saibankan said:

It's called Stay your hand ;)

Why I said at least 1 as there may be other effects that we haven't seen yet.  What I really hope for is an effect that lets you substitute a character that was challenged with another target as that will make dueling far more interesting.

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7 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Why I said at least 1 as there may be other effects that we haven't seen yet.  What I really hope for is an effect that lets you substitute a character that was challenged with another target as that will make dueling far more interesting.

Such a card would probably require a Yojimbo.

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