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Duciris

Clan Choices at Winter Court 2018

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So the Scorpion, despite "[remaining] relatively untroubled and in a position of unprecedented sway in Imperial matters," is the Clan most in need of internal policing because Shoju doesn't trust his subordinates to not let their greed get the better of them... except Yojiro; Yojiro's cool.

Hmmm... I think this one might be the hardest choice yet, because none of the options really jump out at me. The Shosuro- and Soshi families both just sound like different flavor of hidden spy, Bayushi just sounds like a Magistrate or possibly commissar, and the Yogo is ringing every warning bell about that families curse.

Still, I'd probably go with Soshi or Yogo.

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8 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

Yeah, I'm predicting Kachiko's Coup, kicking off an attack on Sotorii in support of Daisetsu, which is going to go very sideways. Very fast.

But whether I am correct or not, I support Yogo.

For greater chance of Yogo Junzo.

Depends on how Kachiko intends for her coup to proceed.  If she is supporting Sotorii and the coup is an internal clan one as well with her and Aramoro acting against Shoju in an attempt to secure all the power for herself that would be a potentially very interesting story.  Could lead to an interesting alliance where you have elements of the Scorpion rallied behind Shoju as Imperial Regent and Toturi as Emerald Champion versus Kachiko and Aramoro and the Crane backing the "true" heir Satorii.

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52 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

Yeah, I'm predicting Kachiko's Coup, kicking off an attack on Sotorii in support of Daisetsu, which is going to go very sideways. Very fast.

But whether I am correct or not, I support Yogo.

For greater chance of Yogo Junzo.

Yeah, I definitely think Kachiko would be Team Sotorii, because he's probably a lot easier to manipulate. Plus, she's probably already been planning how to do so once Sotorii became 39 for years, whereas the Daisetsu angle is completely new and out of left field.

On the other hand, a public attack on Sotorii "in support of Daisetsu wink wink nod nod" is probably a fairly good way to shame Daisetsu and weaken his support.

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1 hour ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Yeah, I definitely think Kachiko would be Team Sotorii, because he's probably a lot easier to manipulate. Plus, she's probably already been planning how to do so once Sotorii became 39 for years, whereas the Daisetsu angle is completely new and out of left field.

On the other hand, a public attack on Sotorii "in support of Daisetsu wink wink nod nod" is probably a fairly good way to shame Daisetsu and weaken his support.

My thoughts as well, looks like a great new version of the SCC.

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So the Unicorn are expanding their territory. The Lion are controlling the Imperial Legions. The Dragon are occupying Otosan Uchi. My own Crane are whistling past a graveyard while hitting up the Fox for friends. The Phoenix are losing Masters and the kami. The Crab have a hole in the Wall. 

Shosuro to the Scorpion: Slow Your Roll. Something might actually be seriously wrong here, guys.

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I don’t really see Kachiko having a Scorpion civil war with Shoju. I think after the clan crumbles she’ll be seeking her revenge again. 

 

Aramoro on the other hand, well Shoju does warn against “ambition”. 

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2 hours ago, OokamiGauru said:

My thoughts as well, looks like a great new version of the SCC.

I think that on some level this could be perfectly executed in a situation of miscommunication.

Hantei the 38th knows his son is volatile. He goes to talk to him, to prepare him for the proclamation. Sotorii kills his father in a rage, has the proclamation destroyed, and then claims Shoju did it. He then launches an all out assault against the Scorpion Clan in the capital (along with sending assassins after Daisetsu), leaving Shoju in the position of either defending his Clan (and his honor) or dying. He chooses the former, and now we have a "Scorpion Clan Coup", which ends with Sotorii barely escaping due to the assistance of Akodo (Isawa) Kaede.

Akodo Toturi is taken out by the agents of Sotorii, and is the only one who knows Hantei the 38th's plans. He survives, barely, and reappears once the fighting has begun in earnest. The Empire believes both the heirs are dead (Daisetsu only surviving due to Shahai), and Shoju is responsible. Toturi reclaims the capital, and battles Shoju, who dies to Toturi's blade only AFTER Toturi promises to take the Throne to keep the Empire from falling apart. Only then it is revealed that Sotorii survived... and Toturi is stuck holding the bag of "Your dad did not want you to be Emperor", only to be held responsible and stripped of everything by Sotorii (and forbidden to commit seppuku as a twist of the knife from Kachiko, who took advantage of the new Emperor and seduced him, because in her eyes, Toturi murdered Shoju and that's enough for her). The Scorpion Clan suffer for their "coup", Toturi is cast down and made ronin, and we have an Emperor on the Throne who is perfect possession bait.

Meanwhile, somewhere, Daisetsu has basically had the last shreds of his belief in Bushido torn from his eyes... and begins his descent into darkness.

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23 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

I think that on some level this could be perfectly executed in a situation of miscommunication.

Hantei the 38th knows his son is volatile. He goes to talk to him, to prepare him for the proclamation. Sotorii kills his father in a rage, has the proclamation destroyed, and then claims Shoju did it. He then launches an all out assault against the Scorpion Clan in the capital (along with sending assassins after Daisetsu), leaving Shoju in the position of either defending his Clan (and his honor) or dying. He chooses the former, and now we have a "Scorpion Clan Coup", which ends with Sotorii barely escaping due to the assistance of Akodo (Isawa) Kaede.

Akodo Toturi is taken out by the agents of Sotorii, and is the only one who knows Hantei the 38th's plans. He survives, barely, and reappears once the fighting has begun in earnest. The Empire believes both the heirs are dead (Daisetsu only surviving due to Shahai), and Shoju is responsible. Toturi reclaims the capital, and battles Shoju, who dies to Toturi's blade only AFTER Toturi promises to take the Throne to keep the Empire from falling apart. Only then it is revealed that Sotorii survived... and Toturi is stuck holding the bag of "Your dad did not want you to be Emperor", only to be held responsible and stripped of everything by Sotorii (and forbidden to commit seppuku as a twist of the knife from Kachiko, who took advantage of the new Emperor and seduced him, because in her eyes, Toturi murdered Shoju and that's enough for her). The Scorpion Clan suffer for their "coup", Toturi is cast down and made ronin, and we have an Emperor on the Throne who is perfect possession bait.

Meanwhile, somewhere, Daisetsu has basically had the last shreds of his belief in Bushido torn from his eyes... and begins his descent into darkness.

There isn't anything obviously wrong with this... but it feels really contrived for some reason.

Maybe it's the fact that Toturi would fight Shoju. Yes, he doesn't like or trust the Scorpion Clan Champion, but why would Shoju assassinate the Emperor or his heirs when Toturi knows that the Emperor was basically making him Emperor by proxy anyway? Or the fact that Kachiko would side with the man who accused her husband of murdering the Emperor and setting this whole mess in motion to begin with? I just can't put my finger on what I dislike about it, it just... it feels too neat.

Edited by Mangod

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5 hours ago, ElSuave said:

Yogo sounds like the most interesting choice tbh.

Yogo are always interesting.

 

 

And I love the letter:

"Hello everyone. As Bayushi-Kami is my witness, if you endanger our clan by seeking prizes amidst chaos, I will kill you and everyone you have ever loved. HAPPY CAMPING!"

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4 minutes ago, Mangod said:

Maybe it's the fact that Toturi would fight Shoju. Yes, he doesn't like or trust the Scorpion Clan Champion, but why would Shoju assassinate the Emperor or his heirs when Toturi knows that the Emperor was basically making him Emperor by proxy anyway? Or the fact that Kachiko would side with the man who accused her husband of murdering the Emperor and setting this whole mess in motion to begin with? I just can't put my finger on what I dislike about it, it just... it feels too neat.

If you truncate the Coup down to a few punchy points, you could easily have Toturi not WANT to fight Shoju, but need to get to the truth as to what happened. And then Shoju makes Toturi fight him, because the Empire needs a villain, and with him standing as the accused killer of Hantei the 38th...

And Kachiko siding with Sotorii after the death of Shoju makes perfect sense. She intends to kill Sotorii. Slowly. Horribly. Painfully. At his side, with a front row seat as his new bride, while doing what she can to preserve her Clan. The only way Sotorii would let the Scorpion Clan live is if he believed they were thoroughly under his thumb.

I do agree that it does not feel messy enough, but I'm pretty sure we are not going for "messy" in the big fiction of L5R. We are going for "the avalanche has started; it is too late for the pebbles to dissent". AND it makes that the Dragon contribution is likely saving Toturi's life from whomever has come to kill him, connecting Toturi to Togashi Mitsu (one of the leaders of Toturi's Army back in the day) and Mirumoto Hitomi along with the army Toturi lead to victory at the Battle of Beiden Pass.

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25 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

I do agree that it does not feel messy enough, but I'm pretty sure we are not going for "messy" in the big fiction of L5R. We are going for "the avalanche has started; it is too late for the pebbles to dissent". AND it makes that the Dragon contribution is likely saving Toturi's life from whomever has come to kill him, connecting Toturi to Togashi Mitsu (one of the leaders of Toturi's Army back in the day) and Mirumoto Hitomi along with the army Toturi lead to victory at the Battle of Beiden Pass.

I think one of my issues is that in O5R, the Coup was deliberately set up by Shoju in advance. Smuggling samurai into Otosan Uchi, sabotaging the other Clans in the city, subduing the Seppun - Shoju must have spent at least weeks preparing to seize and hold the Imperial capital. By contrast, here he gets accused of murdering the Emperor despite being innocent, and without the forces he'd need to hold the capital or fight off the other Clans in the city. When he gets all this dumped on his head, why would Shoju not immediately just leg it towards Scorpion territory, where he's got a chance of fighting it out, or at least figure out why the Imperial Heir would try and frame him for murdering his close friend and Emperor?

It's an even messier situation than the original O5R version of the Coup, so things just working out so conveniently just feels weird.

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My thought is, the edict to announce Daisetsu as the heir with Shoju as regent is the powder keg, not the spark. Otherwise the Lion and Scorpion clan letters/choices feel like they'd be meaningless. Toturi is calling on his clan to bolster the Emerald Legions, almost certainly in anticipation of the edict's aftermath. Shoju is warning his clan against their ambitions for the same reason. If we break out into a coup immediately, those seem like wasted efforts. 

The other thing is, Hantei is best friends with Shoju, and it seems pretty obvious he's already consulted his friend about the edict. I have a hard time believing the emperor, advised by Shoju, and knowing how bad and "dark" Sotorii is, would have kept it a secret right up until the night before, only to suddenly decide he's going to put himself alone in a room with Sotorii and tell him about the edict...he's old, not stupid. More likely, he'll have the guards on alert and rely on the fact both Toturi and Shoju know what's coming to ensure things are handled at court, should Sotorii be so stupid as to try anything in a very public place in front of all the clans. 

I think we can expect the story team keeping things at a simmer in a pot full of samurai drama while they keep adding the key ingredients...this pot doesn't feel ready to boil over just yet. Especially since the edict itself is already a pretty big shakeup without even needing an immediate coup/civil war coming out of it. 

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We get more confirmation in Shoju's letter that he holds a very pure sense of the Scorpion's mission and by extension where their priorities should lie.  Hard not to like the guy.  Makes me think he's doomed.

I'd go Yogo if I had the choice.  If not Yogo then Soshi seems the best suited to the task.  That said it does feel like their is less variety in the descriptions this time (except for Yogo).

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10 hours ago, Vulcan646 said:

I think the choice that the Scorpion should pick is the Soshi.

It seems the most subtle while also giving Shoju as much information possible.

 

I also think they are often depicted as Shugenja, but they are also known for their magistrates and helped develop Imperial Law (Saibankan^^). Theyd be a perfect fit!

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Ok, with all choices announced this is where I, provisionally, stand:

Crab: Kaiu because I want more story for them or Yasuki because I want diplomatic Crab and because lots of the Crab neighbours are Minor Clans (Falcon, Fox and Sparrow). The other options seem a bit more samey or already threaded ground.

Crane: Asahina hands down. No other option compares and the Kakita option seems outright boring.

Dragon: Agasha and Kitsuki are nominally more interesting with a slight edge to the Agasha. The Mirumoto option in my mind also has promise if the Dragon end up acting as a foil to Hantei XXXVIIIth intention to abdicate in favour of Daisetsu. The possibility of the Dragon bumbling into the Dragon Clan Coup seems, to me, extremely interesting. The Togashi option imake the Kakita option look interesting.

Lion: No option stands out. Part of the problem is that at this point the Lion narrative is heavily centered on Toturi and Tsuko with relatively little nuance. I personally favour the Kitsu option because they always had relatively little storytime, with the Ikoma as a good second option.

Phoenix: The Phoenix seem to have the largest breadth of interesting options with only the Isawa coming across as cookie cutter. Personally, due to the peasant angle, I favour the Shiba option.

Scorpion: For their stated objective, the Bayushi seem to be the obvious choice, but on the other hand it also seems threaded ground. The Shosuro option has the same problems as the Togashi option on the Dragon and Soshi is only slightly better due to their smaller prominence in the story. So by process of elimination I think the Yogo might be the best option, at the very least as a conflict catalyst.

Unicorn: The Unicorn seem to have the least interestiing story beat in store, seemingly more reactive to tje continuation of the ongoing Lion-Unicorn conflict. With that in mind I would still favour the Ide both for opening the narrative beyond Altansarnai's core circle of hangers-on and in the off-chance that we actually get some insight into the Ide's seemingly inexplicable incompetence. Alternatively I think a Utaku would be a great foil for the Lion.

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8 hours ago, sndwurks said:

I think that on some level this could be perfectly executed in a situation of miscommunication.

Hantei the 38th knows his son is volatile. He goes to talk to him, to prepare him for the proclamation. Sotorii kills his father in a rage, has the proclamation destroyed, and then claims Shoju did it. He then launches an all out assault against the Scorpion Clan in the capital (along with sending assassins after Daisetsu), leaving Shoju in the position of either defending his Clan (and his honor) or dying. He chooses the former, and now we have a "Scorpion Clan Coup", which ends with Sotorii barely escaping due to the assistance of Akodo (Isawa) Kaede.

Akodo Toturi is taken out by the agents of Sotorii, and is the only one who knows Hantei the 38th's plans. He survives, barely, and reappears once the fighting has begun in earnest. The Empire believes both the heirs are dead (Daisetsu only surviving due to Shahai), and Shoju is responsible. Toturi reclaims the capital, and battles Shoju, who dies to Toturi's blade only AFTER Toturi promises to take the Throne to keep the Empire from falling apart. Only then it is revealed that Sotorii survived... and Toturi is stuck holding the bag of "Your dad did not want you to be Emperor", only to be held responsible and stripped of everything by Sotorii (and forbidden to commit seppuku as a twist of the knife from Kachiko, who took advantage of the new Emperor and seduced him, because in her eyes, Toturi murdered Shoju and that's enough for her). The Scorpion Clan suffer for their "coup", Toturi is cast down and made ronin, and we have an Emperor on the Throne who is perfect possession bait.

Meanwhile, somewhere, Daisetsu has basically had the last shreds of his belief in Bushido torn from his eyes... and begins his descent into darkness.

There are some story beats from the old lore that I want to see revisited or touched upon, but that seems a bit contrived towards having a near repeat of the old SCC and Clan War.

That's something I hope FFG steers away from.

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15 hours ago, sndwurks said:

I think that on some level this could be perfectly executed in a situation of miscommunication.

Hantei the 38th knows his son is volatile. He goes to talk to him, to prepare him for the proclamation. Sotorii kills his father in a rage, has the proclamation destroyed, and then claims Shoju did it. He then launches an all out assault against the Scorpion Clan in the capital (along with sending assassins after Daisetsu), leaving Shoju in the position of either defending his Clan (and his honor) or dying. He chooses the former, and now we have a "Scorpion Clan Coup", which ends with Sotorii barely escaping due to the assistance of Akodo (Isawa) Kaede.

Akodo Toturi is taken out by the agents of Sotorii, and is the only one who knows Hantei the 38th's plans. He survives, barely, and reappears once the fighting has begun in earnest. The Empire believes both the heirs are dead (Daisetsu only surviving due to Shahai), and Shoju is responsible. Toturi reclaims the capital, and battles Shoju, who dies to Toturi's blade only AFTER Toturi promises to take the Throne to keep the Empire from falling apart. Only then it is revealed that Sotorii survived... and Toturi is stuck holding the bag of "Your dad did not want you to be Emperor", only to be held responsible and stripped of everything by Sotorii (and forbidden to commit seppuku as a twist of the knife from Kachiko, who took advantage of the new Emperor and seduced him, because in her eyes, Toturi murdered Shoju and that's enough for her). The Scorpion Clan suffer for their "coup", Toturi is cast down and made ronin, and we have an Emperor on the Throne who is perfect possession bait.

Meanwhile, somewhere, Daisetsu has basically had the last shreds of his belief in Bushido torn from his eyes... and begins his descent into darkness.

Toturi then resurfaces in a fighting pit in a Unicorn city on the edge of the Sands. Using his fighting skill and natural charisma, he quickly makes an ally out of an old Ide Trader, who provisions him up into quality armor.

Eventually as Sotorii tries to distract the Empire from questions about his ascension, he declares an enormous festival, complete with a melee tournament. Toturi and his Ide master come, where Toturi is able to reconnect with some of his Legion friends, and eventually, after Sotorii realizes who he his, Sotorii comes into the melee for a 1v1 duel against Toturi...

Wait a second.

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3 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Toturi then resurfaces in a fighting pit in a Unicorn city on the edge of the Sands. Using his fighting skill and natural charisma, he quickly makes an ally out of an old Ide Trader, who provisions him up into quality armor.

Eventually as Sotorii tries to distract the Empire from questions about his ascension, he declares an enormous festival, complete with a melee tournament. Toturi and his Ide master come, where Toturi is able to reconnect with some of his Legion friends, and eventually, after Sotorii realizes who he his, Sotorii comes into the melee for a 1v1 duel against Toturi...

Wait a second.

Are you not entertained?

(Wouldn't be the first time Rokugan ripped off something Greek / Roman...)

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1 minute ago, sndwurks said:

Are you not entertained?

(Wouldn't be the first time Rokugan ripped off something Greek / Roman...)

*throws sword at audience*

Evidently there's a limited number of times you can react to posts in a day, so I'll have to remember to give you a like tomorrow.

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