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The curious case of Boba Fett

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2 hours ago, Micanthropyre said:

Yes. He was played by a highly skilled player and die rolls could have been hot. Fenn is also probably the best Redline hunter in the game right now, but I don't think he's overpowered. I don't think he needs a points reduction either, he's a solid player right now that is very strong.

Edit: just realized I read the top 16 backwards, Jesper didn't win. But my comments below still apply. :)

 

Jesper Hills won, not Fenn. We need to respect the players' performances. @SOTL Are you aware that in late 1.0 Jesper won and/or placed highly with a  tricky list of control Brobots. Armed with Ion cannon and bombs, capped at 1 damage, those are PS6 arc ships in a PS10+ meta. I could hardly win a  game with that loadout against a good opponent/list, much less ion top players off the board. He has mad skillz. He could probably beat me black and  blue flying 100pts of Sarko Plank + naked Contracted Scout in 2.0 :) One day I hope to see him win worlds, preferably with some iteration of Brobots.

If his list and other top 16 Scum lists are an indication, I'd say Moldy Crow Palob rates at least as highly as Fenn. Top 3 in Scum for me.

Btw Boba Fett (pilot) wasn't in the top placed lists, however Boba Fett (crew) was with Palob in 2/3 top scum lists..

Edited by westiebestie
Quoting SOTL

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29 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

Yes. He was played by a highly skilled player and die rolls could have been hot. Fenn is also probably the best Redline hunter in the game right now, but I don't think he's overpowered. I don't think he needs a points reduction either, he's a solid player right now that is very strong.

Sorry double post.

Edited by westiebestie
Double post

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3 minutes ago, westiebestie said:

Jesper Hills won, not Fenn. Respect his performance. Are you aware that in late 1.0 Jesper won and/or placed highly with a  tricky list of control Brobots. Armed with Ion cannon and bombs, capped at 1 damage, those are PS6 arc ships in a PS10+ meta. I could hardly win a  game with that loadout against a good opponent/list, much less ion top players off the board. He has mad skillz. He could probably beat me black and  blue flying 100pts of Sarko Plank + naked Contracted Scout in 2.0 :) One day I hope to see him win worlds, preferably with some iteration of Brobots.

If his list and other lists are an indication, I'd say Moldy Crow Palob rates at least as highly as Fenn. Top 3 in Scum for me.

Btw Boba Fett (pilot) wasn't in the top placed lists, however Boba Fett (crew) was with Palob in 2/3 top 3 lists..

Right. Highly skilled player.

Moldy Palob is definitely strong. It'll be interesting to see more of him.

Also Pilot wasn't in the top placed list and Crew was because, uh, it was Coruscant.

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I think Boba is strong, but I’m not sure he is so powerful as to be distorting the game balance. I think some folks are particularly bothered by Boba because of the way his passive ability combines with his ability to generate a big token stack (1.0 PTSD); but I haven’t found that it makes him duly unkillable or incredibly dangerous. I’m happy Boba is strong right now, and I think any changes should be slight and focus primarily on addressing the extra tokens he generates through Han Gunner.

It seems FFG is committed to adjusting points and slots as its primary means of balancing. So, ignoring possible FAQ’s or card text changes, what could make a real difference? Boba could lose access to the Title, but that would prevent him from taking his own ship’s Title, so that seems unlikely. Points could go up, but this is a tricky issue... this combination is dependent on a Title, a Gunner, a Crew, and a pilot. Where do you increase the points? Adjusting the upgrade cards impacts their ability to function for other ships/builds. Adjusting Boba makes him weaker with alternative builds, harming his overall viability.

It seems the most restrained way to address this would be a small, incremental point increase on the different components of the build to make the overall combination more expensive. Marauder goes up by 2, Han goes up by 4-6, Boba goes up by 2-4, and you’ve added 10 points to Boba’s base cost. I’m still a little skeptical about this — it doesn’t impact Boba/Guri, besides diminishing the bid. But it does limit Boba’s partners in a 3+ ship build, and the Firespray simply isn’t durable enough to justify such a large investment. But anything more drastic risks hurting Boba’s overall viability, or breaking parts of the combination that would impact other lists. Targeting Marauder or Han Gunner with an even bigger points jump might further encourage folks to explore alternative builds for Boba.

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1 minute ago, sionnach19 said:

I think Boba is strong, but I’m not sure he is so powerful as to be distorting the game balance. I think some folks are particularly bothered by Boba because of the way his passive ability combines with his ability to generate a big token stack (1.0 PTSD); but I haven’t found that it makes him duly unkillable or incredibly dangerous. I’m happy Boba is strong right now, and I think any changes should be slight and focus primarily on addressing the extra tokens he generates through Han Gunner.

It seems FFG is committed to adjusting points and slots as its primary means of balancing. So, ignoring possible FAQ’s or card text changes, what could make a real difference? Boba could lose access to the Title, but that would prevent him from taking his own ship’s Title, so that seems unlikely. Points could go up, but this is a tricky issue... this combination is dependent on a Title, a Gunner, a Crew, and a pilot. Where do you increase the points? Adjusting the upgrade cards impacts their ability to function for other ships/builds. Adjusting Boba makes him weaker with alternative builds, harming his overall viability.

It seems the most restrained way to address this would be a small, incremental point increase on the different components of the build to make the overall combination more expensive. Marauder goes up by 2, Han goes up by 4-6, Boba goes up by 2-4, and you’ve added 10 points to Boba’s base cost. I’m still a little skeptical about this — it doesn’t impact Boba/Guri, besides diminishing the bid. But it does limit Boba’s partners in a 3+ ship build, and the Firespray simply isn’t durable enough to justify such a large investment. But anything more drastic risks hurting Boba’s overall viability, or breaking parts of the combination that would impact other lists. Targeting Marauder or Han Gunner with an even bigger points jump might further encourage folks to explore alternative builds for Boba.

If Han Gunner gets picked up by, say, Kavil and it's real good I'd say Han should get a points increase. 

If not, the easy solution is Marauder getting a points increase. 

Both only if Boba actually becomes a meta-warping pilot.

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8 minutes ago, sionnach19 said:

 Where do you increase the points? Adjusting the upgrade cards impacts their ability to function for other ships/builds. 

Good point, however, FFG is capable of increasing the cost of an upgrade separately both per-ship, AND per-pilot. 

In other words, they could increase han Gunner cost for JUST Boba pilot, if it is determined to be an "auto-include". 

(For example, the Y-wing can equip hull upgrade at 3 points and shield at 4 instead of 5 and 6 like most 2-agility ships)

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I like the idea of locking a Title to a particular pilot.  Both for fluff and for game balance.  If Poe is only pilot that can take Black One Title, it makes balancing both pilot and title easier.  Odds of that happening are very slim.  Especially for cards that are already printed that don't include limitations.  

I see a slight increase in cost for Boba pilot and Han gunner.  A slightly higher increase to Marauder.  It's awfully cheap for what it adds.

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1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

Good point, however, FFG is capable of increasing the cost of an upgrade separately both per-ship, AND per-pilot. 

In other words, they could increase han Gunner cost for JUST Boba pilot, if it is determined to be an "auto-include". 

(For example, the Y-wing can equip hull upgrade at 3 points and shield at 4 instead of 5 and 6 like most 2-agility ships)

That's because hull and shield upgrade are priced by agl value. All 1 agl ships get it for 3 and 4.

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Marauder and Han are both great value. If they go up and Boba's bid goes down to the point where he's moving second and unable to reactively boost, I feel like it's all fine.

But, at this point, it could all just be monsters under the bed.

Redline is definitely a bad boy though. 

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2 hours ago, Micanthropyre said:

I think inadvertently the initiative bid has been made even more important than in 1.0.

Redline alone is going to hold generics back, with the ability to contribute a fully modded Proton Torpedo + Trajectory Sim Bomb to alpha striking a generic off the board. I think Supernatural Reflexes and Redline will see the most dramatic increase in points in January.

 

 

Don’t get me wrong I like Redline and they are probably the ship I’ve wanted to play the most in 2.0, but Redline doesn’t like lots of ships. If you are doing the launched Bombs thing you are just controlling areas of the board. The high mod Torps (which often need cordinate because you have to boost) are great against single targets. 

Redline hates to joust many ships like a swarm or efficiency generics. Redline just melts with 1 green dice and likely no defensive mods. 

I can see Redline going up but I can’t see it being dramatic. Mostly because a lot of the kit should go up. Proton Bomb could go up by 1, Tragedy Sim by 1, Proton Torp by 1-3 and that would all be good. By the time you do that does Redline need to go up more than 1?

This is all wild speculation. I’ve played Redline a lot, mostly with Advanced Sensors. It’s a ship that is obviously costed because it needs loadout just like the bomber. 

Redline is as much about the teammates as it is about some good upfront damage. 

Edited by DodgingArcs

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Eh, I honestly think people are overrating so called "broken" combos at this juncture

Boba is strong, sure, but he's pushing 90 points for full mods on a 3 die ship. Plus, and I know this from experience, he can't 1v1 a similarly costed Brath for ****. Defensive mods too strong

What REALLY makes Boba stand out is just how overcosted basically every other medium/large base ship is atm. (Except the Kim; Kim is good)

 

Gunner Han could def be 10 points, though. he's RIDICULOUSLY cheap 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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2 hours ago, westiebestie said:

Edit: just realized I read the top 16 backwards, Jesper didn't win. But my comments below still apply. :)

 

 

Btw Boba Fett (pilot) wasn't in the top placed lists, however Boba Fett (crew) was with Palob in 2/3 top scum lists..

^ doesn't apply at all.

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3 hours ago, westiebestie said:

Dash/Leebo +T65 Luke seems top tier to me.

Not really. Having one big gun isn't a great option right now when it costs so much and has to burn actions on arc rotation. Boba is the exception because of the upgrades and crew available to him. 

I'm thinking marauder might be what needs a point increase. 

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15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Eh, I honestly think people are overrating so called "broken" combos at this juncture

Boba is strong, sure, but he's pushing 90 points for full mods on a 3 die ship. Plus, and I know this from experience, he can't 1v1 a similarly costed Brath for ****. Defensive mods too strong

What REALLY makes Boba stand out is just how overcosted basically every other medium/large base ship is atm. (Except the Kim; Kim is good)

 

Gunner Han could def be 10 points, though. he's RIDICULOUSLY cheap 

I totally agree with this. The UP UP UP cry is driving me nuts. The game is so fun right now with all sorts of squads. Boba might not be an easy beat, Brath might be hard yo take down, Supernatural might make you a squirrel, and Redline might punch a hole in you on the first round of combat but everything can be beat. 

Just play. I hate Palob with a passion and my mate dances Guri into places I couldn’t imagine but the entire game is an interesting puzzle. 

It’s really easy to look across the fence to a different faction and say what should go up, but it’s more fun to just play. 

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24 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

 

Boba is strong, sure, but he's pushing 90 points for full mods on a 3 die ship. Plus, and I know this from experience, he can't 1v1 a similarly costed Brath for ****. Defensive mods too strong

 

I agree with your full post. And Rexler needs to be mentioned in the top list for each faction. Maybe in the same category as the Outrider though, ie not tournament top tier but top tier for semi-friendly/average Joe gaming. Rexler-Whisper-Soontir is my fav Empire list and I rate the first two highly. 

If we talk about point cost adjustments to Marauder and/or Han (I don't think Boba should go up as that would invalidate other cool builds) then definitely Juke has to go up too for I5+ ships/ships with passive Evades like be the Defender and Phantom. 

Supernatural reflexes, Marauder and Juke (needs to be variable cost) would be my picks for an increase. But overall the sheer variation of builds we see, and the fact that you can win with most of them, indicate a healthy game state!

Edited by westiebestie

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I don't mind Boba, really. He's very vulnerable to both Barrage Rockets and Proton Torpedos, and if he's using Han he's often limited to relatively predictable blues. I do think he's a little to cheap compared to the other Firespray pilots though. It's very difficult to think of a reason to run Kath or Krassix when Boba is only a few points more expensive. I'd say the others need a point decrease more than he needs an increase. Same goes for the titles. Marauder is too cheap compared to Slave-1 and Andrasta. Han should also go up by a couple of points.

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7 minutes ago, 3ktop said:

It's all a conspiracy to attract new fans to the game, Boba nerf will come sooner or later. I just hope it be via Han cost.

Perhaps a new obstacle?

Space Sarlaac - When a unique Scum pilot bumps or is bumped within range 2 of this obstacle, remove that pilot from the game.

Edited by JJ48

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It's not just Han-gunner who's too cheap. 0-0-0 is pretty potent for 3 points.  Han seems somewhat comparable to Baze Malbus at 8 points (extra focus for stress).  Trip probably should be 5-6, around where Agent Kallus is.  They both convert 1 eye to something practical, under certain conditions.

//

For his pilot ability, Boba Fett shouldn't be rerolling a die for *each* ship, but rerolling a single die if there are any enemy ships at 0-1.  That seems like it would have been a rational reduction in power level, but still quite strong in a lower-dice-mods edition, but also the kind of errata somewhat unlikely in 2e.

Edited by theBitterFig

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