The curious case of Boba Fett

[N'Kata 38]

I think most people will agree that Boba Fett in "his" Maurader, with Han in the gunner seat, is one of the most powerful (if not THE most powerful) builds in the game right now. The big problem with this build is that it acts like 1.0 in a 2.0 meta. He`s got a lot of passive modifiers, both on offence and on defense (Perceptive copilot gives him two focus tokens when he uses Han, he seldom needs more) , and the "normal" play to stop such a ship do not usually work: Try to stay away... Well unless you play the range game perfectly, and hit that sweet range 3 spot, Boba can just boost into range 1 and throw fully modified dice both on offence and on defense. Try to bump him... he is now at range one of at least one ship, and still gets his focus before he fires... well done.

So I was wondering, what do you think of Boba? Is he priced properly, is the problem just Han gunner, or is the problem that most player do not know how to play against such a ship?

How can we counter Boba in todays meta? One way is to use tractor beams (got to love those Quadjumpers), but are there other/better ways to handle him?

And finally, how should he be "nerfed"? Is a point increase the right way to go, should his ability be altered, or are there any other way to go? One idea my be to make the different Firespray-titles only available for their "right" pilots, eg. Boba can only equip Slave 1, Kath can only equip Marauder and so on. What do you think?

N`Kata

[viedit 1,928]

Not sure they can go retroactive at this point, but his ability should have been charge based.  2 charges that you can recover one per round.  Spend a charge to re-reroll a dice for each enemy within range 0-1 of you.

He's still strong.  But he's now a bit more scared of focused fire and is more vulnerable the following rounds.

Edited October 10, 2018 by viedit

[JasonCole 1,024]

Han Gunner = 30 points. Problem solved.

[viedit 1,928]

Just now, JasonCole said:

Han Gunner = 30 points. Problem solved.

He's still strong without it.  I've played a couple games where I rarely ever triggered it because I didn't want the stress.  And he still murdered everything.  

[LagJanson 7,336]

Expect a point cost increase in January.

[SOTL 3,229]

I think Boba Fett isn't quite top tier.

He's a really powerful 'gear check' type of boss who filters out and destroys anybody bringing ships that aren't quite the top tier, but I think the very best ships are also good against Boba.

This doesn't change the fact that Han Gunner should probably cost double digits when benchmarked against other crew options in the card pool.

[Micanthropyre 991]

Having played against Boba a bunch lately, I don't think he's unstoppable. 

The current meta bogeyman-in-chief is probably Redline. Other candidates for top-tier would be Vader and Luke (tied almost exclusively to Supernatural Reflexes).

In the very strong but probably not overpowered tier you've got Whisper and Boba.

[Bucknife 1,801]

1 minute ago, Micanthropyre said:

Having played against Boba a bunch lately, I don't think he's unstoppable. 

The current meta bogeyman-in-chief is probably Redline. Other candidates for top-tier would be Vader and Luke (tied almost exclusively to Supernatural Reflexes).

In the very strong but probably not overpowered tier you've got Whisper and Boba.

Well said. 

I'm a Resistance guy, so I'm banking on being able to compete with Poe and Black One. Hopefully, it's all balanced pretty fair at that top tier. 

As far a efficient generics go in contributing to the top tier, I've been sadly disappointed so far. My best hope was for the Y-wings right behind generic TIE/ln, but I have yet to see 5 on the table from anyone. 

[SOTL 3,229]

Generics are a victim of the 2.0 points cost system.  The compression of points costs make it too effective to upgrade to a named pilot most of the time, and the desperate search for dice mods mean pilot abilities that matter are massively worth purchasing now that the elite premium cost has come down.

[westiebestie 140]

10 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

Having played against Boba a bunch lately, I don't think he's unstoppable. 

The current meta bogeyman-in-chief is probably Redline. Other candidates for top-tier would be Vader and Luke (tied almost exclusively to Supernatural Reflexes).

In the very strong but probably not overpowered tier you've got Whisper and Boba.

Dash/Leebo +T65 Luke seems top tier to me.

[Hoarder of Garlic Bread 2,561]

4 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Generics are a victim of the 2.0 points cost system.  The compression of points costs make it too effective to upgrade to a named pilot most of the time, and the desperate search for dice mods mean pilot abilities that matter are massively worth purchasing now that the elite premium cost has come down.

Let me introduce you to strikers and bombers....

[SOTL 3,229]

1 minute ago, player3010587 said:

Let me introduce you to strikers and bombers....

There are a couple of exceptions, where the points reduction from 2.0 has been particularly steep and the named pilots are a bit rubbish. 

I'm not sure Strikers are clearly one of those exceptions, though.

[ThinkingB 349]

36 minutes ago, N'Kata said:

I think most people will agree that Boba Fett in "his" Maurader, with Han in the gunner seat, is one of the most powerful (if not THE most powerful) builds in the game right now. The big problem with this build is that it acts like 1.0 in a 2.0 meta. He`s got a lot of passive modifiers, both on offence and on defense (Perceptive copilot gives him two focus tokens when he uses Han, he seldom needs more) , and the "normal" play to stop such a ship do not usually work: Try to stay away... Well unless you play the range game perfectly, and hit that sweet range 3 spot, Boba can just boost into range 1 and throw fully modified dice both on offence and on defense. Try to bump him... he is now at range one of at least one ship, and still gets his focus before he fires... well done.

So I was wondering, what do you think of Boba? Is he priced properly, is the problem just Han gunner, or is the problem that most player do not know how to play against such a ship?

How can we counter Boba in todays meta? One way is to use tractor beams (got to love those Quadjumpers), but are there other/better ways to handle him?

And finally, how should he be "nerfed"? Is a point increase the right way to go, should his ability be altered, or are there any other way to go? One idea my be to make the different Firespray-titles only available for their "right" pilots, eg. Boba can only equip Slave 1, Kath can only equip Marauder and so on. What do you think?

N`Kata

If anything, Han Gunner should go up to at least 6 points, if not more. The problem with it is that it's essentially an initiative infinite linked action, so I'm not sure what a fair cost would be. However a lot of Boba builds have been bringing large bids, so I think they could still manage to play basically unchanged if they hiked up Han. Despite this, I really don't think Boba is much of a problem. At least he can take damage and die.

If we want to talk about unfair 1.0 in 2.0 ships that get passive mods, then let's talk about Fenn in the Fang, who is much worse than Boba on the board. He used to be afraid of old bombs, old turrets, and PS 10/11 ships. Now all of those have been done away with, yet all Fenn loses is PTL (Not really because he can still boost + focus with linked action) and autothrusters. He's just such utter nonsense in the hands of a competent pilot that there comes a point where you basically cannot kill him, even if you're flying well, getting modded shots off, and trying to corral him. He needs to have more counters that just aren't there yet otherwise he just is invincible due to him moving last, boost+focus, 3 native greens(its going to be 4 or 5 though), and Concordia. Fenn + Concordia + Fearless is just as bad as expertise in 1.0, if not worse. I would rather fight 10 fat Bobas in a row than a single Fenn Rau.

Edited October 10, 2018 by ThinkingB

[Hoarder of Garlic Bread 2,561]

13 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

Having played against Boba a bunch lately, I don't think he's unstoppable. 

The current meta bogeyman-in-chief is probably Redline. Other candidates for top-tier would be Vader and Luke (tied almost exclusively to Supernatural Reflexes).

In the very strong but probably not overpowered tier you've got Whisper and Boba.

Redline is amazingly good, but mobile lists with arc dodgers (phantoms, strikers, afterburners, and squints) or outright tanks (Defenders or boosting Boba) offer a large amount of room for counterplay

[Micanthropyre 991]

2 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Generics are a victim of the 2.0 points cost system.  The compression of points costs make it too effective to upgrade to a named pilot most of the time, and the desperate search for dice mods mean pilot abilities that matter are massively worth purchasing now that the elite premium cost has come down.

I think inadvertently the initiative bid has been made even more important than in 1.0.

Redline alone is going to hold generics back, with the ability to contribute a fully modded Proton Torpedo + Trajectory Sim Bomb to alpha striking a generic off the board. I think Supernatural Reflexes and Redline will see the most dramatic increase in points in January.

That being said, there are lots of generics that are doing just fine. 

Just now, player3010587 said:

Let me introduce you to strikers and bombers....

Add to that Quadjumpers and Z-95s. Generic TIE Interceptors could also see play with Sloane, and I think that generic B-Wings are a slight points decrease away from being a good miniswarm component of a Wedge or Luke list.

4 minutes ago, westiebestie said:

Dash/Leebo +T65 Luke seems top tier to me.

Luke carries the weight in that, and he's one of my top tier ships right now.

[SOTL 3,229]

Agree that Fenn is probably in the tier of ships that is ahead of Boba.

[Micanthropyre 991]

1 minute ago, ThinkingB said:

If anything, Han Gunner should go up to at least 6 points, if not more. The problem with it is that it's essentially an initiative infinite linked action, so I'm not sure what a fair cost would be. However a lot of Boba builds have been bringing large bids, so I think they could still manage to play basically unchanged if they hiked up Han. Despite this, I really don't think Boba is much of a problem. At least he can take damage and die.

If we want to talk about unfair 1.0 in 2.0 ships that get passive mods, then let's talk about Fenn in the Fang, who is much worse than Boba on the board. He used to be afraid of old bombs, old turrets, and PS 10/11 ships. Now all of those have been done away with, yet all Fenn loses is PTL (Not really because he can still boost + focus with linked action) and autothrusters. He's just such utter nonsense in the hands of a competent pilot that there comes a point where you basically cannot kill him, even if you're flying well, getting modded shots off, and trying to corral him. He needs to have more counters that just aren't there yet otherwise he just is invincible due to him moving last, boost+focus, 3 native greens(its going to be 4 or 5 though), and Concordia. Fenn + Concordia + Fearless is just as bad as expertise in 1.0, if not worse. I would rather fight 10 fat Bobas in a row than a single Fenn Rau.

 

Just now, SOTL said:

Agree that Fenn is probably in the tier of ships that is ahead of Boba.

At current cost, I'd put Fenn in the same tier as Boba and Whisper. Maybe a strict ranking would have him ahead of Boba, but his RNGesus reliance makes him an excellent exhibition player, and less good over a 6 round tournament.

But he should have been in my original list, its true.

[MasterShake2 5,186]

6 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Generics are a victim of the 2.0 points cost system.  The compression of points costs make it too effective to upgrade to a named pilot most of the time, and the desperate search for dice mods mean pilot abilities that matter are massively worth purchasing now that the elite premium cost has come down.

 

So, this is definitely not super conclusive or anything crazy, but my best success so far has involved 2x Gray Squadron Bombers with Protons and R4's.

 

One thing that I've noticed, both in game and observed elsewhere is that players are quick to look for list building solutions to a problem over simply trying to set up a good engagement that mitigates or lessens powerful abilities. Good flying is definitely a perishable skill.

 

I think this is very much a 1.0 relic where some of the combinations were simply too effective to be solved with canny flying. We've definitely had a number of locals running Fett with highly variable levels of skill attached, but I haven't had serious problems with him yet and his performances for his cost have been quite underwhelming.

[Bucknife 1,801]

Maybe we should rename this thread,

"The Curious Case of 2.0"

Or,

"The Curious Case of the Mandolorian"

What's up with that guy, anyway? 

Expanded universe gunslinger Mando. Bet ya he's gonna get a wicked cool scum ship in 2.0.

[Koing907 1,269]

39 minutes ago, N'Kata said:

I think most people will agree that Boba Fett in "his" Maurader, with Han in the gunner seat, is one of the most powerful (if not THE most powerful) builds in the game right now. The big problem with this build is that it acts like 1.0 in a 2.0 meta. He`s got a lot of passive modifiers, both on offence and on defense (Perceptive copilot gives him two focus tokens when he uses Han, he seldom needs more) , and the "normal" play to stop such a ship do not usually work: Try to stay away... Well unless you play the range game perfectly, and hit that sweet range 3 spot, Boba can just boost into range 1 and throw fully modified dice both on offence and on defense. Try to bump him... he is now at range one of at least one ship, and still gets his focus before he fires... well done.

So I was wondering, what do you think of Boba? Is he priced properly, is the problem just Han gunner, or is the problem that most player do not know how to play against such a ship?

How can we counter Boba in todays meta? One way is to use tractor beams (got to love those Quadjumpers), but are there other/better ways to handle him?

And finally, how should he be "nerfed"? Is a point increase the right way to go, should his ability be altered, or are there any other way to go? One idea my be to make the different Firespray-titles only available for their "right" pilots, eg. Boba can only equip Slave 1, Kath can only equip Marauder and so on. What do you think?

N`Kata

I've flown him a few times. With Guri and With Nym. He's good, but I lost with him against 4 ship rebel lists, and PS1 Strikers. Simply boosting into range 1 can get him melted by mass laser fire.

I think the hate-on for Boba is that he stacks tokens, in an edition of the game that claims to have reduced that kind of thing.

[SOTL 3,229]

6 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

 

At current cost, I'd put Fenn in the same tier as Boba and Whisper. Maybe a strict ranking would have him ahead of Boba, but his RNGesus reliance makes him an excellent exhibition player, and less good over a 6 round tournament.

 

You're aware that Fenn/Teroch utterly crushed day one of Coruscant with ridiculous MOV?

[Icelom 3,405]

14 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Generics are a victim of the 2.0 points cost system.  The compression of points costs make it too effective to upgrade to a named pilot most of the time, and the desperate search for dice mods mean pilot abilities that matter are massively worth purchasing now that the elite premium cost has come down.

Except for all the people complaining that generic swarms (bombers for example) are roasting them.

When I see all things being complained about I feel that the game is in a surprisingly good state... 

Generics seem to find there way into my lists and perform quite well for me. (the generic inquisitor is a freaking beast... and I have really been liking y-wings)

Even the list I have tried with boba fett had success in part a lot to the generic 7-95 in there running blocking.

Long story short I think you are wrong.

[Micanthropyre 991]

4 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

One thing that I've noticed, both in game and observed elsewhere is that players are quick to look for list building solutions to a problem over simply trying to set up a good engagement that mitigates or lessens powerful abilities. Good flying is definitely a perishable skill.

So the Boba thing is a combination of things:

I5 + Medium Base Boost + Han Tokenstack + Rear Arc (so blue manuevers are what you are taking anyway) + Excellent R1 Ability.

The only two special things about Boba are his ability and his initiative over the other Firesprays. Why didn't we see other firesprays at Coruscant?

[westiebestie 140]

The thing with Fenn though is that he's really good, but it's top tier skills that make him top tier. If you fly him sloppy, he melts.

2.0 is about flying!

[Micanthropyre 991]

2 minutes ago, SOTL said:

You're aware that Fenn/Teroch utterly crushed day one of Coruscant with ridiculous MOV?

Yes. He was played by a highly skilled player and die rolls could have been hot. Fenn is also probably the best Redline hunter in the game right now, but I don't think he's overpowered. I don't think he needs a points reduction either, he's a solid player right now that is very strong.