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Upsilon DOA for second edition? Umm....

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3 hours ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Or if a white stop for the Upsy is considered "too much"... an ability like: "When revealing your dial, If you are stressed, you may treat your stop maneuvers as white". This prevents normal actions, but you could still mod with the force and things like FCS.

How about a config with a charge that lets you treat a red maneuver as white. And you get that charge back when you do a blue. Then you can stand still for two turns, but you only get an action the first time if you choose to use the charge.

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19 hours ago, YourHucklebrry said:

A Pivot Wing title or something equivalent would go a long way. Not just competitively but also in the 'feels like the ship' sense, since it seemed pretty comfortable sitting above the gun line in TLJ indefinitely.

A pivot wing title that reduced its agility but gave it a white stop would be amazing.

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I really really hope it has *something* to make up for not being able to turn round.  Having no extra arcs and no turnarounds has historically been an absolute death sentence almost regardless or points and I can't see this being any different.  If even ONE ship gets behind it, it will lose.  Eventually.

(not that eventually)

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37 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Again.... Lambdas were considered among the stronger ships for a good while, before power creep got the better of them. 

Lambdas never killed anything, aside for the occasional miracle shot. All the work were always done by the escorts. they were excellent support ships because they were cheap. Period. Not to mention those considered “strong” lambdas had access to engine upgrade.

The power creep is already here. The overall game power may be toned down a few notches, but essentially, we got the full diversity of ships, and more or less, every ship performs the same as before. A large base, forward-arc locked, with no reposition is essentially a support-only ship, that MAY contribute one or two shots in the whole battle, three if lucky.

The Decimator is already with one foot in the 'unusable' line...  And it has primary turret… Go figure.

Edited by Jehan Menasis

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4 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Lambdas never killed anything, aside for the occasional miracle shot. All the work were always done by the escorts. they were excellent support ships because they were cheap. Period.

Really? I remember shuttles doing since work. The trick was to, for Jack of a better word, flank with the shuttle. You need the shuttle to find a path that allows it to follow the target while said target performs a turn-around maneuver. That means your other forces need to be a big enough threat to tempt the joust. This isn't too hard because most players know the shuttle can be targeted last because shuttles are awful in the end game.

But you do make a great point because Upsilon's are a threat in their own right with an attack value of 4, so your opponent will try to get behind it or destroy it as soon as possible, depending on the maneuverability of their ships. That increases the challenge for the Upsilon player. And we already expect they will be expensive, so there goes the "cheap support" role.

I still think there are flight paths you can take to increase the effectiveness of a fighty shuttle. At least its 6 shields help protect it from crit chains.

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2 hours ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Lambdas never killed anything, aside for the occasional miracle shot. All the work were always done by the escorts. they were excellent support ships because they were cheap. Period. Not to mention those considered “strong” lambdas had access to engine upgrade.

No, lambdas were very much used as combat ships. That’s where the term buzzsaw came from. They were difficult to fly and not forgiving of mistakes but they could definitely be used. 

for example, a quote from a thread in early 2014

Quote

Regionals everywhere this spring will be rife with Magic Space Cows

from this thread

 

As for engine upgrade, you’re right, that was necessary. But then the lambda only had a single turn, and it was red. Batwings have 3 turns, one of which is white, so it can actually turn as well as a lambda with engine upgrade could. 

 

Here is SableGryphon's 2 articles on flying the lambda. (not to say the specifics are at all relevant anymore, but just pointing out the Lambda, even with it's crappy dial, could be a viable combat ship.

 

 

Now the upsilon might not be as good as the lambda was back then, but to dismiss it out of hand based solely on the dial, which is far better than the lambda's was, is not enough of a reason.

 

Edited by Forgottenlore

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5 hours ago, JasonCole said:

We're seeing varying attack values for the YT-1300, but that's cross faction values (2 for the scummy one) vs 3 for rebels and resistance, as well as differing shield values. And Dash's new hole is ... weird... but that's one ship, so I'd agree, no real reason to go that way. I'm just trying to find some logic for the linked cannon on a 4d primary ship to begin with, and also hoping that the FO gets something interesting so that it's more than a shuttle, interceptor, and two tie variants. I'm also sort of counting on some sort of juicy mechanic that will make people want to run out and buy 1-2 more Upsilons, considering the absurd amount of dials the conversion comes with. IIRC you couldn't get 3 into a list in 1e could you? I can see people owning 3 falcons (barely), or 3 Lambdas (marginally) but come on, 3 upsilons? Every single person that buys a conversion kit is going to be throwing away 1-2 dials, unless they're hella cheap to put on the table, or have something interesting about them.

Well, the point of linked cannons is that you're not missing dice if you use a cannon.

For example, a TIE Defender has a 3-dice primary, and can equip a 3-dice ion cannon.  So it's a choice, whether you want full damage chances, or ion chances.

A ship with a 4-dice primary isn't ever going to want to fire a 3-dice Ion cannon because they get fewer dice, and would have literally no benefit from lining up a Heavy Laser Cannon.  So Linked Battery says "OK, to make it so that firing a cannon is a legit choice.  You'll get a 5-dice HLC shot if you line it up (which is probably really hard for an Upsilon).  You'll throw a 4-dice ion cannon attack; the same number of dice as with a primary attack.  Now the Upsilon has the same choice--damage or control tokens--that any other ship with a cannon gets.

If you want cannons--by and large balanced around a 3-dice primary attack--to make any sense on a 4-dice ship, you need to give the cannon an extra die.  It just brings the cannon into line with the power-level of the primary attack.

Edited by theBitterFig

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13 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I really really hope it has *something* to make up for not being able to turn round.  Having no extra arcs and no turnarounds has historically been an absolute death sentence almost regardless or points and I can't see this being any different.  If even ONE ship gets behind it, it will lose.  Eventually.

(not that eventually)

I agree - sadly, as I really like the batwing.

I guess, technically, as its upgrade slots is now in the App (or Pdf), then once FFG sees their mistake they could add a secondary turret-slot, however unthematically...

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Well, I'm still looking forward to it. I liked the Upsilon in 1.0 (flew a fat stridan with a chubby kylo). It's not a hanger back, it's meant to get stuck in, and can do so pretty successfully, imho. It has enough firepower to not be ignored, though that was with 1.0 gunner/fcs. I think it's available crew is going to make or break it. 12 health behind a 4 dice attack and you can't afford to ignore it if its looking you in the face, and if you do get behind it, better kill it quick, because it's not flying alone, and makes a pretty good anvil to swing hammers against.

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