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Vykk Draygo

Organized Play going to a restricted list on Ships and upgrades?

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Just now, pheaver said:

I was at Coruscant for the announcement, and asked some followup questions later.

Extended is still a thing, so people can use all their ships.  This Hyperspace format is replacing 2nd edition rerelease only, so there will be a mix of this format and extended for events.  They didn't really go into detail as to what format would be used where.

 

So there is no "2.0 rerelease only" format?

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11 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

So there is no "2.0 rerelease only" format?

Something just clicked for me.  If this is filling the 2.0 only void, it might be primarily their way of getting Resistance and First Order up to speed immediately.  Putting the resistance falcon and bomber and the silencer, special forces tie, and upsilon on the "allowed" list gets those factions up to speed immediately in the limited format.

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26 minutes ago, pheaver said:

I was at Coruscant for the announcement, and asked some followup questions later.

Extended is still a thing, so people can use all their ships.  This Hyperspace format is replacing 2nd edition rerelease only, so there will be a mix of this format and extended for events.  They didn't really go into detail as to what format would be used where.

 

Bless you. Thanks for clearing it up.

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17 minutes ago, pheaver said:

Exactly that.

And, if they think, for example, Scum is too powerful in the rerelease only format, they give them the M3A Interceptor and Jumpmaster as their plus ships, while they give the Attack Shuttle and Z-95 to a Rebels to buff them.  It's another balance lever.

 

 

For the sake of competitive balance, this is a solid move on FFG's part. I look forward to the puzzle of a fresh meta every six months, and not just "what new h*ckin monstrosity have they unleashed in the new wave".

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A narrower range of options just means the meta will get solved that much faster. Points adjustments in a wide open meta would be a better way to keep things fresh than just randomly banning people's favorite ships while keeping whatever flavor of Darth Vader, Luke and Boba around as a constant dominating force in the meta (Because FFG would have to be pretty stupid to ban the core movie ships right?). 

This type of thing will make some of the established tournament players happy, but it will drive away people that were on the fence about playing in tournaments.

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23 minutes ago, SOTL said:

X-Wing players make the NRA look like casuals when it comes to things being pried from fingers.

Yep.

These board go from bashing people who don't like the cost of conversion being told "you don't have to convert everything at once" to "WTF FFG why can't I play everything at once!!"

Tournament players are never going to play "anything they feel like" because they are always going to play the stuff that wins.  What this might do is force players to choose ships they might never have chosen on their own.

And, as was pointed out before, this is not a new concept in games (M:TG), it's just a new concept for XWM.

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38 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Tournament players are never going to play "anything they feel like" because they are always going to play the stuff that wins.  What this might do is force players to choose ships they might never have chosen on their own.

I resent that sentiment, though. As I’ve said, I’m not very established when it comes to any sort of tournaments—but the few I’ve gone to locally, I’ve flown what I wanted to, even after learning more about the meta. I changed a couple of upgrades per peoples’ suggestion, but I absolutely refuse to just look up the top lists and pick one to fly. I will build my own lists. And I don’t like the insinuation that I can’t/won’t be a tournament player because of it.

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This is exactly what I expected. They pretty much told us explicitly they were going to do this with the Hyperspace Trials article. I've copied and pasted this exact same bullet point multiple times now since it was published in early August. 

  • Each period of Hyperspace Trials will introduce new challenges and refresh the metagame with event-specific squad-building requirements. These will be communicated through the app.

If the Hyperspace Trials and Cups are guaranteed to have "event-specific squad-building requirements", then I personally believe that the World Championships will as well. Not positive it will even match the same requirements as either of the two sets of Hyperspace Trials leading to it.

They have already abandoned the concept of consistency in that respect when they created multiple paths (System Opens and Hyperspace Trials) and in holding two distinct sets of Hyperspace Trials, each with different legal list options, all leading to one World Championship. 

I think that the System Open Series will include opportunities to play in Extended format. Once you hit the Hyperspace level of competition though, well I expect there will be zero games in Extended format at that point. 

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57 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

 

Tournament players are never going to play "anything they feel like" because they are always going to play the stuff that wins.  What this might do is force players to choose ships they might never have chosen on their own.

 

Top tier yes, but toward the bottom tables the situation changes. In my experience, a hefty chunk of tournament attendance play what they like. 

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Why does everyone say the 2nd Edition format will be replaced?

It's still possible to have both formats, isn't it? I guess I can see an argument that the 2nd Ediiton format as is will not be good for certain factions but it still appeals to those of us who are not buying all of the conversion kits (I'm not getting the Res/FO/Scum ones, I've only gotten the Rebel/Imp ones and I'm good with that).

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4 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

The worst part of this idea is that you could be waiting all season for a ship to come back into play to be able to fly a certain combo, then the other ship or upgrade is out and you have to wait a whole ‘nother season for a chance.

Ugh I hope this isn’t as bad as it sounds. And at least we can always play however we want to at home.

Look, it’s just another season. Just like when Biggs left?

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20 minutes ago, CaptainIxidor said:

Why does everyone say the 2nd Edition format will be replaced?

It's still possible to have both formats, isn't it? I guess I can see an argument that the 2nd Ediiton format as is will not be good for certain factions but it still appeals to those of us who are not buying all of the conversion kits (I'm not getting the Res/FO/Scum ones, I've only gotten the Rebel/Imp ones and I'm good with that).

It’s still basically 2.0-only. It’s just balancing the factions, by the sound of things.

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I’m not sold on the idea. I will wait and see how it turns out, I was already considering turning the reins over to someone new to run our local OP, looks like I need to find someone just in case my feelings on most all of 2.0 OP doesn’t change. The game looks good, the game to play the game is getting less and less interesting with each passing day. 

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I think Second Edition format will still exist but only occasionally supported.  I imagine this is just Second Edition plus a handful of things, though, so it'll be mostly Second Edition.

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2 hours ago, SOTL said:

X-Wing players make the NRA look like casuals when it comes to things being pried from fingers.

Hey, hands off my guns and hands off my plastic crack! :) 

 

9 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Nonsense. Taking X-Wing miniatures to school to play with your friends is perfectly acceptable.

The jab doesn’t make sense at all in the context of SOTL’s post.... 

 

50 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

I think that the System Open Series will include opportunities to play in Extended format. Once you hit the Hyperspace level of competition though, well I expect there will be zero games in Extended format at that point. 

This would sadden me if extended format is relegated to alternative modes of play. Hopefully the system open series is primarily played with extended. Otherwise, I guess they’ve made my choice for me about if I even bother to try for it or not. I used to hit my local regionals and I made Adepticon last year, but the restrictive format just doesn’t appeal to me all that much.

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There have been a few threads talking about it, and some talk in threads not explicitly labeled for it. We can't really judge until we see their thinking about potential list building requirements.

I think that the most positive thing I can say about it is that it provides an incentive to buy new stuff (necessary for FFG to stay in business) that isn't overall power creep. They learned how dangerous that can be with 1.0 and are giving themselves multiple tools to fight it in 2.0.

Yes, dynamic point costs and upgrade slots are very good tools for this all on their own. They could just have different point cost/upgrade slots for ships in competitive formats without necessarily changing them in extended formats. So wanting to remove a problem with the gunboat in competitive play wouldn't necessarily nerf the ship in extended format lists as well. 

Smaller changes from several different fronts might really be more effective and less poorly received by a large vocal fanbase, even if the net effects on competitive play are very similar to what you might see from more heavy handed use of just one balancing tool. It's also probably less confusing to just remove certain options from competitive play than to have multiple lists of different point costs for each format. 

I dunno, it does sound interesting to try to understand  new and different list building requirements, but I hope it doesn't lead them to be too lazy in balancing the extended format itself. 

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1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

Top tier yes, but toward the bottom tables the situation changes. In my experience, a hefty chunk of tournament attendance play what they like. 

 

1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

I resent that sentiment, though. As I’ve said, I’m not very established when it comes to any sort of tournaments—but the few I’ve gone to locally, I’ve flown what I wanted to, even after learning more about the meta. I changed a couple of upgrades per peoples’ suggestion, but I absolutely refuse to just look up the top lists and pick one to fly. I will build my own lists. And I don’t like the insinuation that I can’t/won’t be a tournament player because of it.

The design of this game has always been about top table meta, IMHO.  It's why there is no narrative play and why Epic is AWOL.

That used to only hurt casuals who were looking for non-standard play ideas.

Now it might affect "casual tournamenters" who want to fly whatever they like competitively.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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52 minutes ago, CaptainIxidor said:

Why does everyone say the 2nd Edition format will be replaced?

It's still possible to have both formats, isn't it? I guess I can see an argument that the 2nd Ediiton format as is will not be good for certain factions but it still appeals to those of us who are not buying all of the conversion kits (I'm not getting the Res/FO/Scum ones, I've only gotten the Rebel/Imp ones and I'm good with that).

If all you own is 2.0 ships, you can still play in Extended events just fine. Right now the list that has been the strongest for me in Extended play is actually a 2.0 legal list. All of the 2.0 ships are doing great in Extended right now, Boba+Fenn+Lando, Vader+Reaper, Swarm Tactics X-Wings, Luke+Wedge+Norra, etc.

It is much harder for Extended players to adjust to 2.0 than vice versa. If you're a 2.0 player, you don't have to do anything different to play Extended. 

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The rotating format might cause some serious balance issues. 

 

In a full edition format, they can do iterations: release something new, adjust points, see how the dust settles, rinse and repeat. 

 

In a rotating format however, they need to select balanced subsets of each faction every X months, and they need to get it right the first time, since unless they keep a very long time between rotating ships, there will be little room for iterations. 

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