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Vykk Draygo

Organized Play going to a restricted list on Ships and upgrades?

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So I came here expecting to see massive discussions on this topic. I’ve heard there will be point balances twice a year and only some ships and upgrades will be allowed, it sounds more like rotation to me. First points balances and “Hyperspace” legal ships and upgrades coming in January. Anyone else hearing this? Thoughts and discussions?

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Whaaaat?

I haven’t gone to many tournaments, but as @LordBlades mentions this could make me less likely to go to them in the future.

I like flying my favorite ships, and while I’ve enjoyed being encouraged to try new things, this sounds like it could make things less fun.

 

Still, let’s wait to see exactly what this looks like before we worry or complain too much. It might just be a couple ships that aren’t allowed, it might be more like “Second Edition Only” with just a few choice ships from extended allowed.

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If this comes, i will stop attending tournaments that stick to it. Pretty simple.

I would have no problem if they did themed tournaments once in a while, but the standard needs to remain all ships and upgrades legal.

Instead, if they want tournaments to be more varied, they should start by giving us half a dozen scenarios that are randomly picked and need to be played.

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7 minutes ago, ForceM said:

 

I would have no problem if they did themed tournaments once in a while, but the standard needs to remain all ships and upgrades legal.

There is virtually zero chance that this will be the case.  FFG need you to be playing their new game and buying their new ships, so they will be working hard to ensure you can't just buy the conversion kit and nothing else for the next 3 years.

It's just business.

I guess the real question is just how big that curated list is.  I expect it to be fairly small, though.

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The worst part of this idea is that you could be waiting all season for a ship to come back into play to be able to fly a certain combo, then the other ship or upgrade is out and you have to wait a whole ‘nother season for a chance.

Ugh I hope this isn’t as bad as it sounds. And at least we can always play however we want to at home.

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The game is starting with 14 waves out. If they don't introduce somekind of "rotation" the meta would stale pretty fast. 

I really like this idea as it makes introduces the same kind of uncertainty that happena with every release, but without the need to actually release an stronger upgrade or ship to replace the older ones.

I do hope however that the season's pools is wide enough for players that do not have a large collection dont feel that they can't be competitive.

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32 minutes ago, drail14me said:

Is this not what we already knew about tournaments being either 2.0 or Extended? 

No, we now know they're neither they're this third format instead.

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Wait, what’s going on here?

If they’re going to say “sure you can play with your old ships, except you can’t really” that’s going to be a huge pain point for existing players who bought those conversions with the understanding they could.

I get the whole 2.0 only format, and that’s fine for some events.... but the primary format for premiere events should legally allow any 2.0 content, not just rereleases or chosen ships/cards.

 

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29 minutes ago, drail14me said:

Is this not what we already knew about tournaments being either 2.0 or Extended? 

Yeah, then this is the point where for myself i will play only extended format. And if shop championships (cause that’s the level i compete anyway) are 2.0. They will be without me.

I have all those ships and cards, and it’s not like they were free. And the conversion kits weren’t either. So i want to play them all competitively and friendly.

This is also a way were i have seen another miniature game go broke already. Uncalled for seasonal banlists, and the playerbase wasn’t aboard. I think the game is now lying somewhere in it’s last breaths.

This is not Magic or another card game where this kind of cycling the cards is needed to keep it new and fresh.

 

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1 minute ago, ForceM said:

This is not Magic or another card game where this kind of cycling the cards is needed to keep it new and fresh.

Boy does the internet have a short memory. This was exactly the kind of state the 1st Edition was in for probably over a year or so.

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1 minute ago, __underscore__ said:

Boy does the internet have a short memory. This was exactly the kind of state the 1st Edition was in for probably over a year or so.

Apples and oranges.

First edition suffered from a broken power curve and failed to have a mechanism to rectify it. The new waves would just upgrade the same old broken things unless a new chassis was super broken.

2.0 has knocked the power curve a considerable bit. This is good. It should not mean things are left unplayable just “so the meta is fresh”. Between new releases and the point/slot updates, ffg can do that to their hearts content without banning any product from Organized Play.

This limited format for events will not go well for a lot of us. I’m out for one, in that case. I’ll just run games at the LGS in standard extended format - if the app lets you build it great, it’s legal.

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5 minutes ago, SOTL said:

How about you wait to find out what it is before you decide you don't want it?

First, that flies in the face of the workings of the internet :) 

Ok, joking aside... I don’t really like the idea of having product that isn’t legal to play. Particularly because of arbitrary discussion. To me, it makes no sense to have produced a product and then say “oh by the way, you can’t use it”.

I get the 2.0 rerelease only format because of the argument “have a newer player friendly environment”. Having two parallel worlds (with and without conversion kit materials) is fine to me. There’s a logical reason to it.

The idea of nothing deciding what isn’t legal at a time except for arbitrary seasonal choices doesn’t seem healthy to me. “Because we can” does not a good reason make.

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2 points corrections a year seems acceptable, though I'd prefer an adjustment timed with each new wave release. 

 

I won't judge the rest until I see the actual announcement. I'm hoping there aren't arbitrary bans, but I won't be surprised when 2.0 to become the standard tournament format after roughly 50% of 1.0 ships are rereleased and/or as soon as the 2 newest factions have a large enough selection to compete with the existing 5.

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Do we have any details yet or just a statement of intent? Before anyone goes off the deep end stop and think for a minute. FFG might have come up with this idea to include as many players as possible during the transition to 2e. Extended for players that have everything, 2e for new players and the restricted lists as a first step into objective gaming. 

I can see the restricted lists as a test case for scenario or objective play. Could be interesting.

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20 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

First, that flies in the face of the workings of the internet :) 

Ok, joking aside... I don’t really like the idea of having product that isn’t legal to play. Particularly because of arbitrary discussion. To me, it makes no sense to have produced a product and then say “oh by the way, you can’t use it”.

I get the 2.0 rerelease only format because of the argument “have a newer player friendly environment”. Having two parallel worlds (with and without conversion kit materials) is fine to me. There’s a logical reason to it.

The idea of nothing deciding what isn’t legal at a time except for arbitrary seasonal choices doesn’t seem healthy to me. “Because we can” does not a good reason make.

LOL at that first line. 

To your other points, I agree. And I would also add, why do we need ban lists at all if we have adjustable points? I kinda thought the whole point (very lame pun intended) of having adjustable points is so we DON'T need a ban list. In 1e people were asking for TLT and other bans constantly, when a 1-3 point increase (depending who you asked) would have made a huge difference, and still let them be playable.

On on adjustment schedule I sorta get only adjusting the points twice a year, and like that it will be a fixed schedule so we know when it's coming, but I'd prefer more frequent, smaller updates (I'm assuming of course at only twice a year there will be a LOT of changes every time).

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I didn't play any tournaments in 1.0 due to a series of pretty negative experiences, I was considering it for 2.0 but if I can't use all the stuff I've just paid serious cash to get the conversion kits for then I don't see anything to motivate me to play any tournaments in 2.0.  I will stick with playing on my dining room table with my friends.

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I was at Coruscant for the announcement, and asked some followup questions later.

Extended is still a thing, so people can use all their ships.  This Hyperspace format is replacing 2nd edition rerelease only, so there will be a mix of this format and extended for events.  They didn't really go into detail as to what format would be used where.

 

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