Reviews? Sell me on/off?

[sndwurks 1,257]

So, I am just going to put it out there, regarding this Question 7...

From a sheer "Game" stand point, if any player every-ever chooses "Model member of the Clan" for the +5 Glory (and not because it is central to their concept), I am going to stop and stare at them in vague disbelief. Because Skill Ranks in the new L5R RPG is SO MUCH MORE important than being 5 points closer (which WILL come and go) to MAYBE rerolling 2 dice because you are famous about something.

[Hida Jitenno 586]

12 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

So, I am just going to put it out there, regarding this Question 7...

From a sheer "Game" stand point, if any player every-ever chooses "Model member of the Clan" for the +5 Glory (and not because it is central to their concept), I am going to stop and stare at them in vague disbelief. Because Skill Ranks in the new L5R RPG is SO MUCH MORE important than being 5 points closer (which WILL come and go) to MAYBE rerolling 2 dice because you are famous about something.

On the other hand... if they don't want to be the black sheep of the clan for one skill rank... I'm going to support that decision because they're clearly thinking about their character rather than the metagame.

[sndwurks 1,257]

5 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

On the other hand... if they don't want to be the black sheep of the clan for one skill rank... I'm going to support that decision because they're clearly thinking about their character rather than the metagame.

As I said.... You had BETTER be making that choice because of RP reasons. If you are making the choice for game advantage reasons, it is a terrible idea.

[Magnus Grendel 11,672]

Yes and no:

Relevant quotes from the beta:
 

Quote

 

If your character has a fundamental disagreement with their clan’s beliefs, policies, or practices and has defied these in the past, gain one rank of one skill in which they have 0 ranks

The recommended rate of experience gain is 2 XP per hour of play

Skill rank +1

2 XP x rank purchased

None

 

Since you're only ever gaining a rank 1 in a skill, you're effectively choosing between spending only your first hour of gameplay at rank 0 instead of rank 1 of that skill, or 5 points of glory which is no small chunk, up there with being a victorious commander in a battle. It is, admittedly, never going to net you a fame advantage, and I agree it's probably a better choice, but what you're giving up is actually fairly trivial.

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

19 hours ago, sndwurks said:

As I said.... You had BETTER be making that choice because of RP reasons. If you are making the choice for game advantage reasons, it is a terrible idea.

If you're selecting the glory for game advantage reasons, the issue is self-correcting, since one F&#*up and it's gone... and the glory is the less mechanically advantageous choice.

[AK_Aramis 1,002]

 

18 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Yes and no:

Relevant quotes from the beta:
 

Since you're only ever gaining a rank 1 in a skill, you're effectively choosing between spending only your first hour of gameplay at rank 0 instead of rank 1 of that skill, or 5 points of glory which is no small chunk, up there with being a victorious commander in a battle. It is, admittedly, never going to net you a fame advantage, and I agree it's probably a better choice, but what you're giving up is actually fairly trivial.

Not one hour, one session, as almost all groups will be getting their XP at end of session... not mid session. (Unless you're playing at lunch or somesuch.)

[shosuko 2,174]

I think the better option would have been "You agree with your clan" for +5 Glory, and "You disagree with your clan" for changing your clan or family ring bonus to another element.

[Hida Jitenno 586]

12 hours ago, shosuko said:

I think the better option would have been "You agree with your clan" for +5 Glory, and "You disagree with your clan" for changing your clan or family ring bonus to another element.

I always viewed clan and family ring bonuses as your genetic pre-dispositions. "Your parents were tall so you're tall" sort of thing.

Not to mention, we've already had a debate about whether 5 glory is worth losing the 2XP-equivalent for a new skill. Instead you're suggesting a 6XP+ equivalent in exchange for 5 glory?

At that point, even I would be squinting at the player who chose 5 glory instead.

[Scairp 1]

I've got the same issues with Question 7 - I'm already thinking about homebrewing "agree with clan" so a player can either choose an additional starting skill from their school (rank 0 to 1 only), or take the rank in the "unconventional samurai skill." 

[sndwurks 1,257]

Ironically, my game theory hat changed thoughts on this one last night.

In specific, since you only gain School Rank by spending XP, not by having ranks in Skills, it's the tactical decision in Character Creation to avoid gaining Skill ranks in Skills at 0 whenever possible. The way Character Advancement works if I read it correctly, if I am at 18 XP spent on my Curriculum, and I spend 6 XP in Curriculum buying a Skill to 3, I hit School Rank 2 and get no benefit from my remaining 4 XP spent on that Skill. So, I should always keep my Curriculum Skills at rank 0 so I can nickle and dime myself up a School Rank, and not waste XP.

And before the "STORY BEFORE RULES!" people start screaming at me again... this is just game theory. This is not looking at ACTUAL application of how to play this game. It is just my Game Designer brain poking at the systems in odd ways and places.

[shosuko 2,174]

11 hours ago, Hida Jitenno said:

I always viewed clan and family ring bonuses as your genetic pre-dispositions. "Your parents were tall so you're tall" sort of thing.

Not to mention, we've already had a debate about whether 5 glory is worth losing the 2XP-equivalent for a new skill. Instead you're suggesting a 6XP+ equivalent in exchange for 5 glory?

At that point, even I would be squinting at the player who chose 5 glory instead.

I counter your assessment that these are "genetic pre-dispositions" with the fact that nothing about your rings is physical.  Its basically a personality breakdown.  How good are you at being clever?  How well do you perform when you need to be showy?  How well do you navigate the give and take of a situation?  These aren't things like "you're tall and your eyes are blue."  In fact, I think it fits very well with this question to adjust what rings you're getting.  "Do you do things the way your clan does?" sounds more like a reference to rings than that you picked up a bit of theology while at Bushi school.

Rings are capped at 3 in chargen so there is no room for abuse.  Certain clan + family + school combinations will naturally give you either a 3/3/2/1/1, 3/2/2/2/1, or 2/2/2/2/2.  The experience disparity of not having the focused chargen is about 3-6 xp already.  While you say this change would "give them 6 xp" the reality is it just gives them that xp back... because that's how much xp you are starting behind if you don't take the focused paths...

In the Beta they did already attempt to fix this issue by giving every family an option between 2 rings, but there are still situations where a character can get shafted during creation because they don't play by the cookie cutter.  Anything that isn't 3/3/2/1/1 in chargen is behind in xp.  If you want to be a Lion clan, Ikoma family, Kitsu shugenja school character who stands out by being flashy or passionate you get 3 water, 2 air, 2 fire, 2 void, 1 earth.  Disagreeing with their family's approach of being either clever or flexible, preferring to take on tasks in a more direct and inspired manner they can't dump the +1 air for a +1 fire, and instead get penalized 3 xp as they play catch up with everyone else.

Maybe its something you don't care about - honestly its not something I care greatly about as most people will simply play to the cookie cutters anyway... but I think this question is the best point to address any stat / xp balance issues, rather than giving someone a free skill or 5 glory.  Who would pick 5 glory?  5 glory can come and go very quick...  If you act gloriously you would have gained it anyway, if you act ingloriously you will still tank it.  5 glory is not worth dropping a free skill imo

Edited October 13, 2018 by shosuko