'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Negative Buzz Amplified by Russian Trolls, Study Finds

[Ambaryerno 399]

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

Do you think he was raised to be primarily a janitor or a soldier?

Considering just how piss-poor of a soldier he constantly proves to be?

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

Just now, Ambaryerno said:

Considering just how piss-poor of a soldier he constantly proves to be?

Do you want to keep evading the question or do you want to answer and have an actual discussion?

He says: "I was raised to do one thing... but I've got nothing to fight for."

That second half helps us understand what he was raised to do: to fight. So again: do you think we was raised to be primarily a janitor or a soldier?

[Zarovichx 128]

  

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Do you want to keep evading the question or do you want to answer and have an actual discussion?

He says: "I was raised to do one thing... but I've got nothing to fight for."

That second half helps us understand what he was raised to do: to fight. So again: do you think we was raised to be primarily a janitor or a soldier?

I would vote janitor since he makes a very bad soldier. He is a huge combat liability and has shown to be for both sides.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

3 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

  

I would vote janitor since he makes a very bad soldier. He is a huge combat liability and has shown to be for both sides.

So you are seriously saying the thing in "I was raised to do one thing... but I've got nothing to fight for." refers to being a janitor?

[Ambaryerno 399]

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

So you are seriously saying the thing in "I was raised to do one thing... but I've got nothing to fight for." refers to being a janitor?

Haven't you ever heard of Roger Wilco?

[Zarovichx 128]

@GreenDragoon

Yes, why not. The movies are littered with inconsistencies.

Phasma is supposed to be a super trooper according to source material but in the movies she has become a "They killed Kennny" joke.

Snoke is supposedly some powerful Sith Lord but gets killed while monologuing by someone that can't even defeat an untrained Rey.

Luke is suppose to be a jedi master but gets bested in a sword dual by an untrained padawan.

So sure, why can't Finn's statement of doing Sanitation on Starkiller base be accurate? I did KP duty a few times in basic training but when asked "What I did there" never did the thought of responding with "KP Duty" crossed my mind.

 

[Ambaryerno 399]

4 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

Phasma is supposed to be a super trooper according to source material but in the movies she has become a "They killed Kennny" joke. 

I hope she stays dead this time. It really is getting embarrassing at this point.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

4 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

Haven't you ever heard of Roger Wilco?

So you keep evading then?

2 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

@GreenDragoon

Yes, why not. The movies are littered with inconsistencies.

Phasma is supposed to be a super trooper according to source material but in the movies she has become a "They killed Kennny" joke.

Snoke is supposedly some powerful Sith Lord but gets killed while monologuing by someone that can't even defeat an untrained Rey.

Luke is suppose to be a jedi master but gets bested in a sword dual by an untrained padawan.

So sure, why can't Finn's statement of doing Sanitation on Starkiller base be accurate? I did KP duty a few times in basic training but when asked "What I did there" never did the thought of responding with "KP Duty" crossed my mind.

 

I just wanted to be sure.

That would be another example for FTSGecko how some criticism is simply dismissed. Because intentionally misinterpreting dialogue to that degree is baffling and warrants no discussion.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

43 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

He was in Sanitation on Starkiller Base. He mopped the floors aboard the Supremacy. He's not saying his unit had sanitation detail while on garrison duty. He's outright saying several times throughout the FILM that he WAS the janitor.

And because you edited that in without notice:

Of course he won't say his unit had sanitation detail because he's specifically asked what HE has been doing. Do you want to have clunky PT dialogues back? Because that's how you get them back.

[Zarovichx 128]

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

And because you edited that in without notice:

Of course he won't say his unit had sanitation detail because he's specifically asked what HE has been doing. Do you want to have clunky PT dialogues back? Because that's how you get them back.

I think your missing the point. Finn's career path in FO was as a Janitor. His combat training comes along with it just like it did for me in the Air Force but combat was not my primary job.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

1 minute ago, Zarovichx said:

I think your missing the point. Finn's career path in FO was as a Janitor. His combat training comes along with it just like it did for me in the Air Force but combat was not my primary job.

So you still haven't taken a look at the texts then? Because Finn was excelling as soldier in an already exemplary class.

[Zarovichx 128]

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

So you still haven't taken a look at the texts then? Because Finn was excelling as soldier in an already exemplary class.

Phasma is supposed to be a Super Soldier in the books too but is a chump in the movies.

Fett is another stud in the books(fought Vader to a tie) but died to a blind man in the movies. Yes I'm aware he lived in the books but many don't observe this view. But he did get owned by a blind Han regardless.

The books tend to make characters Super Saiyan powered up is my point.

[Ambaryerno 399]

14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

So you still haven't taken a look at the texts then? Because Finn was excelling as soldier in an already exemplary class.

Which is completely contradicted by the films, where he's often depicted as cowardly and only wanting to run away from the fight (IE, NOT excelling as a soldier). About the only thing he demonstrates some actual competency with is shooting a blaster, but being a good shot does not make you a good soldier.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Ambaryerno

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

1 hour ago, Zarovichx said:

Phasma is supposed to be a Super Soldier in the books too but is a chump in the movies.

Fett is another stud in the books(fought Vader to a tie) but died to a blind man in the movies. Yes I'm aware he lived in the books but many don't observe this view. But he did get owned by a blind Han regardless.

The books tend to make characters Super Saiyan powered up is my point.

The difference is that the new books are official canon. And they can explain how something was intended to be understood.

 

But just to make sure: @Ambaryerno says that the movie is ambiguous on whether Finn was a janitor or a soldier. You however are saying that the movie wants to portray him as soldier but is inconsistent between what they say and what they show?

Edited October 22, 2018 by GreenDragoon
JJ48 does not think so

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

Just now, Ambaryerno said:

Which is completely contradicted by the films, where he's often depicted as cowardly and only wanting to run away from the fight (IE, NOT excelling as a soldier). About the only thing he demonstrates some actual competency with is shooting a blaster, but being a good shot does not make you a good soldier.

So it's not contradicting the movie but saying exactly the same thing?

"where he's often depicted as cowardly and only wanting to run away from the fight": exactly as in the book. He freezes up as soon as civilians are involved.

"the only thing he demonstrates some actual competency with is shooting a blaster, but being a good shot does not make you a good soldier.": exactly as in the book. There he has amazing accuracy but fails to shoot people he thinks innocent.

 

So is the book contradicting the movie or not?

[SabineKey 6,348]

34 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

@

Luke is suppose to be a jedi master but gets bested in a sword dual by an untrained padawan.

 

Is this referring to his fight with Rey?

[Ambaryerno 399]

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

So it's not contradicting the movie but saying exactly the same thing?

"where he's often depicted as cowardly and only wanting to run away from the fight": exactly as in the book. He freezes up as soon as civilians are involved. 

"the only thing he demonstrates some actual competency with is shooting a blaster, but being a good shot does not make you a good soldier.": exactly as in the book. There he has amazing accuracy but fails to shoot people he thinks innocent.

 

So is the book contradicting the movie or not?

You said the books state that Finn was an "exemplary soldier." Now you're trying to use the book version of the Jakku attack to prove your point even though it's showing the EXACT SAME THING that discredits the "exemplary soldier" bit in the first place. to top that off, now you're moving the goalposts by saying "Oh, there were civilians involved."

[Zarovichx 128]

7 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Is this referring to his fight with Rey?

Yes, she knocks him down and forces him to yield with the light saber in his face.

[SabineKey 6,348]

2 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

Yes, she knocks him down and forces him to yield with the light saber in his face.

Yeah, that’s what happens. Thus, I don’t see how your criticism works. If you look at the scene, Jedi Master Luke is owning Rey when they are fighting with sticks. It takes switching to a weapon he doesn’t have a good defense for that swings the fight in her favor. 

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

Just now, Ambaryerno said:

Now you're trying to use the book version of the Jakku attack to prove your point even though it's showing the EXACT SAME THING that discredits the "exemplary soldier" bit in the first place. to top that off, now you're moving the goalposts by saying "Oh, there were civilians involved." 

What if I told you that Jakku wasn't the first time he freezes up?

So, not moving the goal posts, and not using Jakku, eh?

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

5 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

Yes, she knocks him down and forces him to yield with the light saber in his face.

 

The scene where Luke hits her and disarms her before she pulls a lightsaber against his antenna.

Anyone with some martial arts training knows that at some point only very harsh measures work against certain threats, and Luke clearly wasn't willing to severly injure Rey. Of course he concedes to calm her down.

[Zarovichx 128]

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

Yeah, that’s what happens. Thus, I don’t see how your criticism works. If you look at the scene, Jedi Master Luke is owning Rey when they are fighting with sticks. It takes switching to a weapon he doesn’t have a good defense for that swings the fight in her favor. 

Yes but I don't see Yoda, Mace or Vader ever letting a pupil get that kind of upper hand in any fight and completely disrespect them.

[Ambaryerno 399]

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

What if I told you that Jakku wasn't the first time he freezes up?

So, not moving the goal posts, and not using Jakku, eh?

And that only FURTHER reinforces the bit about him being an "exemplary soldier" is bunk.

[SabineKey 6,348]

3 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

Yes but I don't see Yoda, Mace or Vader ever letting a pupil get that kind of upper hand in any fight and completely disrespect them.

But Luke isn’t any of those people. Vader was a Sith Lord, thus wouldn’t have a problem injuring a pupil. Yoda wouldn’t have let that situation evolve, and I don’t think Mace would either.

Luke is a different person than your three examples and is in a situation only one of them (Yoda) has come close to in their lives. And once again, Yoda’s way of handling a difficult pupil (Luke himself) is based on his character, thus different than Luke’s.

Your examples lack the same context as Luke, therefore I’m not sure they actually illustrate the point you want to get across.

[GreenDragoon 9,567]

Just now, Ambaryerno said:

And that only FURTHER reinforces the bit about him being an "exemplary soldier" is bunk.

Are you saying the book is wrong when it suits you, and right when it suits you? Because that would be called cherry picking. Or are you saying that no soldier ever was exemplary in basic and exercises but broke when facing actual combat?

What you call bunk is actually called a character arc: Finn has everything it takes to be a great soldier and infantry leader, but he needs a cause he believes in. Coincidentally that is exactly what he tells us in the movie, too: "I was raised to do one thing... but I've got nothing to fight for." Or maybe it's not a coincidence. Maybe it is his character arc, that he first finds Rey as cause in TFA, and then later expands that to the Resistance in TLJ. Funny how that works.

And before you are going with a "morale doesn't matter": let me show you a page from an actual book written by a Marine Captain:

Finn does not view his cause in the First Order as just and ethical, which affects his enthusiasm and discipline to an extreme degree. Joining the Resistance fixes that and makes him the exemplary soldier he was in training.