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'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Negative Buzz Amplified by Russian Trolls, Study Finds

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1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

Joining the Resistance fixes that and makes him the exemplary soldier he was in training.

And subsequently tries to run away AGAIN and only sticks around because he got tasered in the escape pod.

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2 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

And subsequently tries to run away AGAIN and only sticks around because he got tasered in the escape pod.

He hadn't joined the resistance yet...

edit: and before you try to misconstrue this: He hadn't identified as resistance fighter/rebel yet. That is independent from working together with them

Edited by GreenDragoon

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@GreenDragoon

Finn is not portrayed as an exemplary soldier under the Resistance. He turns coward and tries to flee them in both movies. And don't use the argument about him trying to protect Rey in TLJ. If he wanted to protect her from the FO ambush, he would of destroyed the tracking device so she couldn't locate them.

@SabineKey

Luke comes across as weak. Rey just learned the force existed two days prior and already shown up the son of the chosen one....

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Just now, Zarovichx said:

Finn is not portrayed as an exemplary soldier under the Resistance. He turns coward and tries to flee them in both movies. And don't use the argument about him trying to protect Rey in TLJ. If he wanted to protect her from the FO ambush, he would of destroyed the tracking device so she couldn't locate them.

His character arc in TLJ is that he has to find a cause. So he shouldn't be like an exemplary soldier until he fights Phasma and says "Rebel Scum", which is where he starts identifying as Rebel and finds a cause he wants to fight for.

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5 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

@GreenDragoon

Finn is not portrayed as an exemplary soldier under the Resistance. He turns coward and tries to flee them in both movies. And don't use the argument about him trying to protect Rey in TLJ. If he wanted to protect her from the FO ambush, he would of destroyed the tracking device so she couldn't locate them.

@SabineKey

Luke comes across as weak. Rey just learned the force existed two days prior and already shown up the son of the chosen one....

But not through Force Mastery. She’s “showing him up” with a deadly weapon. Once again, Luke is clearly not breaking a sweat in the fight when they both had comparable weapons, even disarming Rey. Watch the scene. If they both had lightsabers, Luke could have killed her if he wanted. But he didn’t have a lightsaber and he didn’t want to kill her.

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Which adds another inconsistency to this trilogy.  The FO is as much as the rebel scum as the Resistance is. The Galaxy is governed by the Republic not the FO.

Besides did Rian really need to make this trilogy seem like the retelling of the Empire vs Rebellion story again? We already got this vibe from TFA but he double downed on it in TLJ. 

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8 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

But not through Force Mastery. She’s “showing him up” with a deadly weapon. Once again, Luke is clearly not breaking a sweat in the fight when they both had comparable weapons, even disarming Rey. Watch the scene. If they both had lightsabers, Luke could have killed her if he wanted. But he didn’t have a lightsaber and he didn’t want to kill her.

She shows him up with Force Mastery at the end of TLJ with lifting 30 boulders at once and doing it with no training and learning the force existed 2 days prior.

Luke had a hard lifting a single rock under Yoda's training...granted he was doing a hand stand at the time but still 30>1.

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1 minute ago, Zarovichx said:

 

She shows him up with Force Mastery at the end of TLJ with lifting 30 boulders at once and doing it with no training and learning the force existed 2 days prior.

Luke had a hard lifting a single rock under Yoda's training...granted he was doing a hand stand at the time but still 30>1.

Size matters not, neither does quantity. All this says is that Rey has fewer constraints to what she believes possible, which kind of makes sense given Lukes upbringing under his uncle.

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9 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

Which adds another inconsistency to this trilogy.  The FO is as much as the rebel scum as the Resistance is. The Galaxy is governed by the Republic not the FO.

Besides did Rian really need to make this trilogy seem like the retelling of the Empire vs Rebellion story again? We already got this vibe from TFA but he double downed on it in TLJ. 

Wow.

10 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

The FO is as much as the rebel scum as the Resistance is. The Galaxy is governed by the Republic not the FO.

This is wrong in so many ways in such a short sentence:

  • "Scum" doesn't mean "opposed to the government of a majority of systems"
  • the Republic has not control of the whole galaxy
  • that government is destroyed at the moment we're discussing, and the FO is in charge
  • The "Scum" in the short exchange is simply an insult. And Finn saying "Rebel" is very clearly meant to be "against the FO"
10 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

 

She shows him up with Force Mastery at the end of TLJ with lifting 30 boulders at once and doing it with no training and learning the force existed 2 days prior.

Luke had a hard lifting a single rock under Yoda's training...granted he was doing a hand stand at the time but still 30>1.

This is only confusing if you don't get the two characters. Rey had a different problem, and she had seen and used the force numerous times when she got to that point. Very much unlike Luke.

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2 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

 

She shows him up with Force Mastery at the end of TLJ with lifting 30 boulders at once and doing it with no training and learning the force existed 2 days prior.

Luke had a hard lifting a single rock under Yoda's training...granted he was doing a hand stand at the time but still 30>1.

But that’s a separate scene from what you started with. You claimed Rey beating Luke demonstrated this, but you haven’t exactly proved that. Do you have anything else to defend your original point?

Now, for your separate point of Rey showing up Luke at the end. This has a better basis, but we are also being led to believe this is a new era of the Force. Heck, even the kid at the end is using the Force instinctually, without training. 

And while I do think @Admiral Deathrain hit it on the head with his post above (a difference in what is believed possible being a huge difference), I would also like to mention for completeness that under Yoda’s tutelage, Luke was lifting multiple rocks, crates of supplies, and R2 while doing a hand stand and looking into the future. You are kind of under selling him with your proclamation of “only one rock.”

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2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

The problem with both this study and your suggested one just provide a label to throw out to negate a point of view. I don't think any of the users who have posted in this thread about their dislike for TLJ are Russian bots, thus should not be ignored as such. Even if the conclusions of the study that sparked this thread are correct (I don’t know, I have not looked into it myself), there still are people out there who dislike TLJ and they shouldn’t have their opinions thrown away because bots were programmed to echo a similar sentiment.

And this is all still true when you switch sides with your suggested study. There would still be non-“npc” Defenders who also should not be dismissed for the labels of others. 

Thus we are left with two group who disagree, which is what we started with. The studies might be interesting, but both are, in my opinion, ultimately useless.

It was more of an offhand thought than anything and I agree with you. My issue with this study was the whole Russian bots thing to start then the methodology once I read the whole thing, the NPC business just happened to flare up since then and I find the comparison amusing.

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8 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

But that’s a separate scene from what you started with. You claimed Rey beating Luke demonstrated this, but you haven’t exactly proved that. Do you have anything else to defend your original point?

Now, for your separate point of Rey showing up Luke at the end. This has a better basis, but we are also being led to believe this is a new era of the Force. Heck, even the kid at the end is using the Force instinctually, without training. 

And while I do think @Admiral Deathrain hit it on the head with his post above (a difference in what is believed possible being a huge difference), I would also like to mention for completeness that under Yoda’s tutelage, Luke was lifting multiple rocks, crates of supplies, and R2 while doing a hand stand and looking into the future. You are kind of under selling him with your proclamation of “only one rock.”

Yes, I do realize there is a difference between George's Star Wars and Disney's. The characters are treated differently, the sandbox rules have changed, and the creativity or lack of it has changed too.

Now if this is a good change, Episode 9 will most likely determine this on its sales.

I suspect Phasma will return just in time for her triple death scene...

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12 minutes ago, McFoy said:

It was more of an offhand thought than anything and I agree with you. My issue with this study was the whole Russian bots thing to start then the methodology once I read the whole thing, the NPC business just happened to flare up since then and I find the comparison amusing.

Like I said, I haven’t read it and/or vetted it’s methodology. True or not, it really doesn’t matter to me. I have family members who don’t like TLJ and I’m going to go out on a limb here and say they aren’t Russian bots. Though, we also settled on agreeing to disagree a long time ago. 

The whole NPC business is also one of those situations where it feels too easily employed to just label and ignore someone, so it likewise has my distaste.

Edited by SabineKey

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2 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

Yes, I do realize there is a difference between George's Star Wars and Disney's. The characters are treated differently, the sandbox rules have changed, and the creativity or lack of it has changed too.

Now if this is a good change, Episode 9 will most likely determine this on its sales.

I suspect Phasma will return just in time for her triple death scene...

But it’s not just the difference that disprove your point, it’s what stayed the same. Reference Deathrain’s post again. 

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It is time for me to abandon the thread. Feel free to pm me if you really want to keep going because a point is unclear.

I apologize for my tone, as it can get rather frustrating at times, and please let me know if I misrepresented your point of view (which was not intentional if it happened). But I remain convinced of the content of what I said, and my way to read and judge the sources I put forward.

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Yeah, I'm bowing out too. This debate has been going on for about 10 months now, in one form or another. I think it is past time to just agree to disagree. Neither side has really convinced the other of anything and I can't really imagine that's going to change anytime soon.

I'm still happy to say I enjoyed TLJ and if you didn't, that's okay by me. 

Edited by SabineKey

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28 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Yeah, I'm bowing out too. This debate has been going on for about 10 months now, in one form or another. I think it is past time to just agree to disagree. Neither side has really convinced the other of anything and I can't really imagine that's going to change anytime soon.

I'm still happy to say I enjoyed TLJ and if you didn't, that's okay by me. 

Brilliantly stated. Agree to disagree was my sentiment too.

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