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Coranhann

Your opinion about Rhymer

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Hey everyone.

I was thinking about lists archetypes and stoped for a minute on the fact that I don't see Major Rhymer anymore.

What did he become? Did he left the empire looking for new opportunities ? Did he finally start that bar project he had ?

Cause, back in the days, his nerf made sense. There was little to no variation in imperial fleet and the dreaded Rhymer ball was all too common. Not so much now.

But now is also an interesting time to bring Rhymer back. Most Imperial squadron fleet are either Sloane aces or semi sacrificial Ruthless Strategist/Bomber combo. If FFG were to errata him back to full power, he wouldn't overly benefit Sloane (she has no use for Firespray and little use for defenders) and so he would open options for different kind of lists.

Does that sound like a bad idea ?

Edited by Coranhann

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I'm not so good I can think of list on a white board. I need to test and fiddle.

I think Rhymer makes firespray better.

I think that taking Rhymer makes you more interested in having a real bomber oriented fleet, so instead of using as Ruthless Strat fodder, you might want to add a fighter wing to help your bomber, bringing back the concept of fully fledge squadron fleets, without being a Sloane list. Pretty sure Thrawn could use that power up.

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47 minutes ago, Coranhann said:

Cause, back in the days, his nerf made sense. There was little to no variation in imperial fleet and the dreaded Rhymer ball was all too common. Not so much now.

And what has changed since the nerf? Nothing ;). At least nothing that would justify an "un-nerf".
He was used way to often and was way to good, so he was nerfed (at the right time i have mention, Rhymer and Sloane would have been WAY overpowered).

Unnerfing him would result in Rhymer Balls all over again. And it would skyrocket Sloane Ace lists to a point i really do not want to see.
I have no idea why you associate Rhymer with Firesprays or bombers. He is working for all squadrons. And a combination Rhymer, Sloane, Stele, Jendon would be really a pain for most lists.
Not to mention that so many ships cannot attack these squadrons with the anti-squadron dice. Maybe this was as well a reason for the nerf. Because squadrons could attack some ships without any danger.

And i still see him on some lists. Because he is basically giving snipe against ships to squadrons. This is still really nice. But short-medium range was just a bit to much.

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2 minutes ago, Tokra said:

I have no idea why you associate Rhymer with Firesprays or bombers. He is working for all squadrons.

Huh, I thought he was only effecting the Bomber keyword. Making Rhymer's ability tied to Bombers could prevent the insanity of long range Sloane attacks if he was powered up again. I think that's what would have to happen if he got his old ability back.

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1 minute ago, Tokra said:

 Unnerfing him would result in Rhymer Balls all over again. And it would skyrocket Sloane Ace lists to a point i really do not want to see.
 I have no idea why you associate Rhymer with Firesprays or bombers. He is working for all squadrons. And a combination Rhymer, Sloane, Stele, Jendon would be really a pain for most lists.

Hum, you're right. I didn't thought of using Rhymer to just boost Marek & Jendon with extra range.

Which would be too much. Sad. Cause I disagree, we don't see bomber and especially Rhymer, nowadays. The nerf was good and necessary. But if it nerfed the squadron to ****, then it might have been too much.

Anyway, you are right, un nerfing him might be a bad idea. Not because Sloane would boost him, but he would boost Imperail/Sloane strongest combo.

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8 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Huh, I thought he was only effecting the Bomber keyword. Making Rhymer's ability tied to Bombers could prevent the insanity of long range Sloane attacks if he was powered up again. I think that's what would have to happen if he got his old ability back.

I'm certain that was one of the options they considered initially.

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28 minutes ago, rasproteus said:

I'm certain that was one of the options they considered initially.

I agree, I think they nerfed it this way because making it at the same range but affecting only bombers still wouldn't stop the combination of Marek and Jendon from attacking from medium range which is very powerful with Sloane. Also, if you wanted to abuse that Rhymer's abbility with Sloane at medium range you could use Defenders

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I would have preferred the nerf to be giving squads activated with Rhymer the ability to shoot at ships at close-medium. Would give carriers (anything with high squad #) a boost too.

He's just not worth it now. Waste of 16 points.

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He still shows up in lists, just nowhere near the frequency pre nerf.  He services a purpose albight a much more niche purpose.  I don’t think it was solely the nerf all by itself that resulted in a big decline.  I think the wave of Jendon and Maarek presented a huge alternative that’s much easier to use.  

 

Shameless plug...

 

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Great article/post. I might have been caught dreaming of the good old days and whishfully looked for a way to discuss Rhymer back into popularity.

I had a few come back points, but they all consist in saying "Rebels have more aces combo and/or impactful aces", which is in no way a good argument to improve Rhymer. Or a good argument at all, period.

Edited by Coranhann

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Unfortunately the glory days of Rhymer are gone.  He now teaches at the Empire Top Gun school waxing nostalgic about past missions with the parents of the new up-and-comers.  

I can see bringing his power back if it worked exclusively on TIE Bombers.  That would give the Empire an alternative bombing ball to work with and avoid Sloane problems.

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Don't tell anyone this, but.... Rhymer is actually still the bomb. Even extending the range only to close range still drastically increases the threat range of squads. AFFM + Squall + Rhymer can sink most small bases on turn one. Not only that, but the threat range they have is absurd. Nearly the entire setup area is threatened with that combo. If you extend his range again, you make it so this is possible with far fewer resources. His pre-nerf ability is far too strong with Morna, Maarek, and Jendon in the game.

Seriously though. Set up a match with Morna, Maarek, Jendon, Rhymer, an intel-source, and however you want to spend the last few squad points. Look at how far these can move across the board and how much damage they can put out. Raddus on a CR-90 or HH? He better be dropping his ship turn 1, or they won't be dropping at all.

I generally play Rebels, but when I play Imps, Rhymer is generally my 4-5th in line for considering inclusion (the others being Jendon, Morna, Maarek, Dengar/Intel).

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2 minutes ago, DUR said:

I would have liked Rhymer's old ability, but at 24 pts for the squadron.  At least it makes you think about it.

Even at 24 points, in a world that has Sloane and Merek and Jendon, I would not want him back with his original ability.  He was just everywhere and very hard to mitigate.  Nowso maybe even more.  I really think he needs to be a mechanic to get more TIE bombers into lists at this point.

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The way I see it - his nerf made sense before, his nerf makes sense now, his ability and loadout is still pretty useful (don't forget that rhymer is a hard-counter to QLT). The only possible update worth considering is a cost drop.

Essentially his old ability did shut down a lot of flak options (and does shut down even more of these options as there are many ships with only black flak dice) and therefore (IMHO) isn't worth bringing at any price as it hard counters one of the game core mechanics/balance considerations.

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7 minutes ago, PT106 said:

The way I see it - his nerf made sense before, his nerf makes sense now, his ability and loadout is still pretty useful (don't forget that rhymer is a hard-counter to QLT). The only possible update worth considering is a cost drop.

He is a hard counter to QLT, but I'm not sure that many people build lists worrying about QLT and how to get around it.  I could be wrong.  And the nerf was necessary for sure.  It's just too bad he got nerfed into obscurity.

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21 minutes ago, durandal343 said:

He is a hard counter to QLT, but I'm not sure that many people build lists worrying about QLT and how to get around it.

Depending on a meta I think Imperial aces should worry about Kallus/QLT combo.

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