I just had a revelation about the new film hate...

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

1 hour ago, ghatt said:

Maybe, probably. Most likely. 

But in a movie with silly gag after silly gag, they missed the most obvious with his hand going clunk against the rocks. Would’ve fit right in with the rest of that ‘masterpiece.’

It was very nice of Rian Johnson to leave one joke for a future spaceballs or family guy special though.

Well, given that his robe obscured his hands, and how far he was from the camera, we wouldn’t have seen the prosthetic fall anyway. ?

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

Why would his hand not disappear with him? It's not like the influence of the Force is limited to squishy biomatter. That's such a prosaic and mechanistic view of the Force, when the movies and the wider universe have shown it to be anything but that.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Stan Fresh

[StriderZessei 948]

4 hours ago, ghatt said:

Honestly, there's no reason that Luke has to be dead. Ezra used the force to time travel and save Ahsoka from Vader. He could have vanished into that force conduit that Ezra was running around in for all we know. I think it'd be a bit silly, but I wouldn't put anything past JJ after seeing what he did with Star Trek. His hand certainly didn't go clunk after he went poof, so he took that with him wherever he went, lol. Rian Johnson and JJ both seem fond of time travel anyway.

 

Dude, spoilers. 

[StriderZessei 948]

11 hours ago, ghatt said:

I didn't leave it out, she was mistaken. He wasn't turning towards the light.

The whole trilogy has been about whether Kylo will turn to or from the dark side. Killing Snoke was actually a great way to fake us out. Is he rebelling, or fulfilling Sith tradition? 

[kaosoe 7,573]

1 hour ago, StriderZessei said:

Is he rebelling, or fulfilling Sith tradition? 

And considering his mantra of letting the old ways die, signs point to the former.

[Nivrap 92]

5 hours ago, Aluminium Falcon said:

That a movie that teaches reverence for the past includes moving on from it and vilifies gripping the past until it twists to fit your desires is as divisive as it is should not be a surprise.

That said, the fact that it is a surprise possibly speaks to the value of the lesson.

"Yeah we all love the OT, everyone loves the OT, but please buy the new toys cuz they're just sitting their gathering dust while the OT merch flies off the shelves."

[AnomalousAuthor 506]

4 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

Dude, spoilers. 

My sincere apologies man. It’s not exactly new, but I apologize if you haven’t seen it yet.

[penpenpen 1,748]

It's funny how all these people are coming out of the woodwork just now to proclaim that that Star Wars was ruined. I mean, if it's fair to call the new movies divisive, the prequels was near universally loathed in comparison. I think the Prequel Trilogy is pretty damned brilliant in many ways (re-watched it this week) and even I think TPM is a hot mess from start to finish.

People's memories are damned short. 

And if Star Wars was ruined only just now, by Rian Johnson, a lot of people owe George Lucas, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christiansen and Ahmed Best a ton of apologies.

...

Jake Lloyd in particular.

Edited October 28, 2018 by penpenpen

[StriderZessei 948]

48 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

It's funny how all these people are coming out of the woodwork just now to proclaim that that Star Wars was ruined just now. I mean, if it's fair to call the new movies divisive, the prequels was near universally loathed in comparison. I think the Prequel Trilogy is pretty damned brilliant in many ways (re-watched it this week) and even I think TPM is a hot mess from start to finish.

People's memories are damned short. 

And if Star Wars was ruined only just now, by Rian Johnson, a lot of people owe George Lucas, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christiansen and Ahmed Best a ton of apologies.

...

Jake Lloyd in particular.

Midichlorians.

Never forget. 

[Eoen 825]

15 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

Midichlorians.

Never forget. 

Poor Jake Lloyd, had his high school days ruined because he was a child actor in TPM.

Never understood why Midichlorians where so awful, of course the Jedi order would have more scientific theories about the force, than it being just a Zen thing.

The whole force concept is pulled from nineteenth century occultism anyways.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Eoen

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

5 minutes ago, Eoen said:

Poor Jake Lloyd, had his high school days ruined because he was a child actor in TPM.

Never understood why Midichlorians where so awful, of course the Jedi order would have more scientific theories about the force, than it being just a Zen thing.

The whole force concept is pulled from nineteenth century occultism anyways.

Not entirely true. According to Star Wars: The Magic of Myth, The Force was primarily based upon a combination of Zoroastrianism and Zen Buddhism. 

[Eoen 825]

13 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Not entirely true. According to Star Wars: The Magic of Myth, The Force was primarily based upon a combination of Zoroastrianism and Zen Buddhism. 

Go read Blavatsky then, she even calls it the "the mysterious force", but she also noted for liberally dipping into eastern philosophy and metaphysics then mixing it with western ether physics and alchemy.

Yoda is a teaching spirit in a certain western esoteric tradition.

Most of the early science fiction authors, like Burroughs, Vern, etc the people Lucas says where his inspiration belong to some speculative lodge, or a group like the Golden Dawn, OTO, Theosophy.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Eoen

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

12 minutes ago, Eoen said:

Go read Blavatsky then, she even calls it the "the mysterious force", but she also noted for liberally dipping into eastern philosophy and metaphysics then mixing it with western ether physics and alchemy.

Yoda is a teaching spirit in a certain western esoteric tradition.

 

Just because she used a similar term does not equate to GL borrowing his concepts from her. However, the writer of Star Wars: The Magic of Myth, Mary Henderson, was the curator of the Star Wars Exhibit at the Smithsonian Institute. I also recommend you read Star Wars and Philosophy,  by  Kevin S. Decker, Jason T. Eberl. That book also points to other contributing philosophies used to create the religion of the Jedi, including Stoicism. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Tramp Graphics

[Eoen 825]

13 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Just because she used a similar term does not equate to GL borrowing his concepts from her. However, the writer of Star Wars: The Magic of Myth, Mary Henderson, was the curator of the Star Wars Exhibit at the Smithsonian Institute. I also recommend you read Star Wars and Philosophy,  by  Kevin S. Decker, Jason T. Eberl. 

I'm not disagreeing with you those people wrote those books, western esotericism has a long tradition of covering its tracks, in order to avoid public scrutiny.  But the fact remains those organizations have enormously impacted our society, especially considering the enormous wealth of their membership.

The Sithsonian is a particular gatekeeper, hiding vast sums of knowledge away from the public.  I watched a Smithsonian documentary on President Harding, a African-American family called the hosts and told them how they where descendants of President Harding (this was not live mind you), the hosts instantly poo pooed their statement.  President Harding was my Great Grandmothers first cousin, my family has long known the Harding had mixed children, through his various affairs.

I've read Joseph Cambell's books on the hero cycle, he is a direct influence on the creation of Star Wars.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Eoen

[themensch 3,092]

32 minutes ago, Eoen said:

Never understood why Midichlorians where so awful, of course the Jedi order would have more scientific theories about the force, than it being just a Zen thing.

Potato, potato.  I'm with you, I don't understand everyone's dislike of a scientific approach to physical manifestations of what is regarded as a spiritual force.  Someone moved their cheese, it seems like. 

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

26 minutes ago, Eoen said:

I'm not disagreeing with you those people wrote those books, western esotericism has a long tradition of covering its tracks, in order to avoid public scrutiny.  But the fact remains those organizations have enormously impacted our society, especially considering the enormous wealth of their membership.

The Sithsonian is a particular gatekeeper, hiding vast sums of knowledge away from the public.  I watched a Smithsonian documentary on President Harding, a African-American family called the hosts and told them how they where descendants of President Harding (this was not live mind you), the hosts instantly poo pooed their statement.  President Harding was my Great Grandmothers first cousin, my family has long known the Harding had mixed children, through his various affairs.

I've read Joseph Cambell's books on the hero cycle, he is a direct influence on the creation of Star Wars.

Yes, he is. In fact, that is one of the things Ms Henderson discusses in her book. 

[Eoen 825]

40 minutes ago, themensch said:

Potato, potato.  I'm with you, I don't understand everyone's dislike of a scientific approach to physical manifestations of what is regarded as a spiritual force.  Someone moved their cheese, it seems like. 

It seems obvious if more than a thousand generations of Jedi, served the Republic, the at least some of them would come up with differing theories, and ways to measure a repeatable phenomena.  No one seemed to care that Egon could use scientific instruments to detect ghosts in Ghost Busters.

[Eoen 825]

54 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Just because she used a similar term does not equate to GL borrowing his concepts from her. However, the writer of Star Wars: The Magic of Myth, Mary Henderson, was the curator of the Star Wars Exhibit at the Smithsonian Institute. I also recommend you read Star Wars and Philosophy,  by  Kevin S. Decker, Jason T. Eberl. That book also points to other contributing philosophies used to create the religion of the Jedi, including Stoicism. 

I'm not surprised Stoicism is an influence, many prequel Jedi seem stoic.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

1 hour ago, themensch said:

Potato, potato.  I'm with you, I don't understand everyone's dislike of a scientific approach to physical manifestations of what is regarded as a spiritual force.  Someone moved their cheese, it seems like. 

I think the biggest issue was with people who misunderstood the rather simplified explanation that Qui-Gon gave when Anakin asked.  Being a child, there's no way that Anakin would have understood the full definition of what the midichlorians were, so being the understanding parental figure that he was, Qui-Gon gave the boy an answer that he could at least wrap his head around, which was that midichlorians were how living beings were able to connect with the Force.

Never once did Qui-Gon say that midichlorians were the source of the Force, which is what a lot of the haters presume, and the film itself simply treats them as a measuring stick.  As you said, it's a quick, scientific-sounding way to say "this child has a great destiny in store."

[themensch 3,092]

2 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Qui-Gon gave the boy an answer that he could at least wrap his head around

That's it right there, isn't it?  I don't talk about routing protocols or socket timeouts when I explain how the internet works to my nephew, either.  Psh, or almost anyone else for that matter. ?

I mean, I get it, some folks don't want someone else's chocolate in their peanut butter, and others don't want someone else's peanut butter on their chocolate, but wishing a thing is/isn't true doesn't make it so.  That said, I'm sorry that this or any movie ruined anyone's childhood (?) but nobody moreso than poor Jake Lloyd. 

[AnomalousAuthor 506]

Never thought midichlorians diminished the spiritual aspect of the force either. 

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

1 hour ago, themensch said:

...but nobody more so than poor Jake Lloyd. 

Fully agree.

While I didn't care for his performance in the film, he certainly didn't deserve the crap he got for it, any more than Ahmed Best, Daisy Ridley or Kelly Marie Tran deserved how they've been treated because of the roles they played in these films.

[Eoen 825]

@Donovan Morningfire Yeah you would think being in a Star Wars movie would make you one of the coolest kids in school.

[themensch 3,092]

1 hour ago, Eoen said:

@Donovan Morningfire Yeah you would think being in a Star Wars movie would make you one of the coolest kids in school.

Right?  Which one of us didn't grow up wanting to be in Star Wars?  I was barely in school when a New Hope came out and to this day I think about being in Star Wars. Man, the problems I could solve with a lightsaber.  

[StriderZessei 948]

1 hour ago, themensch said:

Right?  Which one of us didn't grow up wanting to be in Star Wars?  I was barely in school when a New Hope came out and to this day I think about being in Star Wars. Man, the problems I could solve with a lightsaber.  

I still wish, at 30 years old, that I could be in one of the films. Just to spend a day on set, rubbing elbows with the cast, even if just as an extra. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by StriderZessei