Jump to content
KungFuFerret

I just had a revelation about the new film hate...

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

This is nonsense. Abrams didn't write a movie. As far as we know he wrote a draft.

Yes actually he wrote all three movies and Rian scrapped it.  This is a known fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/9/2018 at 7:43 PM, 2P51 said:

Because JJ didn't want to do the whole thing originally.  They also fired dude from 9, and then I'm sure plead with JJ to finish it up.

 

JJ just planned to direct the first movie but spent time laying out the story for all three. Yes he did not want to direct all three because of other projects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Metalghost said:

Too bad we wont ever find out about snoke since Rian killed him off like a wuss in the second movie.  I would have rather seen the movie JJ Abrams wrote instead of what Rian re-wrote.

In terms of story progression and focus, Snoke wouldn’t have served much purpose in 9. He existed as “the Big Bad’s boss.” The roles of “hero” and “villain” in this trilogy are filled by Rey and Kylo. So, in the big climax of 9, the hero defeats the villain...but doesn’t vanquish the actual enemy, because the villain’s boss is still around. His removal, coupled with Luke’s death, removes the mentors from the board, setting the hero and villain in place for the climax.

Meanwhile, in the original, Obi-Wan was killed because the character had fulfilled his purpose to the story. So, if we’re going to take TLJ to task for doing that, then why aren’t we taking the original to task?

Finally, in a franchise well known for giving us extensive backgrounds and spotlights for characters who are only mentioned and never appear on screen, the suggestion that we’ll never learn Snoke’s story is quaint. (I could swear I remember reading months ago that a book covering some of it was already announced.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:

Finally, in a franchise well known for giving us extensive backgrounds and spotlights for characters who are only mentioned and never appear on screen, the suggestion that we’ll never learn Snoke’s story is quaint. (I could swear I remember reading months ago that a book covering some of it was already announced.) 

Just another inane complaint completely devoid of any relationship to reality.

Every single patron of the Mos Eisley Cantina has at least one story about them.

But no, we'll never find out about Snoke!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/14/2018 at 9:38 PM, ghatt said:

Change for the sake of change doesn't usually lead to good results. Tropes are tropes for a reason; they work, pure and simple. Not saying you can't do things outside of expectations, but if you do, you better make **** sure they work. This is especially tricky when dealing with well established universes, stories, and characters; such as with Star Wars. Stubbornly raging against tropes and expectations, like Rian Johnson did, isn't a recipe for universal success.

What perplexes me more than anything about this movie is how some people just can't get over the fact that others didn't like it. I've seen it twice and it was just as bad on netflix as it was in the theatre. There's not some grand conspiracy or other motivations behind most peoples dislike of the film, they just didn't like it. By comparison, I enjoyed Solo much more than TLJ, even with the uneven performance of its leading man. 

One thing TLJ did for me was lessen my interest for all things Star Wars. I'm still a huge Star Wars fan, but after TLJ i cant say im excited about anything coming down the Lucasfilm pipeline. Probably will just wait until the next movie is for rent on itunes. Certainly not going to avoid spoilers like i did for TLJ.

This is the mood TLJ put me in after I saw it, did not watch solo in the movie theater and will not watch the 3rd movie as well.  I'll wait till its free.  I've lost interest in Disney's Star Wars, to me it does not feel like the Star Wars from the first 6 movies made by George Lucas.  It really feels like something else.  The force awakens did get my attention to an extent and it had me thinking Disney might be able to make a decent Star Wars trilogy but after TLJ it was obvious they were catering to a specific group of people I did not belong in.  I'll stick to the first 6 movies and play Star Wars FFG in those settings.  

As far as I'm concerned this new Star Wars is its own universe and not interesting.  Unless my tabletop group all decide to go there I wont be, but we as a group have such good synergy together I'll go the direction they will just out of loyalty.  I don't see us ever playing in this new star wars universe, if anything we will go to the clone wars era and play that.

Disney's Star Wars is for some people obviously even in the forms people have said they like it, while an equal if not more have said they don't.  I respect both sides. Each his own.

I really did like rogue one, I wish they would have made all the other new movies with that kind of care.

Edited by Metalghost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Do you know the difference between a draft and a full screenplay?

Your right I meant draft. Though I have heard rumors that he actually had the full screenplay written as well.  Don't know if thats true but I do know he had a draft of all three done before he moved on after the force awakens.

Edited by Metalghost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:

Tramp, hope you don’t mind, but a minor correction:

It was released after Avengers, which did even better than projected, which did, indeed, impact Solo’s ticket sales.

 

Oh, Justice League suffered from far more problems than just that one.

Yes and no. However, the massive reshoots and cost overruns of that movie were huge, we're talking $300,000,000. Justice league took in a Worldwide total of $657,924,295. While the movie made less than expected, it still made an impressive sum of money; more than enough to have been considered a success had the film not gone massively far over budget. As a result, in order for Justice League just to "break even", it needed to take in as much as $750,000,000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes and no. However, the massive reshoots and cost overruns of that movie were huge, we're talking $300,000,000. Justice league took in a Worldwide total of $657,924,295. While the movie made less than expected, it still made an impressive sum of money; more than enough to have been considered a success had the film not gone massively far over budget. As a result, in order for Justice League just to "break even", it needed to take in as much as $750,000,000

And, again, that was far from its only problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Nytwyng said:

And, again, that was far from its only problem.

And, as I said, yes and no. Some of those "problems" are purely subjective. The main problem was budget. Had the budget not ballooned as much as it did, the movie would have been a financial success. That was its primary problem. That is the main reason why it flopped. It simply cost too much to make. Any other "problem" is secondary at best, and mostly subjective. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Metalghost said:

This is the mood TLJ put me in after I saw it, did not watch solo in the movie theater and will not watch the 3rd movie as well.  I'll wait till its free.  I've lost interest in Disney's Star Wars, to me it does not feel like the Star Wars from the first 6 movies made by George Lucas.  It really feels like something else. 

Ironically, people said much the same in 1999, 2002, and 2005 regarding the prequels.

Then they said it again in 2008 about Clone Wars.

Why, people even left theaters in 1980 decrying the outright betrayal of Star Wars that was The Empire Strikes Back.

It’s happened every time a new iteration of the franchise has come about. Then, a few revolutions down the line, it’s embraced.

Do you have to like it? No. Sorry you don’t. Hopefully a future release will be more to your liking.

16 minutes ago, Metalghost said:

Your right I meant draft. Though I have heard rumors that he actually had the full screenplay written as well.  Don't know if thats true but I do know he had a draft of all three done before he moved on after the force awakens.

You understand how long it takes to write a full screenplay, yes?

The shooting script for TLJ was complete before TFA was in theaters. (Established by statements made by LFL and Disney personnel). The odds of anyone writing three full scripts at once are at least 3720:1 (barring, of course, outliers like Lord of the Rings, where production on all three is done by the same crew at the same time). Even Lucas, knowing for a fact that Episodes 1-3 were going to be made, didn’t write them all at once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

And, as I said, yes and no. Some of those "problems" are purely subjective. The main problem was budget. Had the budget not ballooned as much as it did, the movie would have been a financial success. That was its primary problem. That is the main reason why it flopped. It simply cost too much to make. Any other "problem" is secondary at best, and mostly subjective. 

With the rat’s nest of problems, pinning down a “primary” or “main” problem is practically impossible. The budget increases would have been unnecessary without many of the other problems. (And the budget increases didn’t fix them.)

Chicken?

Or egg?

Edited by Nytwyng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

With the rat’s nest of problems, pinning down a “primary” or “main” problem is practically impossible. The budget increases would have been unnecessary without many of the other problems. (And the budget increases didn’t fix them.)

Chicken?

Or egg?

I disagree. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I disagree. 

Feel free.

Frankly, I’m not quite sure why we’re arguing the point. I merely said there was far more than the one problem with JL, to which you’ve agreed.

Edited by Nytwyng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:

Ironically, people said much the same in 1999, 2002, and 2005 regarding the prequels.

Then they said it again in 2008 about Clone Wars.

Why, people even left theaters in 1980 decrying the outright betrayal of Star Wars that was The Empire Strikes Back.

It’s happened every time a new iteration of the franchise has come about. Then, a few revolutions down the line, it’s embraced.

Do you have to like it? No. Sorry you don’t. Hopefully a future release will be more to your liking.

You understand how long it takes to write a full screenplay, yes?

The shooting script for TLJ was complete before TFA was in theaters. (Established by statements made by LFL and Disney personnel). The odds of anyone writing three full scripts at once are at least 3720:1 (barring, of course, outliers like Lord of the Rings, where production on all three is done by the same crew at the same time). Even Lucas, knowing for a fact that Episodes 1-3 were going to be made, didn’t write them all at once.

Not me I was excited when The Phantom Menace, The Clone Wars, and Revenge of the Sith when they came out.  I was there at midnight for the first showing for all 3 and waiting a few hours to get in with friends and did not regret it.  Loved the movies and saw all three at least 3 times each in the theaters when they came out. Also my friends and family felt the exact same way as I did on those 3 movies. They all agree all 3 were great minus Jar Jar binks.  Don't feel the same about these new movies.  I would pay to watch The Force awakens in the movie theater as I did, but would not pay twice, and feel even less for The Last Jedi not even worth paying period to see. Though my brother does feel a little more positive than I do on The force awakens, and the Last Jedi.

Only saw Return of the Jedi in theaters so cant comment on the first 3 movies that came out.  I was too young.

Also Rian scrapped that script you are talking about for TLJ and made his own so he could make his mark.  

Some people do like the new movies some don't.

Edited by Metalghost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Metalghost said:

Not me I was excited when The Phantom Menace, The Clone Wars, and Revenge of the Sith when they came out.  I was there at midnight for the first showing for all 3 and waiting a few hours to get in with friends and did not regret it.  Loved the movies and saw all three at least 3 times each in the theaters when they came out. Also my friends and family felt the exact same way as I did on those 3 movies. They all agree all 3 were great minus Jar Jar binks.  Don't feel the same about these new movies.  I would pay to watch The Force awakens in the movie theater as I did, but would not pay twice, and feel even less for The Last Jedi not even worth paying period to see. Though my brother does feel a little more positive than I do on The force awakens, and the Last Jedi.

I don't recall saying either a positive or negative response was universal (or even near-universal). But, reactions similar to yours have existed for each new entry in the franchise's existence. But, it's still here, and still going strong. That's all I'm saying...nothing more, nothing less.

1 hour ago, Metalghost said:

Also Rian scrapped that script you are talking about for TLJ and made his own so he could make his mark. 

Citation for a completed pre-Johnson script? Johnson was confirmed for (what would become) TLJ in August, 2014 (after rumors as early as June of that year), and began working on the script, which was completed prior to TFA hitting theaters in December 2015. As with Abrams before him, he was also to contribute a treatment for 9.

As far as "making his own (script) so he could make his mark," we all understand that it was signed off on by LFL, right? It's not like he snuck $317 million out of the R2-D2 cookie jar at LFL, wrote, filmed, edited, and distributed a movie worldwide without their knowledge and input.

1 hour ago, Metalghost said:

Some people do like the new movies some don't.

Welcome to the point. Grab a seat. Kick off your shoes and stay a while.

Edited by Nytwyng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Metalghost said:

The first 6 Star Wars movies inspired passion as well, and good art too.  Not trying to take away from the latest movies.  The force awakens i enjoyed it was great art and great directing,  The Last Jedi though didnt inspire anything in me but boredom.  The movie was mediocre at best and non inspiring unless your counting boredom. 

That is revising the history of the prequels which were loathed on release and still cause scorn among cinephiles and Star Wars fans alike. 

Do you not believe that the new films will not inspire anyone or become beloved? They already seem to be finding a place in the hearts of many new fans. 

 

Star Wars needs to evolve. The originals have entered the public zeitgeist and been emulated so often that to younger generations it is hard to see what was special about them. A new perspective and a new voice will keep it fresh and changing, otherwise you'll end up fading away as all you do is pander to old fans who will one way or another leave. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, LithiumBlossom said:

A new perspective and a new voice will keep it fresh and changing, otherwise you'll end up fading away as all you do is pander to old fans who will one way or another leave. 

Comics industry and Star Trek, I'm lookin' at you.

c4466ad92eb34cc9495849ae3d1fd5c4ad48217b

Edited by Nytwyng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Metalghost said:

Disney's Star Wars is for some people obviously even in the forms people have said they like it, while an equal if not more have said they don't.

That's because more people will complain about something they didn't like than the people who did enjoy it. That's a scientifically proven fact. 

 

Also, maybe read this article to understand who the movie is really for (spoiler: open-minded people, not SJWs, not moronic bigots; people ready for their favorite series to grow and evolve.) https://observer.com/2018/07/film-crit-hulk-the-beautiful-ugly-and-possessive-hearts-of-star-wars/

Edited by StriderZessei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

That's because more people will complain about something they didn't like than the people who did enjoy it. That's a scientifically proven fact. 

Very true. I've worked in some form of customer service my entire adult life. One of the things that holds pretty true is the maxim that an unhappy customer will tell approximately 10 people about their experience, and a happy customer will tell about 2. Same principal applies here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Metalghost said:

Your right I meant draft. Though I have heard rumors that he actually had the full screenplay written as well.  Don't know if thats true but I do know he had a draft of all three done before he moved on after the force awakens. 

You're just making stuff up to justify your nonsense complaints.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my own experience, talking to people in real life, is that of the twelve or so people I’ve spoken to three liked the movie, the rest didn’t. To my knowledge none of us have posted reviews either. Their ages range from 18-59, and include people of both genders, homo and heterosexuals, conservatives and liberals. And while I can’t vouch for the fandom of my coworkers, my family and friends are all pretty big Star Wars fans.

The three who liked it absolutely loved it and can’t seem to understand why I don’t, and are some of my closest friends. The others are family and coworkers, some of which saw episode IV in theatres numerous times. 

Only two things I can really say with any real certainty is that TLJ was very divisive, and that I dislike it very much. Not trying to ignite any arguments, just adding my observations. 

Edit: No idea why some of my post is in a larger font. Posting on my phone.

Edited by ghatt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...