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Ronu

Astromechs - what are they good for?

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So Astromechs have always been in an unusual spot in X-wing. Either over powered for what they did R2-D2 and later FAA in 1.0 for example. Or basically not worth whatever points you spent on them.

Right now in 2.0 it seems the best Mech option is none at all?!?  

R2’s. 6 points for two shields. Or R2-D2 for 8 and a 3rd shield. Aloss giving up shots which most list that would use them really, would prefer not to give up if at all possible. 

R3’s: lots of Target Locks for only 3 points. E-wing’s love them, and Y-wings can make use of them fairly well... perhaps the best in the bunch. In a world with lots of Juke flying about are you really wanting Locks? Over Focus actions/tokens?

R4’s: Formerly the generic R2’s. A nice buy at 2 points to open up a dial. The issue is most ships that can use them don’t necessarily want/need them. X-wings get a minimal boost to their 2 turns. E-wings get the most Benefit from this guy yet E-wings really want the Target Locks for a point more.

R5’s: An action torepair a Damage that’s face up or a charge to remove one dance down. 5 points can certainly save you some headaches. Question is it enough? R5-D8 at 7 points for an extra charge to spend.

It also feels as if you want to run multiples of ships that use them aside from the sheathapede you actually have to take one less ship and try to load up the others to fit a mech on them the way you might want to. So where do they fit and what could help them be better? Variable to the type of ship in point cost similar to other upgrades?

 

Edited by Ronu

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18 hours ago, Ronu said:

R2’s. 6 points for two shields. Or R2-D2 for 8 and a 3rd shield. Aloss giving up shots which most list that would use them really, would prefer not to give up if at all possible. 

Dicta Boelcke #7: “When over the enemy's lines never forget your own line of retreat.”

a pilot who learns the right time to disengage and regenerate will live longer and take more quality shots than one who constantly k-turns for snap shots. 

Edited by skotothalamos
fixed text size.

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After a few games with the E-Wing and the R3, I've concluded that I prefer the R4. Grabbing two locks early is nice and all, but correct play and a well thought out choice of target means it isn't that essential. However, if you ever want to sloop, or do a linked action, that blue 1-turn is invaluable.

For the Y, I'd probably prefer an R3 in most cases, however the R4 makes a case for itself if you have access to coordinate. Running AP-5 alongside Dutch means I can use AP-5 to reload, clear stress with a blue 2-turn, target lock, grab one for AP-5, and fire that torpedo.

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17 minutes ago, Okapi said:

After a few games with the E-Wing and the R3, I've concluded that I prefer the R4. Grabbing two locks early is nice and all, but correct play and a well thought out choice of target means it isn't that essential. However, if you ever want to sloop, or do a linked action, that blue 1-turn is invaluable.

Point of order: R4 Astros will turn the E-wing's 1-hards white, not blue, as it only reduces the difficulty of the maneuvers rather than just giving you a blanket "treat them as blue".

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43 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

Point of order: R4 Astros will turn the E-wing's 1-hards white, not blue, as it only reduces the difficulty of the maneuvers rather than just giving you a blanket "treat them as blue".

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. Guess I'm still thinking in 1.0-terms. :P

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1 hour ago, Okapi said:

Dutch means I can use AP-5 to reload, clear stress with a blue 2-turn, target lock, grab one for AP-5, and fire that torpedo. 

If you reload, aren't you supposed to get a disabled weapon token, forbidding you from performing an attack this round? I may have missed something.

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6 hours ago, Ronu said:

So Astromechs have always been in an unusual spot in X-wing. Either over powered for what they did R2-D2 and later FAA in 1.0 for example. Or basically not worth whatever points you spent on them.

Right now in 2.0 it seems the best Mech option is none at all?!?  

R2’s. 6 points for two shields. Or R2-D2 for 8 and a 3rd shield. Aloss giving up shots which most list that would use them really, would prefer not to give up if at all possible. 

R3’s: lots of Target Locks for only 3 points. E-wing’s love them, and Y-wings can make use of them fairly well... perhaps the best in the bunch. In a world with lots of Juke flying about are you really wanting Locks? Over Focus actions/tokens?

R4’s: Formerly the generic R2’s. A nice buy at 2 points to open up a dial. The issue is most ships that can use them don’t necessarily want/need them. X-wings get a minimal boost to their 2 turns. E-wings get the most Benefit from this guy yet E-wings really want the Target Locks for a point more.

R5’s: An action torepair a Damage that’s face up or a charge to remove one dance down. 5 points can certainly save you some headaches. Question is it enough? R5-D8 at 7 points for an extra charge to spend.

I used to think that they should go on every ship, but I've often seen these guys blow up before they even get a chance to regen a shield or repair a hull.  I do think you need to think about it before you use it, but I do think it's worth it.  

R2's are cheap when you compare with Shield Upgrade.  Yes, you have to not shoot for a turn, but there are always turns that you don't have a shot.  It's not a bad thing to slip away and come around again.  You can always close your S Foils and Boost to get into better position or out of danger.  

R3's -  You seem to ignore Y-wings here.  Dutch, in particular loves this guy.  Also, I haven't seen anyone use Juke in my area yet, so it might be a local thing to you.

R4's - Also good on Y-wings.  

R5's - This is really good for someone who can get away.  You can keep repairing as many crits as you have.  You can repair hull.  Some ships, like Y-wings, might like this better, as they have more hull.  There are things like Coordinate and such that can help out.  Or....if you are able to ionize your opponent it could buy you a round to get out of arcs and do the repair.  

 

Overall I think it's not an easy choice.  You have to think about the option as it might be better to get another ship in your list.  Still worth it at times, though. 

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I prefer the generic R2's, the two charges seem like just the right amount for my usual games. I want to be able to boost to run/dodge during the regen turn most of the time, and crits are nasty, so I can handle the weapons disabled token on the R2. Much better than eating an action in this environment if you ask me. 

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Big problem for me regarding the regen droids is this:

Blue Squadron Escort (41)
R2 Astromech (6)
Shield Upgrade (6)

Knave Squadron Escort (61)
R2 Astromech (6)
Shield Upgrade (8)

Norra Wexley (55)
R2 Astromech (6)
Shield Upgrade (4)

 

Unless you use two charges to regen, its better to just take a shield upgrade and not give up your shots. Hull upgrade is even cheaper.

Edited by wurms

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2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Why wouldn't you use the 2 charges?

Cause this could happen to you before you ever get the chance:

giphy.gif

Therefore, a shield upgrade for the same cost is a better value. If you dont find yourself able to use two charges in most of the games you play, just take a shield upgrade.

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Last time I flew X-Wings, I encountered numerous instances where a blue 2-turn would have been very useful.  I mean, sure that's the only maneuver R4'll help with on a T-65, but then again, they're also pretty cheap.  I'd say go ahead and throw them on if you have a few extra points to work with.

Edited by JJ48

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6 hours ago, gennataos said:
Mech, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Mech, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, why'all
Mech, huh, good god
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
 

You beat me to it!!! ?

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34 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Can't wait for Tech to be the new useless upgrades. :P

 

Like when they were first introduced?  It took a long time for anyone to care about tech (Heroes of the Resistance specifically with Primed Thrusters and Pattern Analyzer) and even longer for it to be super desirable (TIE Silencer almost at the end of 1.0 with Advanced Optics).

 

As for droids, R3 is bad.  Locking 2 things usually means 1 useful lock and 1 lock you don't care about, but might use.  It's rare that this droid comes up in such a way to be super useful.  There are very valid reasons why nobody bothered with Weapon's Engineer.  It's funny that the OP mentions Y's and E's as good with this droid because I'd definitely counter that the substantially better dial both get with the R4 is worth way more than an extra lock that you may or may not bother with and will have very immediate game impact.

 

R2's and R2D2 are useful enough if your plan involves running away to regen and get another pass, but you'll have too many games where you don't get to do this to dump 6/8 pts into it.

 

R5 and R5D8 is good on a ship that routinely has an action it doesn't care about (Luke in particular) and is one of the few ways to fix structural damage, a card that is a massive problem for your finisher ace to draw.  It's not the best, but it's cheaper than R2s and most ships that can take astro's traded a shield or 2 for hull making it more likely they'll have cards on them.  On top of that, it's easier for generic or cheaper ships to lose actions than attacks especially if it means more work to kill them.

 

R4 is very much the winner, even just adding blue 2 hard turns is surprisingly meaningful, but it's value skyrockets for Y's and E's where their dial improves dramatically.

 

 

I did a pretty straightforward comparison to determine which was stronger R4 or R3.  I ran games with both and counted the number of times the better dial helped vs. the number of times I cared about the second target lock.  I ran through entire games without using the second lock, but always used R4 at least once per ship.

 

TL:DR

R5's good enough on the right ship and can save your ace, but nothing amazing

R4's always worth it, but skippable on some ships

R3's always worse than you think it'll be

R2's expensive and cost of losing an attack is suboptimal

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I'd say r3 is matchup dependant rather than just bad. Being able to lock a target you want to shoot but may not get to this turn and one you are likely to shoot at the same time is really good against arc dodgers.

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No love for Toolkit Chopper?

Chopper+ion torps is 8 points (or on the Ewing, Chopper+Colision detector for 7) for an R5 that regens shields instead of hull. Chopper + Elusiveness is Gonk with a maneuver requirement. Chopper+either of the above+stealth device is a recoverable stealth device.

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A couple of comments here have it - R4 is the definite winner.

Took it on Kavil with Dorsal turret, expert handling and Han Gunner.  That's just 54 points - or add some other upgrades as need be.

At I5 the ability to move, barrel roll (to ensure optimal position for the dorsal turret), red focus with Han and roll 3 or 4 dice (with focus) on attack is great.  Next turn dial any 1 or 2 maneuver and repeat.

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9 hours ago, gennataos said:
Mech, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Mech, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, why'all
Mech, huh, good god
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
 

Knew what I was singing as I wrote this...

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34 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

No love for Toolkit Chopper?

Chopper+ion torps is 8 points (or on the Ewing, Chopper+Colision detector for 7) for an R5 that regens shields instead of hull. Chopper + Elusiveness is Gonk with a maneuver requirement. Chopper+either of the above+stealth device is a recoverable stealth device.

I posted a thread about it elsewhere, but Chopper with Elusiveness and Afterburners sounds pretty great for E-Wing pilots.

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1 hour ago, Rodrigo Istalindir said:

R3 is great with ordnance and still pretty good without.  Lock one ship and your opponent knows who you're going after.  Lock two and keep him guessing.

 

This is what you think R3 will do.  Playing with and against him several times, this is not what he actually does.  You will get far more value out of extra blue maneuvers and pay less points.

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