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Any ways to make e-wing less ''mehhh'' in V2.0?

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9 minutes ago, rauer1 said:

Yassss Boots, Yasssss. Definitely would become a 1-2pt title though. That'd be dangerous on a Punisher.

Mostly just Redline, as her ability would allow her to avoid the downsides.  Any other Punisher it just turns the boost -> target lock in to boost -> focus.  (Which could be real good with Barrage Rockets.)

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11 minutes ago, Vedrial said:

This is false and needs to stop being repeated. Look in the rules reference under "Ability Queue". Specifically, where it says:

 

"If there are game effects that share the same timing window as a player’s ability, the game effect is resolved first.

◊ For example, if a ship performs a red barrel roll and the ship has an ability that triggers after it performs a barrel roll, the ship gains a stress token before the other ability is resolved."

 

So, you perform the linked red action, fail it. Two effects trigger: the game effect of gaining a stress token from a red action, and the player ability of Composure. Game effect goes first.

Well, I should have paid more attention reading the 2.0 rules. That's something new I didn't note, thanks !

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1 hour ago, tsuruki said:

Pst, try the generics. Named Hi-PS pilots are more point expensive than ever and Generics really do bring bang for the buck.

Indeed... The Knave with r4 has the best dial in the game, enough health to let naked greens average out, and can 5 straight-boost-lock out of combat after it spends it's lock, then 2 hard boost back into the fight.

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So I think I figured out what FFG was afraid of when the knave was priced what it was: R2 astro is basically 2 shield upgrades that dont care what your agility is.

Knave Squadron Escort (61)
R2 Astromech (6)

Knave Squadron Escort (61)
R2 Astromech (6)

Knave Squadron Escort (61)
R2 Astromech (6)

Total: 201

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

24 health behind 3 agility with a "boom and zoom" optimized dial/action bar that can give TL/focus on 9 reds on the first pass.

Edited by Rakaydos

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On 9/25/2018 at 1:45 PM, It’s One Of Ours said:

If you just go with the two Rogues, with Daredevil + Adv Sensors + R4, you can cram a Red Squadron X-Wing veteran in there with... 5 points of whatever you want to give him.  

 

E-Wings fall into a category I’ve begun to call the “Bugatti fighters”.  Like jousters, arc-dodgers, turrets, bombers, etc, the bugattis are a breed of high-performance and exceptionally expensive ships.  They’re amazing, have phenomenal stats, a good dial with plenty of tricks, and (*ahem) the sensors upgrade.  This drives the points sky-high if you take everything you want.  And running them cheap enough to have more than 2 can be a challenge due to desired upgrades, or simply the base cost of the ship.  But by their nature they tend to be difficult to pin down, a bit squirrely, and not exactly a jouster or an arc-dodger.  

 

So far I’ve decided that the E-Wing, Tie Defender, and Starviper fit this classification in my head.  They’re too expensive to joust with in a dedicated fashion.  Tough enough to not have to arc-dodge all the time.  Fast and maneuverable enough to keep your opponent on their toes.  And bloody expensive as ****, like a ******ed Bugatti.

You hit the nail on the head here - these are true space-superiority fighters.  They are the F-22s of the Star Wars universe.  The Silencer should fit into the same category when it re-releases.  I find great merit in these ships (I'm sure you've all seen my gushing over the new Defender).  The Starviper is another ship I adore, especially now that they can ALL get advanced sensors with that crazy barrel roll.  As far as I'm concerned, the E-wing is a torp carrier first, dogfighter second.  Hit twice with Protons on approach then turn and burn the rest of the game.  I think they're exceptional with this tactic, though they have a few others.

 

Still ugly though.

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For the E-wing I think we will have to wait for the rerelease to really judge them. Hopefully then they will get a Configuration that fixes some of its issues. Until then it will be terrible unless they drop the prices by 8+ points. 

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49 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

I think the E-Wing needs a sensor upgrade that plays to its strengths more. Maybe something that works well with R3 Astromech (beyond FCS).

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me like R3 is a trap.

Most ships have a "turn and burn" playstyle- keep guns on target(turns and Kturns), and slowly burn away the enemy health. FCS plays into this style, and R3 opens up FCS to be less myoptic about targets.

But the E-wing, for all it's points isnt really a spectacular turn-and-burner. (at least without R4, which you cant take with R3) It's got 1 hards, but they're red, and it's got the usual set of sloops and Kturn, but it's got worse greens than the Xwing, so hard turns and sloops make you predictable. Moreover, it's only linked action doesnt work at range 1, and it locks you into greens again.

The playstyle that the Ewing and Awing (and probably gunboat) are really meant for is Boom and Zoom- set up a powerful attack (TL/focus/extra die, pick at least 2), then get out of dodge until you can set up another such attack. If the enemy turns on your tail, keep running (range 3+) and tanking while your wingmates get on their tail.

FCS is fine for this playstyle- particularly the konga-line chase, where you expect to have the same target in arc, not so much the "run away get a new lock at a safe distance"- but R3 doesnt really help.

R4 DOES make the Ewing a spectacular turn-and-burner, that can ALSO boom and zoom. White 1 hards and Green 2 hards after a sloop really open up the dogfighing potential, and you can always break away with a 5 straight-boost-lock if things look dicy (and follow up with a 2 hard boost back into the fight if they dont follow)

What I think is the sleeper, though, is R2 and R2d2. Turn and Burn ships often have a hard time making good use of the regen droids, since you lose your "guns on target" to regain a health- you have to find turns where you are already being outflown and try and make it not as bad. Boom and Zoom, on the other hand, already plans for turns with guns off target. The Ewing holds the classic example in 1.0- post doubletap Corran Horn, running off to heal up. 5 straight boost/lock/regen is a fine disengagement, although you cant 2 hard back in without R4. Because this is a planned part of the playstyle, you can be fairly certian that every charge will be used every game. Which makes R2 a double shield upgrade for LESS than the cost of a single ACTUAL shield upgrade. (R2D2 is a TRIPLE shield for the same cost as a shield upgrade)

Edited by Rakaydos

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34 minutes ago, Elrod the Albino said:

Well, apart from points, the app can also adjust available upgrades. 

 

Maybe give it access to two system slots. Or maybe tech slots if that is still a thing.

I think Tech has been previewed with the Resistance and FO stuff but I'm not 100% sure I remember correctly.

Depending on how they implement that... yeah, maybe.

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So I had another thought at this: A Starviper with a Shield Upgrade has the same statline as an X-Wing, but an extra agility (a lot like the E-Wing).  That'd be 54 for an Init 2 generic, 57 for an Init 3 with a Talent upgrade slot.  This is still 6-7 points cheaper than an E-Wing.  Starviper has better actions (linked focus >>>> linked Lock), the dials aren't radically of radically different quality levels, but the E-Wing has a better shield/hull ratio.  So FFG seems to value the long-range TLs at about 6 points over bendy barrel rolls.  I still think E-Wings just cost too much.

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7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

So I had another thought at this: A Starviper with a Shield Upgrade has the same statline as an X-Wing, but an extra agility (a lot like the E-Wing).  That'd be 54 for an Init 2 generic, 57 for an Init 3 with a Talent upgrade slot.  This is still 6-7 points cheaper than an E-Wing.  Starviper has better actions (linked focus >>>> linked Lock), the dials aren't radically of radically different quality levels, but the E-Wing has a better shield/hull ratio.  So FFG seems to value the long-range TLs at about 6 points over bendy barrel rolls.  I still think E-Wings just cost too much.

As I pointed out above, FFG is terrified of 3 knaves with Regen droids. Any point drop, and people will have to deal with 24 health behind 3 agility with Lock/focus stacking.

 

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3 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

As I pointed out above, FFG is terrified of 3 knaves with Regen droids. Any point drop, and people will have to deal with 24 health behind 3 agility with Lock/focus stacking.

 

Alternatively, they could just implement agility-based pricing on R2 and maybe R5 Astromechs.  Raise the cost of an R2 to 9, for example.  Or just ban the R2 and R5 astromechs on E-Wings... there's lore behind it that E-Wings were quite expensive "in universe" because they had to use newer R7 Astromechs, instead of older and cheaper R2 and R5 units like X-Wings could.  Anyhow, FFG has a lot of options.  There are no doubt a lot of tools they could use to prevent broken combos through the app.  And right now they've chosen to make E-Wings prohibitively expensive.

Anyhow, gave me a list idea.  Two R2-carrying E-Wings plus Miranda.  She'll have Advanced Slam and Barrage Rockets, for a somewhat similar hit-and-flee with regen.  Could go either Knaves with FCS, or Rogues without.  There's a few wiggle points for maybe Proton Bombs or Chewbacca crew or something.

Edited by theBitterFig

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