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Zura

So, let's talk first balance patch

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51 minutes ago, PT106 said:

Maybe the optimal fix would be a wording change on Jonus ability to exclude Barrage Rockets (for example, "When a friendly ship at range 0-1 performs ordnance attack on a ship it has locked, that ship may reroll up to 2 dice") as opposed to a price change.

The entire point of the app is to get away from the need for pages over pages of text errata and the Jumpmaster has shown that the "lets just remove one element and maybe that will fix it" approach is a bad idea. 

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13 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

NERF!!

BUFF!!

 

Ah, the good old days are back. . .

REBEL PLAYERS PLEASE: 

STOP COMPLAINING! AND PLAY MORE

onestly i had about 6 games (not so much) with 2'edition and none of them has been finished with a great disparity of force on the field.

Maybe it's not enough to fell the problem but now I think that the game in quite balanced

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5 hours ago, Zura said:

It's not a big deal now, they specifically created a system in which they can now readjust points every week if they wanted to and it wouldn't confuse anyone because their cards still do the same things as they used to. 

I don't get hating on people that play a lot and want it to become as balanced experience as possible. It's great right now, but it can always get better. For example, on league of legends forums there is no stigma on nerfing/buffing characters, usually devs are really open to the idea and players share their ideas to rebalance the characters. X-wing boards are a strange place in which trying to start a discussion about what could be rebalanced is considered a whiny/bad thing to do. We all know that balance patches are coming. Why make conversations about this a taboo? 

I've chucked a lot of dice, and I've flopped a lot of cards, and I've never seen a game that's balanced for everything.

More importantly, I've already seen a comment (can't find it now) that someone's first 2.0 experience was a bunch of players simply trying to find all the power combos.  So that essentially, the way they "enjoy" XWM is a deliberate attempt to vandalize the meta.

What this has actually done is forced FFG to spend 2 years creating a system to parent power-munchkin gamers.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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Someone's first experience seems to have sucked or been horribly exaggerated because it's the only post of that kind

We've spent our launch tournie...playing the game? It's a lot of fun now that you can actually see some variety on the table!

Plus, there is no "broken combo". I see far too much griping about single-instance losses and not enough playing 

Broken combos are a symptom of first edition, second edition has done an incredible job ensuring that unkillable ships with guaranteed defenses are a thing of the past. Now you can actually bring bare minimum upgrades and do VERY well 

And if I had a nickel for every guy for complaining about someone like palob while forgetting their ships can ******* Target-lock...

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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31 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I've chucked a lot of dice, and I've flopped a lot of cards, and I've never seen a game that's balanced for everything.

More importantly, I've already seen a comment (can't find it now) that someone's first 2.0 experience was a bunch of players simply trying to find all the power combos.  So that essentially, the way they "enjoy" XWM is a deliberate attempt to vandalize the meta.

What this has actually done is forced FFG to spend 2 years creating a system to parent power-munchkin gamers.

but thats the people who win big tournaments and then get to create cards

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4 hours ago, kerbarian said:

Agreed.  No one would have any complaints about barrage bombers without Jonus.  They’re the same cost as an Alpha or basic Striker with similar damage output.  They’re a bit tougher but less maneuverable and need their action to maintain damage.

Jonus could go up by 10 points (comparable to Howl but on the bomber frame) and he’d still be fine.

The problem with that is that Jonus is then only ever worth taking in a barrage swarm, as his ability is much less meaningful with all other ordnance. I'd rather we wait and see how good the list really is first. It's certainly easy to fly, and if you joust it you will probably lose, but that doesn't mean it's OP, especially considering nobody knows what they're doing yet. 

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To tackle the bomber problemo, I'd just start by cracking up Jonus a lot

I know he's cheaper than Howlrunner because you need to pay more points on upgrades to actually use it, but he's also on a bomber and comes out only 2 points pricier with rockets

I'd knock him up to 40 base to start (46 with rockets), though I could easily see him hitting 50 (with rockets) and still being very relevant

Other bombers just don't feel like an issue. They're cheap and efficient, but they're awful without focus (meaning they're super terrible on the kturn round). It's a good balance of skill-rewarding gameplay, as a mistake with a bomber means turning into a glorified tie fighter.

 

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15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

To tackle the bomber problemo, I'd just start by cracking up Jonus a lot

I know he's cheaper than Howlrunner because you need to pay more points on upgrades to actually use it, but he's also on a bomber and comes out only 2 points pricier with rockets

I'd knock him up to 40 base to start (46 with rockets), though I could easily see him hitting 50 (with rockets) and still being very relevant

Other bombers just don't feel like an issue. They're cheap and efficient, but they're awful without focus (meaning they're super terrible on the kturn round). It's a good balance of skill-rewarding gameplay, as a mistake with a bomber means turning into a glorified tie fighter.

 

Agreed. I really think people are underestimating how action hungry the bombers are. Sure, a focus is usually easier to get than a lock, but you have to refocus every single turn. Jonus is also super easy to kill as there is no Iden to keep him safe. They are also extremely vulnerable to good range control, as they are terrible at range one. 

They are certainly something to keep an eye on, but I think it is a bit early to try and nerf a whole list into oblivion. 

Edited by HolySorcerer

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There is so much incorrect groupthink about the poor TIE bombers. For one sweet moment they have a small place in the meta. Remember people, we want MORE ships and pilots to be viable. I have accurate MathyWing numbers for the relevant cards. Efficiency #'s are referenced to the generic x-wing which is 100%. Remember, you CANNOT just use your feelings to balance X-wing.

  • Scimitar Bomber 28 points -- 102.8%
  • Scimitar with Rockets 34 points -- 102.0%
  • Captain Jonus with Rockets 42 points -- 117.8%
  • Bonus info: Generic TIE Punishers are still bad. 42 points with rockets -- 89.4%

Here are the conclusions.

  1. The Scimitar is 1 point undercosted. This costing is VERY close to correct, so we have to WAIT and see how the meta shapes up.
  2. Barrage Rockets are perfectly costed at 6 points. Ship efficiency should not change with this upgrade. Remember upgrades should not be AUTO INCLUDE.
  3. Captain Jonus is the problem. He is 8-9 points undercosted. His base price is cheaper than Howlrunner!

All the good named pilots in second edition are in the region of 105-115% efficiency. Beginning at about 5% efficiency is when it really affects a pilots performance. If you want generic pilots to have a chance, most named pilots need cost increases.

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7 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Can A Tie Swarm beat a Bomber Swarm?
Seems like a no at this point.  Tie Fighter point decrease! 
 

This matchup is decided with 95% player skill. If TIE swarm player gets the block and denies focus tokens, TIE swarm easily wins. TIE swarm also has Iden Versio protecting Howlrunner. Jonus is unprotected.

The swarm that actually wins is possibly Howlrunner, Iden, with naked scimitar bombers. But no one is creative enough to try this or even talk about it.

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I cant' understand all this hate toward jonus.

He has got a powerfull ability on a decent ship. Nothing more

I don't play scum so i don't know to much about them but:

Rebels has got horton salm's y wing (yes also rebels has got bombers) that for 38 points is a sort of same weaker ability on a better and more customizable ship or in alternative the Braylen stramm's b wing that can easely reroll 2 dice (for 50 points but on a very better ship). Han solo's millennium falcon can reroll all his dices if they sucks ............ and more and more

Also other factoion has got similar abilities, maybe in this case the jonus imperial one is a little better.... but frankly you (rebels and scum players) are plenty of other powerfull stuff to compensate.

If you think evry imperial player will use only jonus you are wrong.

To me Alpha stricke is borig for example

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defenders get a price reduction?

Theyre actually pretty spot on imo. Theyre not disgustingly good but at the same time they are still quite lethal. Mostly blaming Juke for this though.

Theyre the only instance of a high cost ship that doesnt die to a stiff breeze. A decked out defender pushes 100pts with ease and does so much more work than a 120pt decimator....

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20 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Theyre the only instance of a high cost ship that doesnt die to a stiff breeze. A decked out defender pushes 100pts with ease and does so much more work than a 120pt decimator....

You don't even need 100 pts on decked out Defender.
Rexler with juke is all you need and it costs 88 pts.

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1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

The Scimitar should be more efficient than the xwing, the xwing has a better dial and better repositioning. 

I take into account dials and actions into a ships efficiency #. I am of the mentality that efficiency numbers are most relevant if they are directly comparable. With the bombers upgraded dial, it is very comparable to the X-wing. The X-wings biggest advantage over the bomber is access to boost. The bomber even has a native linked action.

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10 hours ago, Zura said:

I don't get hating on people that play a lot and want it to become as balanced experience as possible.

No ones hating on anything. 

We are trying to prevent FFG from making a knee jerk reaction to a bunch of people trying to change things DAYS after release. It’s not the wanting balance that is the problem, it’s the timing. Unless you have THOUSANDS of games with meaningful info recorded for each it isn’t possible to know for certain what, if anything, is broke and by how much. 

Post this thread in 6 months and it’ll be a much more productive conversation. 

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I think the JumpMaster could really use a Sensor upgrade slot. That would give it more of an identity as a large base Scum ship and help pull it out of the nerf hole that was dug for it during 1st edition and carried over to 2nd. Plus, it's thematic for a ship that was built to scout/map/explore. 

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Mods need some adjustment maybe? I see 3 Mod slots on my Kihraxzes and no Mods that seem worth taking.. Either that or maybe the Kihraxz needs some specific fix. Like reducing the cost of mods a la Vaksai. And/or just coming down slightly in cost, except the 40p Cartel Marauder.

Same with Illicits, seem a little overpriced.

Gunner Han up.

Jumpmasters down.

Edited by westiebestie

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8 hours ago, westiebestie said:

Mods need some adjustment maybe? I see 3 Mod slots on my Kihraxzes and no Mods that seem worth taking.. Either that or maybe the Kihraxz needs some specific fix. Like reducing the cost of mods a la Vaksai. And/or just coming down slightly in cost, except the 40p Cartel Marauder.

Same with Illicits, seem a little overpriced.

Gunner Han up.

Jumpmasters down.

Eh, there will be more mods down the line though. Hopefully wave 2 brings a couple interesting options in for the high agility ships - low agility already wants to slap on hull ups for dirt cheap.

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