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Kieransi

I disagree with FFG greatly on OP formats

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2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm inclined to disagree on this one.

The force powers (and force tokens in general) might very well be very powerful abilities, but there's a clear end game there.  And that's keeping the iconic Star Wars characters front and centre.  Luke, Vader, Rey, Kylo and other force sensitive pilots will most likely be able to hold their own into the foreseeable future as a result of this mechanic.  They're essentially future proofed.

Giving them the force charges and upgrade slot is the future proofing. SR is over the top, and makes them pre Nerf Whisper. That's excessive. 

Anyways, I think we are all arguing needlessly since the devs have said on multiple occasions that there will be highly competitive events with both formats. Both with paths to worlds. 

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Here's a good excercise for people playing extended

Instead of simply assuming you got steamrolled by something broken, first examine what you did wrong 

For example, I just got steamrolled by boba koshka. Firespray op?

...or are two medium base kimoglia just ridiculously clunky since they don't have aux arc or good repositioning?

Heres a hint: it's the latter 

 

Take your loss, learn, then improve before reaching a premature verdict

In the future, one kimoglia per list for me. So good with r5-p8 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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14 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Here's a good excercise for people playing extended

Instead of simply assuming you got steamrolled by something broken, first examine what you did wrong

Pretty much this.  At the moment, people are experimenting.  Trying out all the new ships/pilots/upgrades/combinations.  It's only natural that some will work and some won't.  It's only natural that some players will hit on a winning formula earlier than others, or that some players won't have a great deal of experience flying the lists they're bringing to the table.

That's not a sign that anything's broken; it's a sign that everything's new.

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Dear lord, this thread turned into a dumpster fire.  Some of you are some really terrible internet people. 

If we could get 1-2 new players for each one of you miserable veteran wretches who would quit if the primary format was Second Edition, I'd couldn't be more excited. 

BUT, they've already said the primary format is going to be Extended, so....whatever.  Continue being horrible on the internet.

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21 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Dear lord, this thread turned into a dumpster fire.  Some of you are some really terrible internet people. 

If we could get 1-2 new players for each one of you miserable veteran wretches who would quit if the primary format was Second Edition, I'd couldn't be more excited. 

BUT, they've already said the primary format is going to be Extended, so....whatever.  Continue being horrible on the internet.

Maybe instead of patronising tone you would point out specifically which quotes were such a horrible dumpster fire that grown-up man voluntarily engaging in on-line discussion wouldn't handle?
Because now I can say that someone is showing special snowflake "being offended" mentality.

Also, I love how disrespecting you are towards veteran players - you know, guys that made this game as popular and financially successful as it is now.

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New guy came in for today's tournament

With a spray a fang...and two quads

Wouldve LOVED telling him he couldn't use half his list 

 

Yeah, doesn't seem wise to assume that forcing this format on everyone is automatically a good idea 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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52 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

New guy came in for today's tournament

With a spray a fang...and two quads

Wouldve LOVED telling him he couldn't use half his list 

 

Yeah, doesn't seem wise to assume that forcing this format on everyone is automatically a good idea 

Can't use half my list.... You underestimate my power!!!

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Agree ?%. I believe that for maximum balance you need a concise pool of content, and availability of all ships that are legal should be available for purchase as much as possible, the format for all regulated events should be Second Ed only. Extended format should be the special side event and alternate, not the norm. I know the events I run at our store will follow that thinking. Special events will also be common for us when we have the inkling to do so.

Wouldn't be surprised if they had the mouse in their ear about it though. 

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On 9/21/2018 at 3:39 PM, Kieransi said:

In the Nova open speech, Alex said that the majority of competitive events will be the unlimited format, and the new-release-only format (which he called the "limited" format) will be secondary, with a few more casual events but only up to the stores to decide to implement "if they think they need new players."

I feel like that's backwards.

Like, they should make most events, and all the top tier events 2.0-only to be more fair. But at the low level do whatever you want, including conversions.

People who are "good" practice for top-tier events. So if you make top-tier events new release only, you avoid the NPE of "the good player at the store keeps crushing me with stuff I can't even buy"

I just want people who want to play competitive games to be playing new release only. It's more balanced for one, and it's more accessible and exciting for new players.

If you like B-Wings so much, fly 'em casual. If you want to fly competitive, wait for your B-Wings like everyone else.

My community is mostly dead and the only hope for X-Wing here is to have new players join.

There's a reason I'm posting this here besides just dumping a ****storm. I want FFG and others here to see this because I am an old player, have been playing this game for 5 years, have spent thousands of dollars on stuff and several hundred more on conversions, and yet I'd much rather have a healthy game that new players join than be able to fly all my old ships right away. 

I want to tell new players to play X-Wing. I really do. It's a great game. But the $1000 buy-in means I just can't justify telling people to play this game. Moreover, saying "go find all this stuff on eBay" really doesn't build confidence in the game at all. 

Nope. No way do we hold up an entire gaming community so the NKOTB can slowly accumulate ships. Your idea is by far one of the worst I've heard in a long time. It might actually be worse than the squad builder that was released, and that's pretty terrible.

Shame.

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13 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

Agree ?%. I believe that for maximum balance you need a concise pool of content, and availability of all ships that are legal should be available for purchase as much as possible, the format for all regulated events should be Second Ed only. Extended format should be the special side event and alternate, not the norm. I know the events I run at our store will follow that thinking. Special events will also be common for us when we have the inkling to do so.

Wouldn't be surprised if they had the mouse in their ear about it though. 

A few years back, right after the Asmodee merger, FFG redid their contracts/distribution with online stores - emphasizing support for "local game stores". I imagine that was one of their priorities when deciding how to handle an edition switch. Had they cut 1.0 cold turkey, local stores would have been stuck with a lot of unsupported extra product - especially since there were waves still moving when they announced the switch.  My guess (and this is just a guess) is that it would be a tough sell to get local stores to carry new stock when they now have stuff they can't sell for a profit. Extended lets them clear their existing inventory (in theory) while simultaneously carrying the new edition. 

Any other decision would undermine their "support" for the local stores (as they claimed a few years back).

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6 minutes ago, puntspeedchunk said:

A few years back, right after the Asmodee merger, FFG redid their contracts/distribution with online stores - emphasizing support for "local game stores". I imagine that was one of their priorities when deciding how to handle an edition switch. Had they cut 1.0 cold turkey, local stores would have been stuck with a lot of unsupported extra product - especially since there were waves still moving when they announced the switch.  My guess (and this is just a guess) is that it would be a tough sell to get local stores to carry new stock when they now have stuff they can't sell for a profit. Extended lets them clear their existing inventory (in theory) while simultaneously carrying the new edition. 

Any other decision would undermine their "support" for the local stores (as they claimed a few years back).

Problem, we are no longer able for many of the stores in our area to stock the first Ed product that would allow someone to play all of extended in the first place. Currently when I checked our store the Guardtower (two locations) couldn't order Sabines tie, Gunboat, Striker, Guns for Hire, and a few others that I know of currently. It's currently being anticipated that more will soon be off shelves till second Ed printings. The release of the second Ed stuff as it stands put the old stuff on the half price rack as it is anyway. I would be terribly misserving patrons of the store to host events that include product they can't acquire in the very store they play in.

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That's fair. Eventually it will be completely dried up - or have spotty access. But, it does still allow stores to sell what they have left of 1.0 and still be viable - otherwise, it would be firesales and clearances (which I would be in full support of, as I am sticking with 1.0, but I also recognize is not good for the local stores).

That also highlights the clear tension. Someone will be at a "disadvantage". If extended is not supported, then stores with leftover 1.0 and veteran pilots get burned ... but, new players are at a completely level playing field. If extended is supported as the way to go, then new players get burned by potentially not having access to the full might of their respective sides. However, the rapid release schedule of 1.0 ships as 2.0 waves will remedy much of this - the gamble being the initial catch and draw of the "newness" of 2.0. 

In a vacuum, I agree: 2.0 only would be the way to keep level playing field. But it won't last ... not without constantly re-releasing the same ships to stay in "standard" cycles (much like MtG does with their dozens of copies of the same card).  From their past  commitments, not burning the established player base and the local stores (with their tight margins) is probably the safer decision.

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How long were the Y-wing, Phantom, K-wing, Gunboat, and any number of popular ships unavailable? Like if you were a new player a year ago, and wanted to play with Y-wings, you were out of luck. It was something like 6 months that you practically couldn’t get one. Gunboats have been out of stock most places for months.

It was ever thus. I had to wait months to get a flipping second X-wing at one point.

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1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

The line from FFG at the 2nd edition announcement was that they planned to have all existing 1st edition product re-released for 2nd edition ASAP.

It'll be interesting to see just how quick that ends up being.

With their notoriously slow "On The Boat" times and delays, that means they would have needed to be shipped ... a year ago to make ASAP happen ;) 

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3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

most every store in my area also doesn't stock every dang expac for X-wing miniatures and some never have for the entirety of first edition

didn't stop em from hosting some fun events

3 hours ago, millertime059 said:

How long were the Y-wing, Phantom, K-wing, Gunboat, and any number of popular ships unavailable? Like if you were a new player a year ago, and wanted to play with Y-wings, you were out of luck. It was something like 6 months that you practically couldn’t get one. Gunboats have been out of stock most places for months.

It was ever thus. I had to wait months to get a flipping second X-wing at one point.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel there's a bit of a difference between needing to wait for the next reprint later in the year and needing to wait for a new release that could be years (unless Wave 3 ends up being absolutely everything not already included in Waves 1 and 2).

4 hours ago, puntspeedchunk said:

A few years back, right after the Asmodee merger, FFG redid their contracts/distribution with online stores - emphasizing support for "local game stores". I imagine that was one of their priorities when deciding how to handle an edition switch. Had they cut 1.0 cold turkey, local stores would have been stuck with a lot of unsupported extra product - especially since there were waves still moving when they announced the switch.  My guess (and this is just a guess) is that it would be a tough sell to get local stores to carry new stock when they now have stuff they can't sell for a profit. Extended lets them clear their existing inventory (in theory) while simultaneously carrying the new edition. 

Any other decision would undermine their "support" for the local stores (as they claimed a few years back).

I don't know about your area, but mine has plenty of people buying 1.0 ships strictly for casual play.  Whether they're legal in tournaments or not, the 1.0 stuff's going to sell eventually.

 

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3 hours ago, millertime059 said:

How long were the Y-wing, Phantom, K-wing, Gunboat, and any number of popular ships unavailable? Like if you were a new player a year ago, and wanted to play with Y-wings, you were out of luck. It was something like 6 months that you practically couldn’t get one. Gunboats have been out of stock most places for months.

It was ever thus. I had to wait months to get a flipping second X-wing at one point.

How lucky for you that we now have conversion kits and you have everything needed to play the ship except for a base and an actual plastic shop.  Certainly you know someone who wouldn’t be so horribly put out to lend you a ship?

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6 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Problem, we are no longer able for many of the stores in our area to stock the first Ed product that would allow someone to play all of extended in the first place. Currently when I checked our store the Guardtower (two locations) couldn't order Sabines tie, Gunboat, Striker, Guns for Hire, and a few others that I know of currently. It's currently being anticipated that more will soon be off shelves till second Ed printings. The release of the second Ed stuff as it stands put the old stuff on the half price rack as it is anyway. I would be terribly misserving patrons of the store to host events that include product they can't acquire in the very store they play in.

That sucks, guardtower always had killer stock, picked up several hard to find ships there over the years. If those guys can’t get it, it’s gonna be hard for anyone to find. ?

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2 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

That sucks, guardtower always had killer stock, picked up several hard to find ships there over the years. If those guys can’t get it, it’s gonna be hard for anyone to find. ?

Exactly. But on the down low, between you me and the wall, Soldiery still has some of the stuff. I took what may have been the last guns for hire and a Sabines tie off their hands. Might go back for some Striker and Gunboat.

Edited by ForceSensitive

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9 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

The line from FFG at the 2nd edition announcement was that they planned to have all existing 1st edition product re-released for 2nd edition ASAP.

It'll be interesting to see just how quick that ends up being.

The word they used was 'eventually' not ASAP.  Do the maths... at 1 ship per wave and NEVER releasing a new Rebel ship it's 4-5 years.

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6 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

I'm indeed expecting them to release more than 1 ship per faction per wave.

I don't think that's realistic.  There's already 7 ships per wave just to tick off all the factions.

We'll see soon enough, but we already know there's not even a Rebel or Imp ship in Wave 2, and wave 3 has to load up two whole factions with new ships.

Theres not even an indication they'll do one per faction per wave, let alone multiple.  It's only a guess, but my guess is they know full well half the old ships will never be rereleased during the life of 2nd Ed.

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