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MicroThrusters and Tractor Beams.

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I had an interesting Interaction between a Starviper and a tractor token, Tractor beams cause the ship to preform a barrel roll and the Starviper's MicroThusters say that Barrel rolls Must use a bank. Do Starvipers still use the Straight or bank for this Interaction.

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1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Hm.

 

I don't think they would apply.  The tractor barrel roll isn't being performed by the ship 'you' it's being performed by the player whose ship assigned the token, so microthrusters wouldn't apply

"After a ship becomes tractored, the opposing player 
may choose one of the following effects:
The ship performs a barrel roll using the [1 ?] 
template
, selecting the direction of the barrel roll 
and the final position.
• The ship performs a boost using the [1 ?] 
template.
This barrel roll or boost can cause the ship to overlap 
an obstacle and does not count as performing an action" - page 18 of the rulesbook.

The ship preforms it... Sounds like you have to use the banks to me.

Edited by Icelom

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9 hours ago, Icelom said:

"After a ship becomes tractored, the opposing player 
may choose one of the following effects:
The ship performs a barrel roll using the [1 ?] 
template
, selecting the direction of the barrel roll 
and the final position.
• The ship performs a boost using the [1 ?] 
template.
This barrel roll or boost can cause the ship to overlap 
an obstacle and does not count as performing an action" - page 18 of the rulesbook.

The ship preforms it... Sounds like you have to use the banks to me.

TRACTOR
A ship is
tRactoRed
while it has equal to or greater than a
specific number of tractor tokens, according to its
size
: a small
ship requires at least one tractor token, a medium ship requires
at least two tractor tokens, and a large ship require at least
three tractor tokens. A tractor token is a orange token.
After a ship becomes tractored, the player whose effect applied the tractor
token may choose one of the following effects:
Perform a
barrel roll
using the [1
] maneuver template. The player
applying the effect selects the direction of the barrel roll and the ship’s
final position.
• Perform a
boost
using the [1
] maneuver template.
This move can cause the ship to
move through
or
overlap
an
obstacle
.
During the Engagement Phase, a ship with one or more tractor tokens rolls
one fewer defense die.
• Some
special weapons
inflict
tractor tokens instead of dealing damage.

 

From the RR.  WHich is as ever, different from the core rules.

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A tractor beam barrel roll is different to the action of doing a barrel roll and the player inflicting the token is the one performing the roll.

The rules state this:

After a ship becomes tractored, the player whose effect applied the tractor
token
may choose one of the following effects:
Perform a barrel roll using the [1 ?] maneuver template. The player
applying the effect selects the direction of the barrel roll and the ship’s
final position.

Do what the rules say to do. Don't do what they don't say to do.

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Many pilot and ship abilities use the word “you” to refer to the ship card’s
corresponding ship. Upgrade, damage, and condition cards that use the word
“you” refer to the ship to which the card has been dealt or equipped.

(ref guide P2)

and 

While you perform a barrel roll, you must use the or  template instead of the template.

(starviper card)

 so the You on the card refere to the ship, not the player who perform the tactor, no ?

Edited by DarkMaugan

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2 hours ago, DarkMaugan said:

Many pilot and ship abilities use the word “you” to refer to the ship card’s
corresponding ship. Upgrade, damage, and condition cards that use the word
“you” refer to the ship to which the card has been dealt or equipped.

(ref guide P2)

and 

While you perform a barrel roll, you must use the or  template instead of the template.

(starviper card)

 so the You on the card refere to the ship, not the player who perform the tactor, no ?

Yes.  And in this case, the player is performing the roll, not the ship.

At least, that's my argument.  It's not 100% explicit, I'd acknowledge, and it could do with some clarification from FFG.

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3 hours ago, eRADicator67 said:

A tractor beam barrel roll is different to the action of doing a barrel roll and the player inflicting the token is the one performing the roll.

The rules state this:

After a ship becomes tractored, the player whose effect applied the tractor
token
may choose one of the following effects:
Perform a barrel roll using the [1 ?] maneuver template. The player
applying the effect selects the direction of the barrel roll and the ship’s
final position.

Do what the rules say to do. Don't do what they don't say to do.

The player chooses... the ship still does the maneuver. As per the rules i quote.

"After a ship becomes tractored, the opposing player 
may choose one of the following effects:
 The ship performs a barrel roll using the [1 ?] 
template
, selecting the direction of the barrel roll 
and the final position.
• The ship performs a boost using the [1 ?] 
template.
This barrel roll or boost can cause the ship to overlap 
an obstacle and does not count as performing an action" - page 18 of the rulebook.

"After a ship becomes tractored, the player whose effect applied the tractor
token may choose one of the following effects:
• Perform a barrel roll using the [1 ?] maneuver template. The player
applying the effect selects the direction of the barrel roll and the ship’s
final position.
• Perform a boost using the [1 ?] maneuver template." - page 18 of rules reference

The first quote from the rules book clearly states the ship performs the action, the second quote from the rules reference clarifies that the person assigning the token chooses what the tractor ship will do, nowhere does it say the player is performing the action (note that this is insane on the face of it... as you are not doing a cartwheel beside the play board... the ship is always the thing doing the action)

So 1 bank barrel rolls is the answer.

Edited by Icelom

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On 9/21/2018 at 5:51 PM, Icelom said:

So 1 bank barrel rolls is the answer.

First no one knew.

Then it wasn't the answer.

Now it is! At least being tractored will be far more interesting with Starvipers.

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my .02

rule clearly states "ship performs a barrel roll using the 1 template"

It does not say "does a barrel roll" which everyone KNOWS uses the 1 template, but specifically states to use the 1 template.  

 

additionally, the rules state "the ship performs a barrel roll". while the SV says "while YOU perform a barrel roll" [emphasis added]. If the BR is due to a tractor I do not believe it is "YOU" doing the roll, rather the ship. 

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11 minutes ago, cwh008 said:

my .02

rule clearly states "ship performs a barrel roll using the 1 template"

It does not say "does a barrel roll" which everyone KNOWS uses the 1 template, but specifically states to use the 1 template.  

 

additionally, the rules state "the ship performs a barrel roll". while the SV says "while YOU perform a barrel roll" [emphasis added]. If the BR is due to a tractor I do not believe it is "YOU" doing the roll, rather the ship. 

I mean it's your 0.02 but not only is it wrong, it's wrong due to a really poor reading of the rules. 

The golden rule is card text always overrides the rules. The tractor beam rules could say you use the 2 template but you still wouldn't with the StarViper as the card text always overrides the rules where there is a conflict. 

'You' always refers to the ship, in this case the StarViper. The ship is performing the Barrel Roll, it's just controlled by the other player. 

 

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Q: Does the StarViper-class Attack Platform’s Microthrusters ship ability affect the barrel roll that results from becoming tractored?

A: Microthrusters does affect this barrel roll. The player whose effect assigned the tractor token determines the direction and position of the template.

From the sticky post at the beginning of the rules forum.

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4 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Amusingly, that ruling also means that, if a Starviper were to gain the ability to cloak, it would still use the 1-bank for decloaking, as well.  (Is there an "Echo" in here? ;) )

Actually it states when barrel rolling you must use the bank template instead of the straight, not specifically the 1 bank. So 2 bank barrel rolls when decloaking.

Microthrusters: While you perform a barrel roll, you must use the Icon maneuver bank left or Icon maneuver bank right template instead of the Icon maneuver straighttemplate.

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Yeah they missed out the word 'action' from the StarViper which makes it work this way but I still have expected them to go the other way based on the other intent based rulings. FFG gonna FFG though. 

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