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NeverBetTheFett

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Well I'm a new player, so take my experience as you will.  At a charity tournament last week I faced the "Cell" and I thought it was pretty powerful.  The person I was playing against is a veteran player, and one of the top players in our area.  He quickly neutralized my heavy hitters, and it was an uphill battle trying to take down his team.  From my very little experience, I don't think the team is invincible, but finding the right pieces to combat the "Cell" is for others with much more experience than I have.  On a side note, I have to say I'm really loving this game. Even though I only have about 5 games played I really like the mechanics and overall game play.

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35 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Well I'm a new player, so take my experience as you will.  At a charity tournament last week I faced the "Cell" and I thought it was pretty powerful.  The person I was playing against is a veteran player, and one of the top players in our area.  He quickly neutralized my heavy hitters, and it was an uphill battle trying to take down his team.  From my very little experience, I don't think the team is invincible, but finding the right pieces to combat the "Cell" is for others with much more experience than I have.  On a side note, I have to say I'm really loving this game. Even though I only have about 5 games played I really like the mechanics and overall game play.

Good to hear that a new player doesn't think it's broken really. I can honestly say that it looks fun to play. I'll never play it out of pure principle, but I could see why people would want to. I like playing brawlers and I think the command cards and map rotation are pretty good for that right now. I also think that Extra Armor was a genius addition to the game. It can bring back life to units like brawlers that have to get close up to get into position.  

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Our local player's Specter Cell hasn't won a game since he won the Store championship, but we all lost to Specter Cell in another store champ - different playstyles, different command card decks - a defensive deck (Heart of Freedom, additional defense dice, Kanan's card, etc.) makes it even harder to crack open. Stun is definitely key to keeping it at bay but killing them is another story. 

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Can somebody please recommend things to stun spectres with? Most units that I know can that stun won't often get a spare surge and still damage them because +1 block and sometimes kanan reroll or block tokens. And with doubt they can debuff your figures that can stun.

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11 minutes ago, NagyLaci said:

Can somebody please recommend things to stun spectres with? Most units that I know can that stun won't often get a spare surge and still damage them because +1 block and sometimes kanan reroll or block tokens. And with doubt they can debuff your figures that can stun.

Rebel you 100% should go with Tress or Jyn. Most lists should include a way to focus them up or to have Hera standing nearby. They're both great for the points and should not have an issue stunning a SC scum. 

Mercenaries you could use Punishing Strike. Yes it's a 2 pt card, but a lot of mercs can put through a weaken (some without an action like toxic dart). But imagine every round having a high potential to stun a figure? Maybe worth another look for the 2 pts. That or you can temp alliance in one of the ladies I mentioned above?

Imperials you could use Covering Fire. My friend has been using it lately and it's pretty nasty with Sentry droids. 0-0-0 is good for an initial stun and maybe a good first attack?

These are just some ideas that I see work well and against tough units. 

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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49 minutes ago, NagyLaci said:

Can somebody please recommend things to stun spectres with? Most units that I know can that stun won't often get a spare surge and still damage them because +1 block and sometimes kanan reroll or block tokens. And with doubt they can debuff your figures that can stun.

Also, see this Giant thread:

 

 

Spoiler alert: Set for Stun works even if you wouldn't get any damage through, and even if you can't make the accuracy.

Edited by ManateeX

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1 hour ago, NagyLaci said:

Can somebody please recommend things to stun spectres with? Most units that I know can that stun won't often get a spare surge and still damage them because +1 block and sometimes kanan reroll or block tokens. And with doubt they can debuff your figures that can stun.

Between either block tokens through EA or focus removal through Doubt there's not much chance of getting a good opportunity to get a stun off.  It's just highly likely your stunner either won't have the damage to push the stun through or won't have the surge available.    On top of that, you have to make sure you are actually able to capitalize on the stun.

Personally I feel like trying to handjam stun into your list through deployment cards is a bad idea to try and tech for SC.  It weakens you against the field and may not even help you that much w/ SC to begin with.

Edited by miguelj

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1 hour ago, ManateeX said:

Also, see this Giant thread:

 

 

Spoiler alert: Set for Stun works even if you wouldn't get any damage through, and even if you can't make the accuracy.

ummmmmm.....holy crap! Nice catch! I always assumed you had to do damage. This is clearly not the case. This is going to be an auto-include for me for the next little while!!!

 

1 hour ago, miguelj said:

Personally I feel like trying to handjam stun into your list through deployment cards is a bad idea to try and tech for SC.  It weakens you against the field and may not even help you that much w/ SC to begin with.

I agree that teching for one list is not always a great idea. However, in my experience most competitive gamers either come with meta or counter meta lists. So, in this case you either bring SC or ways to control it? Personally I don't think it will be a thing for everyone. Besides, it's definitely NOT as broken as the Uggs were. 

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1 hour ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

ummmmmm.....holy crap! Nice catch! I always assumed you had to do damage. This is clearly not the case. This is going to be an auto-include for me for the next little while!!!

Normally yes, but the way the card is written is that the opponent gets Stunned no matter what, the "Then, the target becomes Stunned" on the card

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On 9/27/2018 at 11:03 AM, NeverBetTheFett said:

Imperials you could use Covering Fire. My friend has been using it lately and it's pretty nasty with Sentry droids. 0-0-0 is good for an initial stun and maybe a good first attack?

I'm trying a Sentry Droids/0-0-0 list right now... Since card draw is so limited, I could never pull Covering Fire when I needed it. But 0-0-0 really makes SC nervous... if I can get them to overextend and waste 2 attacks taking out 0-0-0, I am happy with that.

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8 hours ago, cnemmick said:

I'm trying a Sentry Droids/0-0-0 list right now... Since card draw is so limited, I could never pull Covering Fire when I needed it. But 0-0-0 really makes SC nervous... if I can get them to overextend and waste 2 attacks taking out 0-0-0, I am happy with that.

I have been trying out various vader builds using 0-0-0 as well and it really is an annoying piece for the cell. At least in my games I feel thrat the ”discouregment factor” of 0-0-0 it much greater then the actual threat; Cell players play less agressively with the force users then they normally would. I have actually had (for no real reason) success with ATDP against the cell. It feels like the cell does not like to go up against other Queen pieces.

My IG + quays + Onar is doing ok too. Their deployments are better but my command deck beats theirs on an average day. 

Also a fun fact: I beat a cell list with Royal guard champion. Their may have been loads of luck involved, but i did it. :)

Edited by Ram

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Just a couple more notes on the cell:
They do not like White Dice much. There is not super amounts of rerolling for them and since all their activations are single shot (except Zeb and to a small extent Sabine) any Dodge is very bad for them.
In the game when the RGC won, I snuck ( = rushed ) into the backfield and managed to get both Chopper and Hera. That really hurt. Now, that was an exceptional situation but in general any backfield messup piece ( Boba after fix of awesomeness! ;) ) has potential. Either split their forces, cut acts or force the cell to move as a box. Its not a huge deal in any way, but its something at least.

One thing that I can not wrap my head around though is targeting priority... It feels totaly situational to me, I can not even find a real one as a starting Point... Any thoughts?
 

 

Edited by Ram

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7 hours ago, Ram said:

They do not like White Dice much.

I mean, who does llike white dice, besides hunters, who can get through white dice some of the time.

It's more accurate to say that white dice is the only hope of mitigating damage at all against SC due to Kanan/Ezra's Pierce 3 attacks basically making black dice worthless.

Edited by miguelj

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5 minutes ago, miguelj said:

I mean, who doesn't, besides hunters, who can get through white dice some of the time.

It's more accurate to say that white dice is the only hope of mitigating damage at all against SC due to Kanan/Ezra's Pierce 3 attacks basically making black dice worthless.

It is more devestating to have an attack dodged when you only have 4 real attacks then when you have 6-7 like several others do.  

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On 10/1/2018 at 8:30 AM, Ram said:

It is more devestating to have an attack dodged when you only have 4 real attacks then when you have 6-7 like several others do.  

If you’re gonna spectre cell right you have more than 4 real attacks. Ezra has multiple attacks rather easily with brash movement twice getting him into position for pummel before the second round engagement happens. Or strength in numbers getting any of your heavy hitters into position, hitting, and then activating Hera or chopper, and tapping spectre cell, and likely offing one of those 6-7 opponent’s attacks before it got to do anything. That’s just a few ways the spectre team finds ways to mitigate figure count and still get more attacks than you expect on the surface. 

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7 hours ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

If you’re gonna spectre cell right you have more than 4 real attacks. Ezra has multiple attacks rather easily with brash movement twice getting him into position for pummel before the second round engagement happens. Or strength in numbers getting any of your heavy hitters into position, hitting, and then activating Hera or chopper, and tapping spectre cell, and likely offing one of those 6-7 opponent’s attacks before it got to do anything. That’s just a few ways the spectre team finds ways to mitigate figure count and still get more attacks than you expect on the surface. 

Sure. And then you are already down to 4 activations from Son of Skywalker - Pummel and miss many of your attacks from On the lam. Since we are talking command card usage that is.

I agree, Spectre cell is a complex beast to analyze and the extra attack from the card itself is a straight factor in there and then Zeb actually hits twice all on his own if Close enough. There are ways to mitigate the low attack Count, but fact remains that the number of activations and number of attacks are lower then the average band and as such they are a bit more sensitive to flat out missing one of them. Its not a huge deal, but its not to be ignored either.

Edited by Ram

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Chopper has some kind of small attack on the terminal. Hera has a good attack, Kanan has a good attack, Ezra has a good attack, Sabine has a good attack plus a grenade and Zeb has two good attacks. Plus the SC attack. All of that with plus 1 damage (except Chopper and grenade). This adds up to about 9 attacks, most of them with +1 damage. This is not lower than the average team, this is far above.

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1 hour ago, DerBaer said:

Chopper has some kind of small attack on the terminal. Hera has a good attack, Kanan has a good attack, Ezra has a good attack, Sabine has a good attack plus a grenade and Zeb has two good attacks. Plus the SC attack. All of that with plus 1 damage (except Chopper and grenade). This adds up to about 9 attacks, most of them with +1 damage. This is not lower than the average team, this is far above.

I am obviosly not making myself clear...

In a Vader list, say Vader, 2 eJets, 1 eRiots and 2 rOfficers, I say that 7 guys are there to do damage (vader, 4 jets and 2 riots) and the officers in general are not.

In a Hunter list, say IG, 2 eQyays, Onar, Greedo and 2 rJawas, I say there are 7 guys there to do damage and the Jawas in general are not.

In a Cell list, in a similar way there are five if we consider Hera a damage dealer. Any time a source in that setup fails to deal damage (x-man eg), it is a slightly bigger impact then if a Quay gets x-ed simply because the investment is slightly lower. However, by law of averages, the damage prevented by x:es over the game will average out and the damage will be the same.

I am not questioning the Cells ability to dish out damage in any way, I am saying that each attack is more important in the final sum.   

Edited by Ram

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SC has 7.5 strong attacks available to them every round. Kanan, Ezra, Zebx2, Sabine, Parting Gift, Hera and Spectre Cell.

Hera has the same damage profile as an unfocused Han Solo. That is a strong attack. 

The ability to throw out 2 titan-level attacks in a single activation with very little pre-positioning required is what is so back-breaking about the list, in addition to the fact that it is nearly impossible to kill a full health Spectre before it gets to activate and wreck you. 

I'm a Spectre Cell player who thinks it's a fun list that is too strong and it's warping the game around it in a negative way. If they removed the +1 block I think it would be fine. 

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12 hours ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

Just saw that the "who's the boss" list won in the Scandinavian/Nordic comps.  What?!  SC didn't win?  I thought SC was so unbalanced and OP?  Hmm... 

A list doesn't have to win everything to be bad for the game, but feel free to hold on to the "It didn't win this one time so it's obviously fine" fallacy I guess?

Edited by miguelj

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1 hour ago, Tvboy said:

SC has 7.5 strong attacks available to them every round. Kanan, Ezra, Zebx2, Sabine, Parting Gift, Hera and Spectre Cell.

Hera has the same damage profile as an unfocused Han Solo. That is a strong attack. 

The ability to throw out 2 titan-level attacks in a single activation with very little pre-positioning required is what is so back-breaking about the list, in addition to the fact that it is nearly impossible to kill a full health Spectre before it gets to activate and wreck you. 

I'm a Spectre Cell player who thinks it's a fun list that is too strong and it's warping the game around it in a negative way. If they removed the +1 block I think it would be fine. 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the point that SC have more strong attacks than the average list (I'm far too lazy to do the research ?), but it is worth noting that Kanan, Ezra and one of Zeb's attacks are melee. A strong melee attack is not as versatile as a strong ranged attack, and the map played will make a more significant difference to a list that relies on almost 50% melee attacks.

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7 hours ago, miguelj said:

feel free to hold on to the "It didn't win this one time so it's obviously fine" fallacy I guess?

I also hold on to the "I beat my 10 year old once, while she was using SC so it's obviously fine" fallacy. 

Also, it's not just been "one time" that non SC lists have won.    I agree that SC is too powerful but it doesn't bother me that much.  I think things will balance out.  Meta will change and that is fine.  I'm happy we have new stuff and I hope we keep getting more.  I'm actually more tired of all the whinging.  I guess I actually hold on to the "quit whinging and enjoy the game" fallacy.  

I'm sure new stuff will come out and swing the pendulum the other way and probably everyone will complain about that being OP.  Like the original poster was saying, thanks FFG for giving us fun new stuff to play our silly game with.  I'm stoked. 

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On 11/9/2018 at 8:10 PM, Mandelore of the Rings said:

I also hold on to the "I beat my 10 year old once, while she was using SC so it's obviously fine" fallacy. 

Also, it's not just been "one time" that non SC lists have won.    I agree that SC is too powerful but it doesn't bother me that much.  I think things will balance out.  Meta will change and that is fine.  I'm happy we have new stuff and I hope we keep getting more.  I'm actually more tired of all the whinging.  I guess I actually hold on to the "quit whinging and enjoy the game" fallacy.  

I'm sure new stuff will come out and swing the pendulum the other way and probably everyone will complain about that being OP.  Like the original poster was saying, thanks FFG for giving us fun new stuff to play our silly game with.  I'm stoked. 

This is called Power Creep. It's what killed the 1st edition of X-Wing; PLEASE don't make that happen to this game too. Spectre Cell needs a nerf, even a small one. Not the figures (they're fine), just the skirmish upgrade. Taking away either the +1 damage or the +1 block would be enough to fix them and the game would be fun again.

I originally got into IA because of the warped meta in X-Wing; lists were only remotely viable if they could beat XYZ, which meant that certain types were never ever played and several ships that had been out-power-creeped were absolutely dead. Clearly there are dead units in this game (Fenn, Garkhaan, Rebel Troopers, etc.), but the solution is definitely not to continue raising and raising the power level.

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