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Bhelliom

Two articles in one week! Th'uk Tar's dial and upgrades

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https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/9/19/twisted-fearmonger/

10 Uniques! Gorgemaw especially looks like you can really customize his battlefield role.

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Ok let's see here: dial is pretty great. Starting with red, fighting at 4 is nothing special, but good modifiers especially with the way he looks to be able to stack lethal/Thrashing Tail. His blue advances are pretty solid in Beastmaster form, excellent with Gorgemaw. Green is where it's really exciting, giving him heaps of really early mobility options. Very excited to see what Gorgemaw can do, slipping around enemies and thrashing about.

Edited by Bhelliom

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That's a lot of unique cards!

While I love the whole double spin to maim, I don't see it being an applicable scenario often.  Maybe if you occupy a terrain?  After you take a tray that you were in contact with?

Is there something I am missing here?  Sounds fun, but how often do you get to use it?

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2 hours ago, Xquer said:

That's a lot of unique cards!

While I love the whole double spin to maim, I don't see it being an applicable scenario often.  Maybe if you occupy a terrain?  After you take a tray that you were in contact with?

Is there something I am missing here?  Sounds fun, but how often do you get to use it?

Gorgemaw considers his front edge to be touching the front edge of all enemies at Range 1 and in LOS. So he's A-OK with meleeing while not engaged. So he gets to attack one or more units with the double attack, and then get the double spin in there, too. He likes being the center of attention, so long as nobody hugs him.

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I'm really excited by this.  I like that each hero has a completely different play-style.  He's not brutal, but he gets a lot of light multi-attack moves.  Then he gets the characteristic Uthuk high health and relatively speaking, lower armor.  But then you can take him with his worm for a an armor 3 and health 5 hero who will undoubtedly hold up well throughout the game.  I'm definitely getting him and putting him in play.

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1 hour ago, Budgernaut said:

Somewhat disappointingly, I find myself much more interested in Th'Uk Tar than Viper Legion. He looks like a lot of fun to play.

My first few tries of Viper Legion have them as a really effective buff/de-nerf effect for Uthuk. I was trying a 2 tray with Rank and Rallying Shrieker for 26 and it carried its weight really well. 

Edited by Church14

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6 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:

Oooh they are a great Rallying Shrieker platform aren't they. I think the Trapmaster looks like a lot of fun, sad to see it's unique.

I’m going to try what I for some reason called Viper Hugs (and I now can’t get he name out of my head).

Viper Legion Archers [33] 2x2
Viper Trapmaster [1]
Ritual Venom [3]
Rallying Shrieker [4]
Total Unit Cost: 41

Basically, debuff as much as possible while acting as a nerf-shield for my own. The surge to lethal means they should average 5 damage or so with a skill dialed in. 

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51 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Minor issue at the moment, but ThukTar and Gorgemaw has to unique slots, not just one. 

Hm, weird. I have it as 2 in my database but I see they're not both showing up in the builder. I'll have to look into it. Thanks.

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I am getting sick of seeing Uthuk stuff always being just 1 or two steps better than everything else, starting to turn me off from the game.  Its like FFG isnt even trying to bring everyone to the same level.  I keep hoping the next unit wont be as bad and am always disappointed. /sigh

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40 minutes ago, Tarliyn said:

I am getting sick of seeing Uthuk stuff always being just 1 or two steps better than everything else, starting to turn me off from the game.  Its like FFG isnt even trying to bring everyone to the same level.  I keep hoping the next unit wont be as bad and am always disappointed. /sigh

Huh? 

 

Daqan an just got BaronZ, which opens up list building by making embedded figures almost unsnipable, gives Daqan an effective bane-slinger, and a a good brawler. Latari are about to get Ventala, which - in the few games we’ve had them in the table - look incredibly frustrating to face. Prince F looks to be no slouch either. Waiqar just got a badass, warp jumping Werebat who also looks like a game changer and an artifact that works on all 4 their units that naturally carry artifacts.

 

Uthuk get get some shenanigans characters. No facesmash units like they started with. 

 

So wait a moment. If you are salty and think other factions aren’t getting anything good, Jukey and I can write up some battle reports on our findings. 

Edited by Church14

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1 hour ago, Church14 said:

Huh? 

 

Daqan an just got BaronZ, which opens up list building by making embedded figures almost unsnipable, gives Daqan an effective bane-slinger, and a a good brawler. Latari are about to get Ventala, which - in the few games we’ve had them in the table - look incredibly frustrating to face. Prince F looks to be no slouch either. Waiqar just got a badass, warp jumping Werebat who also looks like a game changer and an artifact that works on all 4 their units that naturally carry artifacts.

 

Uthuk get get some shenanigans characters. No facesmash units like they started with. 

 

So wait a moment. If you are salty and think other factions aren’t getting anything good, Jukey and I can write up some battle reports on our findings. 

You can really look at the dials and upgrades that have come out and compare them to the other factions and honestly say you don't think they are a +1 to the equivalent units?  If a good player with a good uthuk list goes against a good player with another factions good list, the other faction has an uphill battle.  It isnt a huge discrepancy (certainly not as big as we all were orginally thinking) but there is one there, and when looking at all the new units as a collective that does not seem to be changing.  

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7 hours ago, Tarliyn said:

You can really look at the dials and upgrades that have come out and compare them to the other factions and honestly say you don't think they are a +1 to the equivalent units?  If a good player with a good uthuk list goes against a good player with another factions good list, the other faction has an uphill battle.  It isnt a huge discrepancy (certainly not as big as we all were orginally thinking) but there is one there, and when looking at all the new units as a collective that does not seem to be changing.  

Let’s look at the 3rd hero for each:

Charge imitative, distance 1/2/3/4

BaronZ - 2/3/7/-

Beastmaster - 2/4/6/-

Gorgemaw - 2/2/4/6

LordV - 3/6/7/-

Faolon - 2/4/6/

Hm. Beastmaster is the worst. The prince ties him, but can also armor up during a straight charge. LordV has far and away the longest “charge”range with his skill. BaronZ has the best spread. Gorgemaw takes beastmaster’s worst dial and makes it better, but Gorgemaw only gets movement buffs, so he should be better. 

 

Damage output (using melee mod, no flanks)

BaronZ (not betrayer) - roughly 6

BaronZ (Betrayer) - roughly 8

LordV - around 2.75

CursedV - around 4.5

Beastmaster (1 attack) - 4

Beastmaster (2 attacks) 2+2

Gorgemaw (1 attack) - 5

Gorgemaw (2 attacks) - 3+3

Prince (1 stable) - roughly 6

Promce (2 stable) - roughly 8

 

So, LordV gets screwed by not flanking, which he is likely to do, increasing cursed damage to 6,75. So, LordV has the worst damage with an asterisk. His skill makes flanking far more reliable. After that detail, the new Uthuk heroes do the least damage and do it over two swings. Making them very bad at hitting armor

 

 

What about army buffs?

Baron - vitality tokens to make Rune Golems and embedded figures a lot stronger.

LordV -Stun/immobilize token. Can Jank up a blitz army or any one unit that needs inspiration turn 1

Beastmaster - Move a non-hero to near Beastmaster. Okay, this one really is good. More and less powerful than Aliana.

Gorgemaw - I guess all those Rippers that use MoI are excited?

PrinceF - (almost) Everybody gets inspiration. This is good,  it not staggering most of the time,

 

uthuk dont really stand stand above the pack here either.

 

So what are you looking at that they seem to keep getting the best?

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10 hours ago, Tarliyn said:

You can really look at the dials and upgrades that have come out and compare them to the other factions and honestly say you don't think they are a +1 to the equivalent units?  If a good player with a good uthuk list goes against a good player with another factions good list, the other faction has an uphill battle.  It isnt a huge discrepancy (certainly not as big as we all were orginally thinking) but there is one there, and when looking at all the new units as a collective that does not seem to be changing.  

I'll agree that up to this point Uthuk have been ahead of the curve in some places - 2x1 Spined Threshers, Warsprinter, Insatiable Hunger, and Scuttling Horror all seem obviously too good for their cost - but the new stuff is way more technical. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's far from the straight forward combat efficiency they launched with. Th'uk Tar is not the one-man wrecking crew Ravos is, but instead a highly mobile independent harassing force or backline support that requires support and coordination to get even decent results out of (presumably, can't know for sure until we see everything). Viper Legion are cool, but their damage output is not spectacular among ranged units and instead they're perfect for a more control-oriented Uthuk we haven't seen yet, and Obscenes look to fit the same bill. In other words, I'd say Uthuk are getting more varied, not more powerful.

Compare this to Vorun'thul, who is supremely mobile, is virtually guaranteed a flank, and can even shift his enemies around! Zachareth who I'm a little uncertain about but he is at least solid among Daqan's already excellent hero selection, and Prince Faolan who, if the previews are any indication, can face down almost any opponent head to head and emerge victorious (while being hyper-mobile).

It seems clear to me that the designers are aware of the power discrepancy and are moving to address it.

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On 9/20/2018 at 7:52 AM, Church14 said:

My first few tries of Viper Legion have them as a really effective buff/de-nerf effect for Uthuk. I was trying a 2 tray with Rank and Rallying Shrieker for 26 and it carried its weight really well. 

I have no qualms about their effectiveness, but they don't appear to me to have as strong of a tie between mechanics and flavor compared to Th'Uk Tar.

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29 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

I have no qualms about their effectiveness, but they don't appear to me to have as strong of a tie between mechanics and flavor compared to Th'Uk Tar.

Not much in the game has as strong a tie between mechanics and flavor as Th'Uk Tar. The only ones that are on the same level, IMO, are Zachareth, Ardus, and the Fleshrippers—and Ardus's ability is kind of boring, even though it has a strong mechanic-to-flavor quotient.

Though to be fair, Viper Legion doesn't make my second level of mechanics-to-flavor, either. They sort of slog along in the lowest tier.

Edited by Xelto

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16 hours ago, Church14 said:

Huh? 

 

Daqan an just got BaronZ, which opens up list building by making embedded figures almost unsnipable, gives Daqan an effective bane-slinger, and a a good brawler. Latari are about to get Ventala, which - in the few games we’ve had them in the table - look incredibly frustrating to face. Prince F looks to be no slouch either. Waiqar just got a badass, warp jumping Werebat who also looks like a game changer and an artifact that works on all 4 their units that naturally carry artifacts.

 

Uthuk get get some shenanigans characters. No facesmash units like they started with. 

 

So wait a moment. If you are salty and think other factions aren’t getting anything good, Jukey and I can write up some battle reports on our findings. 

If you compare viper to crossbows or ventala they dont shine, but if you compare them to deepwood and reanminates they are on par.  If range was supposed to be their weakness as many people said for a while then viper legions closed that gap to more than half the ranged units currently in the game and to half the range units of stuff that has been announced.  And since we are talking range, uthuk have a crazy range capability in kethra.  

 

Church14 havent had time to respond to you yet, I apologize 

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1 hour ago, Tarliyn said:

If you compare viper to crossbows or ventala they dont shine, but if you compare them to deepwood and reanminates they are on par.  If range was supposed to be their weakness as many people said for a while then viper legions closed that gap to more than half the ranged units currently in the game and to half the range units of stuff that has been announced.  And since we are talking range, uthuk have a crazy range capability in kethra.  

 

Church14 havent had time to respond to you yet, I apologize 

Jukey and I were talking about Viper legion. Basically, they feel almost infuriatingly okay in every way we look at them.

Plain mobility: Deepwoods can shift/reform. Crossbows can reform/March. Reanimate Archers have a natural wheel. Viper legion has the reform as a second action and can’t wheel. So they feel like the fastest, but least maneuverable archers.

Keeping shots on target: Vipers are king here. Next wood be Xbows with the option to use their white March and Marching Cornicen. Deepwoods and Reanimates are way behind, though Deepwoods can use the surge-surge shift to adjust and try to keep in range/arc (especially with LotL).

Damage efficiency: They are 2nd behind Xbows. Only ahead of 

Bane generation: Reanimates are king here. Xbows really just pile on damage, no banes. Deepwoods and Vipers both get an upgrade that allows for three banes to be inflicted. Vipers get it cheaper, but require self harm to do it, Deepwoods pay more for one with no drawbacks and some HP.

So they are better and worse than all other options. Sounds good.

 

No problem on responding. Not everything I say earns a response. 

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