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Scum Questions...

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19 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

There's no clear ruling on whether you can ignore card restrictions to my knowledge, but I expect it to end up ruled the same as first edition, that you still have to follow restrictions.

Per the updated rules reference someone linked to in another thread, they cover exactly this example:

Q: Can Cikatro Vizago exchange an ? upgrade card onto a ship that could not normally equip it (such as equipping a Stealth Device to a Z-95 Headhunter and then exchanging it with a Rigged Cargo Chute on a YV-666)?
A: Yes. Restrictions are ignored after setup unless noted otherwise.

 

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20 hours ago, Enigami said:

Jabba-netics:
Any reason why I keep hearing about people trying this with the YV-666 and not the YT-1300?
5 turns of constant ability to do crazy stuff like K-Turn into Target Lock + Han gunner Focus for double modded 270 arc of missile/turret attacks, followed up by S-Loop into debris into red boost + red focus, into yet more absurd red action/maneuver spam seems really fun especially paired with lots of debris and Trick Shot or Outmaneuver. The only real downsides I see is it's kinda pricey at around 80 pts for everything you need, and you get a HUGE burnout with probably the biggest stack of Stress tokens ever, but if you murdalize things in those 5 turns once you pop Cybernetics I think it'd be worth it.

 

4 hours ago, gadwag said:

Speaking of baffle, you can also have some fun with feedback array and one or more ships with discharge vanes. Trigger feedback array and take a stress to pass away the ion token, keeping the disarm token. Since losing the ion token means you haven't paid the full cost of feedback array, ships at range 0 do not take damage. Instead, you get to pass an ion token to a ship in range 1 (you can't premeasure range as you would for an attack though 'cos it's before you engage). You can even pass the ion token along a chain of friendlies to reach an enemy ship far away, and then use dace bonearm to zap them good.

For crying out loud, the game hasn't even been out a week!  Can't we spend a little longer at least pretending that the point of the game is to dogfight other ships instead of to troll your opponent?

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9 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Aren't Cloaking Device and Feedback Array both Illicit, meaning this would only work on a Lancer?  Or am I misunderstanding a piece of the puzzle?

That wouldn't work on the Lancer even if you could equip the Cloaking Device, since its decloak effect would still trigger. It requires a small or medium base partner with an Illicit slot to let the large base swap Feedback Array for the cloaking device, cloak, and then pick the Feedback Array back up. It's the reason why it requires 2 turns of setup.

7 hours ago, gadwag said:

Baffle blast: You can only trigger the baffle during the end phase (so you couldn't roll up to someone and blow them up during activation). That's a pretty funny trick, and for 2pts of baffle it's not a bad idea. Edit: take a look at the spice runner quick build, I think you'll like what you find. 

Speaking of baffle, you can also have some fun with feedback array and one or more ships with discharge vanes. Trigger feedback array and take a stress to pass away the ion token, keeping the disarm token. Since losing the ion token means you haven't paid the full cost of feedback array, ships at range 0 do not take damage. Instead, you get to pass an ion token to a ship in range 1 (you can't premeasure range as you would for an attack though 'cos it's before you engage). You can even pass the ion token along a chain of friendlies to reach an enemy ship far away, and then use dace bonearm to zap them good.

Darnit, thought Discharge Vanes combo'd with Feedback Array. That would've been a nightmare for small base aces, taking both damage and Ion at the same time. Still tactically useful though, and the lack of self damage kind of evens things out. Bumps up the cost of the permacloak build from 11 to 17 though. I know baffle blasting (that name is perfect btw) is only end phase, but it still gives you bombs with perfect board knowledge that the enemy has to be wary of. The problem is you can get a whole Z-95 with those upgrades depending on how many kamika-Zs you bring. Deadman's Switch + Baffle's 4 pt cost 5x/7x times adds up quick, so those Deadman's Switches would need to make up for a whole missing ship.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Per the updated rules reference someone linked to in another thread, they cover exactly this example:

Q: Can Cikatro Vizago exchange an ? upgrade card onto a ship that could not normally equip it (such as equipping a Stealth Device to a Z-95 Headhunter and then exchanging it with a Rigged Cargo Chute on a YV-666)?
A: Yes. Restrictions are ignored after setup unless noted otherwise.

Awesome. Permacloaked Feedback Falcons, or maybe even Intimidate Latts Razzi, could be fun to mess with.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

For crying out loud, the game hasn't even been out a week!  Can't we spend a little longer at least pretending that the point of the game is to dogfight other ships instead of to troll your opponent? 

Never!

But seriously, this janky stuff should just bring more diverse strategies and challenges. Due to the costs odds are these will be gimmicks that show up from time to time but in practice aren't too much to worry about. Jabba-netics Falcon is still about dogfighting, it just gets absolutely an absolutely crazy dial and insane action efficiency for a limited time at the cost of a hefty price tag. And large-base Permacloak Feedback isn't trolling, it's strategy! ? Hopefully though it ends up being more fun than frustrating, especially considering the requirements for setup and the lack of red dice while cloaked. Though nothing says you can't decloak to engage, get the cloaking device back, spend that 2nd charge and swap back for Feedback again.

 

Edit: Also noticed there's still no answer about Qira one way or the other...
Edit 2: Heh, just noticed FFG's Scum quickbuilds use some of this jank. Quickbuild Dace Bonearm and Latts Razzi use the Feedback+Discharge Vanes combo, and generic HWKs and G1-A for some reason have the Deadman's Switch+Electronic Baffle kamikaze combo.

Edited by Enigami

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10 minutes ago, Enigami said:

And large-base Permacloak Feedback isn't trolling, it's strategy!

It's absolutely trolling.  You're saying, "I don't care about actually playing the game; I just want to irritate my opponent."

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That would only be the case if it's completely ineffectual and people run it for no other purpose than to annoy. If it's viable in any way and being played to win, then they ARE playing the game and you need to focus on not letting the thing mess with your team like any other gimmicky strategy.

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8 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Viability is irrelevant.  Whether it's effective or not doesn't change the fact that a list's purpose is annoyance and avoiding the core purposes of the game.

Just bring Jonus and some Barrage bombers and blat the thing out of the sky, cloak or no cloak.

9 hours ago, Enigami said:

Darnit, thought Discharge Vanes combo'd with Feedback Array. That would've been a nightmare for small base aces, taking both damage and Ion at the same time. Still tactically useful though, and the lack of self damage kind of evens things out. Bumps up the cost of the permacloak build from 11 to 17 though. I know baffle blasting (that name is perfect btw) is only end phase, but it still gives you bombs with perfect board knowledge that the enemy has to be wary of. The problem is you can get a whole Z-95 with those upgrades depending on how many kamika-Zs you bring. Deadman's Switch + Baffle's 4 pt cost 5x/7x times adds up quick, so those Deadman's Switches would need to make up for a whole missing ship.

The lack of self-damage with feedback discharging is actually kindof handy in my book, because it means that spending an extra 10pts on a Z-95 or Dace isn't pure craziness

Baffle blasters are expensive, you're right - but exploding Zs are one of the most fun things in the game! I'm a bit bummed that r5-tk is 1 instead of 0pts now :(

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11 hours ago, JJ48 said:

 

For crying out loud, the game hasn't even been out a week!  Can't we spend a little longer at least pretending that the point of the game is to dogfight other ships instead of to troll your opponent?

Check out the dace bonearm quick build. This combo is meant to exist.

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11 hours ago, JJ48 said:

 

For crying out loud, the game hasn't even been out a week!  Can't we spend a little longer at least pretending that the point of the game is to dogfight other ships instead of to troll your opponent?

This is the Scum faction. Of course, it'll have tools to troll the opponent. ?

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2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

A ship is at range 0 to itself. Feedback Array damages all ships at range 0. Can be used on the Lancer to trigger Deadman Switch. :)

It sure can!

What I was saying is that using discharge vanes prevents the feedback array damage. Ion and disarm tokens are the cost to pay for using the feedback array, but discharge vanes are a replacement effect on the ion. Replacement effects mean the original effect never occurred (according to the rules reference) so the damage doesn't trigger after discharge vanes. That's a good thing if you want to hand out ion tokens without dying

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32 minutes ago, gadwag said:

It sure can!

What I was saying is that using discharge vanes prevents the feedback array damage. Ion and disarm tokens are the cost to pay for using the feedback array, but discharge vanes are a replacement effect on the ion. Replacement effects mean the original effect never occurred (according to the rules reference) so the damage doesn't trigger after discharge vanes. That's a good thing if you want to hand out ion tokens without dying

I am not a rules lawyer but if the original effect does not trigger so does the outcome right? Which means every ship at range 0-1 will not get damage not just you. If you say you mitigate getting an Ion Token and only take the disarm token in order to trigger feedback, then you still get damage as any other ship around you. Its not the original effect that gives you damage in the case of Feedback array, its the outcome.

Edited by tsondaboy

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Just now, tsondaboy said:

I am not a rules lawyer but if the original effect does not trigger so does the outcome right? Which means every ship at range 0-1 will not get damage not just you. If you say you mitigate getting an Ion Token and only take the disarm token in order to trigger feedback, then you still get damage as any other ship around you.

Here's what happens:

  1. Before you engage (no measuring ranges) trigger feedback array, gaining an ion and a disarm token
  2. Trigger feedback vanes as a replacement effect on the ion token. If there are no ships within range 0-1, then you can't pass away the ion token and feedback array triggers as normal, damaging you.
  3. Assuming there is a ship (friendly or enemy) in range 1, you take a stress and pass the ion token to that ship. This is a replacement effect, which means that the effect it replaces no longer occurs.
  4. Since you have not paid the full cost of triggering feedback array (receiving both an ion and disarm token) feedback array does not trigger, and no one gets hurt. It's like 1.0 soontir passsing stress to yorr - if he does, then he doesn't get a free focus token from his ability

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2 minutes ago, gadwag said:

Here's what happens:

  1. Before you engage (no measuring ranges) trigger feedback array, gaining an ion and a disarm token
  2. Trigger feedback vanes as a replacement effect on the ion token. If there are no ships within range 0-1, then you can't pass away the ion token and feedback array triggers as normal, damaging you.
  3. Assuming there is a ship (friendly or enemy) in range 1, you take a stress and pass the ion token to that ship. This is a replacement effect, which means that the effect it replaces no longer occurs.
  4. Since you have not paid the full cost of triggering feedback array (receiving both an ion and disarm token) feedback array does not trigger, and no one gets hurt. It's like 1.0 soontir passsing stress to yorr - if he does, then he doesn't get a free focus token from his ability

Yup that's what I thought too. So you were using this combo not to do damage but just to hand out an Ion token. 
I can see situations were this can be helpful but you still end up stressed in the process so its rather iffy and you still have to pay 10 points for it.

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1 hour ago, Just Paulos said:

Is the IG-88 medium or large based? I ask as the S&V conversion kit specifically states that the Firespray, G-1A, Kimo and Scurgg are medium and says nothing about the IG-88. The wiki seems to think they are medium but can anyone clear this up for me?

It's medium

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