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theBitterFig

Full Throttle and Asteroids

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So this is more wanting confirmation for my reading of things, than exactly a question.  As I read it, Full Throttle on the TIE Defender no longer cares about Asteroids.

* "Full Throttle: After you fully execute a speed 3-5 maneuver, you may perform an [evade] action."

* "A ship Fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship. [Overlap, p.14]"

This is utterly agnostic with regards to obstacles.  Whether or not you fly over an obstacle does not effect fully executing.  Debris Clouds will still be important, since they provide a stress preventing you from taking an Evade action, but Asteroids don't seem to impact the ship ability.

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48 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

So this is more wanting confirmation for my reading of things, than exactly a question.  As I read it, Full Throttle on the TIE Defender no longer cares about Asteroids.

* "Full Throttle: After you fully execute a speed 3-5 maneuver, you may perform an [evade] action."

* "A ship Fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship. [Overlap, p.14]"

This is utterly agnostic with regards to obstacles.  Whether or not you fly over an obstacle does not effect fully executing.  Debris Clouds will still be important, since they provide a stress preventing you from taking an Evade action, but Asteroids don't seem to impact the ship ability.

So that there is no confusion (as I had at first) about the asteroids not causing stress part:

While a ship executes a maneuver, if it moves through or overlaps an obstacle, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle:

Asteroid: After executing the maneuver, it rolls one attack die. On a result, the ship suffers one damage; on a result, it suffers one damage. Then the ship skips its Perform Action step this round.

Debris Cloud: After the Check Difficulty step, the ship gains one stress token. After executing the maneuver, it rolls one attack die. On a result, the ship suffers one damage.

 

Asteroids don't cause stress (Hmm. This is going to make fighting swarms a little more problematic.) and while they require the "Perform Action" step to be skipped, the TIE Defender's ability takes place before that step. A good find. :)

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I believe Full Throttle also works with Debris Clouds. Here are the steps for completing a manuever:

1. Do the maneuver

2. Check Pilot Stress

3. Debris Cloud Stress

To me, the Defender's Full Throttle triggers immediately after step 1, but before step 2 (and of course step 3). This means that a Defender could, in my understanding, move through a Debris Cloud and still gain the Evade, and only afterwards would gain the stress.

For a bonus weird rule interaction, I think this also helps Defender's with a Damaged Engine. If a Defender were to do a 3-hard with a Damaged Engine, they would get their evade before checking for the difficulty of the maneuver, and only then would gain the stress.

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17 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

I believe Full Throttle also works with Debris Clouds. Here are the steps for completing a manuever:

1. Do the maneuver

2. Check Pilot Stress

3. Debris Cloud Stress

To me, the Defender's Full Throttle triggers immediately after step 1, but before step 2 (and of course step 3). This means that a Defender could, in my understanding, move through a Debris Cloud and still gain the Evade, and only afterwards would gain the stress.

For a bonus weird rule interaction, I think this also helps Defender's with a Damaged Engine. If a Defender were to do a 3-hard with a Damaged Engine, they would get their evade before checking for the difficulty of the maneuver, and only then would gain the stress.

No.

It triggers after it fully executed a manouver. 

"2. Execute Maneuver: Resolve the following substeps in order:

a. Move Ship: Slide the maneuver template between the front guides of the ship’s base so that it is flush against the base. Then pick up the ship and place it at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the base into the opposite end of the template.

b. Check Pilot Stress: If the maneuver is red, assign one stress token to the ship; if the maneuver is green, remove one stress token from the ship.

c. Clean Up: Return the maneuver template to the pile of maneuver templates. Place the revealed dial outside the play area next to the ship’s Ship card."- page 3 of the rules reference.

" Debris Cloud†: After the “Check Pilot Stress” step, the ship receives one stress token. After the “Perform Action” step, it rolls one attack die. On a ?result, the ship suffers one critical damage. The ship can still perform attacks." - page 13 of the rules reference.

Full throttle triggers long after the check pilot stress step.

Dont just randomly guess how something works without even trying to look it up in the rules. 

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17 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

I believe Full Throttle also works with Debris Clouds. Here are the steps for completing a manuever:

1. Do the maneuver

2. Check Pilot Stress

3. Debris Cloud Stress

To me, the Defender's Full Throttle triggers immediately after step 1, but before step 2 (and of course step 3). This means that a Defender could, in my understanding, move through a Debris Cloud and still gain the Evade, and only afterwards would gain the stress.

For a bonus weird rule interaction, I think this also helps Defender's with a Damaged Engine. If a Defender were to do a 3-hard with a Damaged Engine, they would get their evade before checking for the difficulty of the maneuver, and only then would gain the stress.

I think that's entirely wrong.

There are three steps to a ship's activation.

  1. Reveal Dial.
  2. Execute Maneuver.
  3. Perform action.

Full Throttle will happen after 2 and before 3--that is, after executing a maneuver.

Step 2: Execute Maneuver has two substeps: 1} Maneuver Ship 2} Check Difficulty.

Here's the rule for Debris Clouds: "After the Check Difficulty step, the ship gains one stress token. After executing the maneuver, it rolls one attack die. On a [crit] result, the ship suffers one [crit] damage."  So based on the wording of Debris Clouds, the stress comes in at the "Check Difficulty" step, which the Debris rule clearly places before the "after executing" trigger, where the attack die is rolled.  From this, it's pretty clear that Full Throttle and the attack die happen at the same time, both after the stress from the Debris cloud happens.

It's worth noting that it's very good in general for the Defender to work this way.  Otherwise, a Defender which begins a turn stressed and dialed in a 3-4-5 straight blue move wouldn't be able to clear their stress before the Full Throttle trigger opportunity.

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8 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I think that's entirely wrong.

There are three steps to a ship's activation.

  1. Reveal Dial.
  2. Execute Maneuver.
  3. Perform action.

Full Throttle will happen after 2 and before 3--that is, after executing a maneuver.

Step 2: Execute Maneuver has two substeps: 1} Maneuver Ship 2} Check Difficulty.

Here's the rule for Debris Clouds: "After the Check Difficulty step, the ship gains one stress token. After executing the maneuver, it rolls one attack die. On a [crit] result, the ship suffers one [crit] damage."  So based on the wording of Debris Clouds, the stress comes in at the "Check Difficulty" step, which the Debris rule clearly places before the "after executing" trigger, where the attack die is rolled.  From this, it's pretty clear that Full Throttle and the attack die happen at the same time, both after the stress from the Debris cloud happens.

It's worth noting that it's very good in general for the Defender to work this way.  Otherwise, a Defender which begins a turn stressed and dialed in a 3-4-5 straight blue move wouldn't be able to clear their stress before the Full Throttle trigger opportunity.

Aww, excellent. This was a time where the basic rules were more clear than the RR. I was thinking the fully execute happened immediately, but I understand now that the expression really means: After you have fully completed the Execute manuever step, if you did not overlap another ship, you may perform this free action. Got it! Thanks for the clarification.

 

10 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Dont just randomly guess how something works without even trying to look it up in the rules. 

Wow. Are you always so nice to other people? I read the RR and made a mistake, which is why I made my post to ask the community to help me understand if my reading of the rule was correct. Thanks for the generosity in understanding!

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1 minute ago, SirCormac said:

Wow. Are you always so nice to other people? I read the RR and made a mistake, which is why I made my post to ask the community to help me understand if my reading of the rule was correct. Thanks for the generosity in understanding!

No you posted in someone else's thread stating false information. You never asked "does it work like this?"

You just said you thought it did. You put false information in a thread where people might take it as fact. That bothers me. You need to be very clear that your are just guessing without looking anything up so people don't mistake your post as an anwser instead of a question.

I am sorry I offended you, I may have been to harsh. 

 

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34 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

Remember what assuming does.

... So you're saying you looked it up and still managed to post a blatantly incorrect statement as if it were fact in a rules question thread?

I think you're better served by Icelom's assumption, then.

If it helps, showing your work as others have done in this thread (and other rules threads) prevents people from assuming you're making things up (instead of just being egregiously wrong).

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1 hour ago, SirCormac said:

Aww, excellent. This was a time where the basic rules were more clear than the RR. I was thinking the fully execute happened immediately, but I understand now that the expression really means: After you have fully completed the Execute manuever step, if you did not overlap another ship, you may perform this free action. Got it! Thanks for the clarification.

No, this was all from the rules reference.  With a little RR-fu, it isn't an issue.

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