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Okapi

TIE Aggressor in 2.0

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In my opinion Tie Aggressors are only as good as the turrets they can use.

In first edition they were really only be used as TLT carriers. In the way things are working out right now in 2.0 if you are loading a bunch of upgrades on a ship then you might be building a squad wrong which is how this ship trends to become, overloaded.

Bombers are really good right now because you can put Brockets on them and call it a day. Once you put a turret on an Aggressor its tempting to then put Veteran Turret Gunner on them and then upgrade to a named one and so on. If you're putting missiles on them, bombers do it better for cheaper and turrets aren't amazing right now.

Some options if you want to play them anyways.

Sienar Specialist and Ion turret at 36 points. That's it. Annoying for your opponent to ignore yet cheap enough that if they focus on that over other things it might benefit your list.

Onyx Squadron Scout? Ion turret and Debris Gambit at 40 points. Same damage output but can survive much longer and be more annoying with the white evade off of a barrel roll.

Double Edge with either one missile or turret, not both. If you use missiles, named Bombers have better abilities for only 1-3 points more with higher I. Using only a turrent means you have it locked in the front arc to make the most of the ability yet at I2 means it is much harder to guarantee your opponent is in arc for your double tap.

Lieutenant Kestal is seen as an Ace or Force user killer but s/he's got problems doing that. If you just put a turret on them then they will have un-modded shots with no reposition actions. If you have someone coordinating actions to him your best options would be either Sai with Title for action efficiency or a Black Squadron Tie with Squad Leader for its low, low cost. Having just a turret and Fifth Brother is pretty okay giving you a soft mod for the shot but you have no repositional options, the crit is useless on Ion cannon turret, and you're starting to get expensive. Missiles of any kind is a no go with them since you need to be taking the focus action for the ability. Barrage Rockets and Proton Rockets? No. Aces and Force users will never let themselves be in your bulls-eye arc. 

We'll just have to wait for a better turret to come out in later waves before they are anything more than decent.

Thoughts?

Edited by delrustymar
Added "be"

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I mean, you're not wrong (other than kestal's ability being good enough to justify her existence as another "bomber")

I also find it absolutely baffling that the base Aggressor is TWO MORE POINTS than the base bomber...what in the unholy ****?

It's a strictly inferior platform, unless you just can't live without that one shield, with a worse dial (only has 1 kturn, compared to 2) and less health so wtf?

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I haven't got my conversion kit, but I wanted to try this:

4X

Onyx Squadron Scout (32)
Debris Gambit (2)
Dorsal Turret (4)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Hotshot Gunner (7)

Total: 50

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Barrel Roll to white evade thanks to Debris Gambit & Hotshot Gunners, to clear out enemy Focus tokens.

Edited by Force Majeure

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1 hour ago, delrustymar said:

Double Edge with either one missile or turret, not both. If you use missiles, named Bombers have better abilities for only 1-3 points more with higher I. Using only a turrent means you have it locked in the front arc to make the most of the ability yet at I2 means it is much harder to guarantee your opponent is in arc for your double tap.

This is not bad:

(33) "Double Edge"
(7) Hotshot Gunner
(5) Cluster Missiles
Points 45

Total points: 45

You get to double shoot and strip a token.

Edited by heychadwick

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47 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

This is not bad:

(33) "Double Edge"
(7) Hotshot Gunner
(5) Cluster Missiles
Points 45

Total points: 45

You get to double shoot and strip a token.

you need a turret

hotshot is turret only

because **** primary arcs, ARCs, and everything else I guess

 

so you could just do a turret and use DE's ability, but he's still an I 2 hotshot which is FAR less likely to accomplish anything because the enemy can shoot first and probably spend before you fire

Edited by ficklegreendice

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16 hours ago, Icelom said:

After trying the y-wing with an ion turret, I am anxious to try the tie aggressor with one.

Ion turrets are really good in second edition.

How so? Because second edition is weaker? Because Ion Weapons most certainly aren’t better. You need 2 hits to Ion a small base ship. 

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

I mean, you're not wrong (other than kestal's ability being good enough to justify her existence as another "bomber")

I also find it absolutely baffling that the base Aggressor is TWO MORE POINTS than the base bomber...what in the unholy ****?

It's a strictly inferior platform, unless you just can't live without that one shield, with a worse dial (only has 1 kturn, compared to 2) and less health so wtf?

 

Are you saying that you think Kestal's ability is good enough to think of her as a bomber?

And I totally agree with you that the differences between the it and the tie bomber do not justify Aggressors being more points then bombers.  Worse dial, worse actions, no ship ability, less slots, less health, yet have the same primary and agility values, and currently very limited pilot selection with pilot abilities that suffer from the inferior platform and available upgrades. In future price adjustments they really should have the aggressors less than or equal to the bombers.

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1 hour ago, DodgingArcs said:

How so? Because second edition is weaker? Because Ion Weapons most certainly aren’t better. You need 2 hits to Ion a small base ship. 

Range one bonus, less defense mods, not every ship and there dog can easily reposition out of range.

You get your 4 attack dice ion shot in soontir it's possible you still hit him even if he has focus+evade.

The range bonus alone is worth the change to how the effect is applied. 

Don't forget the ioned ship can only focus next turn.... You will have 100% knowledge of its location as it can't boost or barrel roll away.

Ion turrets, and to a lesser extent cannons are awesome in second addition.

 

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2 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

I haven't got my conversion kit, but I wanted to try this:

4X

Onyx Squadron Scout (32)
Debris Gambit (2)
Dorsal Turret (4)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Hotshot Gunner (7)

Total: 50

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Barrel Roll to white evade thanks to Debris Gambit & Hotshot Gunners, to clear out enemy Focus tokens.

4, un-modded two dice attacks aren't going to cut the mustard. If you were to shoot an X-wing with all four ships at range 2 and he uses his focus for defense. The expected total damage from all 4 shots is 1.3. If he doesn't have a focus for defense it's only expected damage of 2. If you're shooting at a defender that yolo's right at you, 0.25. These are just averages and hypothetical situations but they add in squad building.

Hotshot Gunner won't help very much in the damage race all that much since your output is so so low. And I think it's a waste of 28 points since very few ships will be able to have more than focus token (which will be more prevalent than calculate) and it has no effect on Force, Evade, etc. Since you'll want to take advantage of clearing off those focus and calculated tokens you'll be shooting at the same target that already has no tokens with your other aggressors meaning 3 of your Hotshots won't be doing anything but looking pretty. It's also limited to the turret shot so only range 1-2. Plus it's super expensive. This card is far from what Hotshot Co-pilot used to be in 1.0

If you want to run 4 aggressors I would run Onyx with Ion, Veteran Turret Gunner, and either debris gambit(more defensive) or trick shot(more offensive and easier to proc with the turrets).  Both requires you to be good at flying around in the rocks in slightly different ways. Now you have flexibility of having your arcs anywhere as long at you have either both pointed together at 1 target or separated shooting at two different ones. It'll be pretty decent but requires you to get multiple double taps off to win the damage race. With the extra points throw on 1-2 hull upgrades

Alternatively you could run 5 aggressors. Onyx, Ion, and preferred choice of Debris Gambit or Trickshot + 1 hull upgrade. Or if you want to go super simple 5 Seinar specialist with Ion and give 4 of them Hull upgrade.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

yessir, provided the meta doesn't consist entirely of like 8+ health ships with no defensive mods

Yeah I mean you could totally throw Brockets on them and fly them with Jonus and other brocket bombers and pretend it's just another one of the guys.

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21 minutes ago, Polaritie said:

Double Edge continues to be a trap.

At least the expensive generic has a talent slot this time though.

Yup Double Edge is straight up bad.  I'd pay at most 1 point over the Sienar for him, but even then only if I had an EPT I needed and I couldn't afford the Onyx.  Hopefully the whole chassis sees a price drop and we get some interesting turrets and gunners for them, until then they are just more expensive yet inferior bombers.

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6 hours ago, Icelom said:

Range one bonus, less defense mods, not every ship and there dog can easily reposition out of range.

You get your 4 attack dice ion shot in soontir it's possible you still hit him even if he has focus+evade.

The range bonus alone is worth the change to how the effect is applied. 

Don't forget the ioned ship can only focus next turn.... You will have 100% knowledge of its location as it can't boost or barrel roll away.

Ion turrets, and to a lesser extent cannons are awesome in second addition.

 

That’s fair. The Ion effect is certainly considerably stronger even if ionisation isn’t as easy. 

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12 hours ago, Polaritie said:

Double Edge continues to be a trap.

At least the expensive generic has a talent slot this time though.

Why is he a trap?

He is 43 pts with Dorsal and Barrage Rockets.  That is 1 pt cheaper than a Gray Y-wing with Dorsal Turret and Vet Gunner.

What about Double Edge with Hotshot Gunner and Dorsal Turret? Fire with Dorsal and if he misses you fire main guns? Cheap and strips tokens.  Especially good at R1, though getting shot at R1.

You can also cheap out and just get a Turret on him.

Edited by heychadwick

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20 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

if you juke on kestal, you don't get her ability

Why is it so? I am not sure Kestal pilot ability kicks in before Juke, maybe they kick in at the same time?

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Kestal doesnt strip any tokens though so she still has use even if shes the last to shoot on your team.

Your other ships could have not taken the tokens (focus token, no focus results so they still have it) and when she attacks they rolled the right dice to get to use the token.
Or she could simply be the only one that can attack, due to turret stuff.

She's less amazing when she isnt first, but not enough to say shes not worth it.

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Come to think of it, Kestal has decent synergy with Krennic. Maybe something like this?

Lieutenant Kestal (49)

  • Ion Cannon Turret
  • Hotshot Gunner

Lieutentant Sai (53)

  • ST-321
  • Director Krennic

Sai takes a coordinate action, hands out a focus, gets his own focus and a lock. With Optimized Prototype on Kestal, she can spend any focus result on removing a shield, and her focus token on removing any focus and/or blank my opponent might roll. Hotshot Gunner removes any focus they might have. Finally, Sai fires at the target with a fully modded three dice primary.

Not sure about wingmen, but Vessery seems decent, as do 2 Barrage Bombers and an Academy TIE (blocker and a target for Sai's coordinate). Talent for Kestal to taste (I'm thinking Predator or Trick Shot if ace, Ruthless if Bombers/Fighter).

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52 minutes ago, Okapi said:

Come to think of it, Kestal has decent synergy with Krennic. Maybe something like this?

Lieutenant Kestal (49)

  • Ion Cannon Turret
  • Hotshot Gunner

Lieutentant Sai (53)

  • ST-321
  • Director Krennic

Sai takes a coordinate action, hands out a focus, gets his own focus and a lock. With Optimized Prototype on Kestal, she can spend any focus result on removing a shield, and her focus token on removing any focus and/or blank my opponent might roll. Hotshot Gunner removes any focus they might have. Finally, Sai fires at the target with a fully modded three dice primary.

Not sure about wingmen, but Vessery seems decent, as do 2 Barrage Bombers and an Academy TIE (blocker and a target for Sai's coordinate). Talent for Kestal to taste (I'm thinking Predator or Trick Shot if ace, Ruthless if Bombers/Fighter).

I dunno man, that's a lot of setup. Optomised prototype only works in primary arc attacks too. 

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