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How refreshing is it to not have to choose Push the Limit on Soontir Fel?

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I feel like Soontir can be slotted in sans upgrades pretty easily. That said, either a bullseye/front arc improvement or Trick Shot are the talents to take.

Afterburners seems like it might be useful to get the bullseye on the rare turns that you do a koiogran, but I don't think I like spending that much on him.

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10 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Most ships. Phantoms are manditory Juke, and Defenders nearly so.

I’d go so far as to say that a Phantom without Juke is doing it wrong 100% of the time.

I disagree, while juke is very good on phantoms it's not mandatory to have the ship. Comparatively in 1.0 VI was literally the only upgrade whisper could take.

I think you are confusing mandatory with strong. Juke is a strong upgrade choice but the ship can still do very well with other choices. While in first edition if you did not take VI you just died. Currently whisper in second edition is still good with outmaneuver , or crack shot, or predator, or elusiveness (off the top of my head). In many situations, those upgrades will outperform juke.

This does not mean that Juke might not be better in most of the time, what it means is we have options in second edition instead of having to bolt an upgrade to a ship to make it even have a chance. 

For example you might be running an ion turret or ion cannon on another one of your ships, this would drop the value of juke as it would force your opponent into having a focus every turn, however taking outmaneuver would be much stronger in this list as your odds of getting behind the enemy ships goes way up.

Again strong upgrade /= mandaory upgrade. 

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I’m not a big fan of the bullseye EPTs on him, seems like putting all your eggs in one basket, and getting your target in the bullseye may be easy in isolation but doing it without landing yourself in your enemies crosshairs is another matter.  I am a fan of outmanoeuvre.  Perhaps I’m a wuss?

I very much fancy giving Daredevil a try too.  As others have said, a single reposition with his own ability providing the focus is often enough, so taking the stress to turn instead of bank on your boost could be worth it.

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Just now, Darth evil said:

i have found he sucks badly now, something blows it's nose his way and he falls apart. Getting that focus is becoming a p.i.t.a, and don't get me started on the lack of mods

Maybe if you got gud at list building and flying Soontir, you would find that hes quite operational.

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13 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

Maybe if you got gud at list building and flying Soontir, you would find that hes quite operational.

i flew Soontir in 90% if lists i played for 3 years before i stopped playing last year, i don't need anyone to tell me how to fly him or what he is capable off. I can look at Wedge who costs the same and has 75% of the same actions but double the health and a much easier ability to triggerand  be quite confident in my statement that he sucks

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2 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

i flew Soontir in 90% if lists i played for 3 years before i stopped playing last year, i don't need anyone to tell me how to fly him or what he is capable off. I can look at Wedge who costs the same and has 75% of the same actions but double the health and a much easier ability to triggerand  be quite confident in my statement that he sucks

I hate when people say "git gud," even in jest, so I feel for you. However, I must point out that Second Edition has by and large done away with token stacking, which is what kept Soontir alive in First Edition. Now, he doesn't have the same capacity for token stacking, but his ability to reposition is light years better than many of the other ships. He certainly can crumple when sneezed at, but he can also dodge a lot of hate if flown conservatively. Overall, if he does indeed "suck," well, it's better for the game, in my opinion. To me, he doth not suck.

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I'm enjoying not having Lone Wolf stapled to Dash anymore. Of course, there are many auto-includes now, like Juke on Defenders and Phantoms, but it's of a much lower calibre of necessity.

1 hour ago, Parakitor said:

I hate when people say "git gud," even in jest, so I feel for you. However, I must point out that Second Edition has by and large done away with token stacking, which is what kept Soontir alive in First Edition. Now, he doesn't have the same capacity for token stacking, but his ability to reposition is light years better than many of the other ships. He certainly can crumple when sneezed at, but he can also dodge a lot of hate if flown conservatively. Overall, if he does indeed "suck," well, it's better for the game, in my opinion. To me, he doth not suck.

Soontir came out at the exact same time as the Falcon - the ship that began the token (and tokenesque ability) stacking war. In 1st edition PWTs had to be stacked against. Now Soontir can dodge them literally forever. I've beaten a full health Asajj to death with a 1 hull Carnor in 1st edition, and Soontir is much better than 1st edition Carnor - cheaper, too.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Until we get some mods that the interceptors can make use of I think Fel is on the weaker side.  He cannot dodge at R3 and he has nothing to keep him alive at that range.  He's just an expensive TIE fighter at that range, only he doesn't have Iden to soak incoming fire.

Why on earth is Soontir getting shot at?! I swear, everybody who played the BS of fat turrets has completely forgot the art of flanking. You can fit 5 TIEs in with Soontir (1 howl + 2 aces, or howl + Iden), and wham, suddenly Soontir isn't worth shooting at R3 obstructed. What's more, he's only a slightly more expensive TIE at 12 more points than Howl, and gains 1 attack and Initiative 6.

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I love Fel.  If the opponent ignores him to shoot other things he'll wreck them in later rounds.  If they focus on him, they get wrecked by everyone else.  My favorite talent for him is Outmaneuver, but the one that I use in lists most often is Swarm Tactics.  This lets another Squint fire at In6, ensuring 6-8 dice fired before their target in most cases.  I've toyed with daisy chaining that as well to four ships (12-16 dice at In6).  It's not great for Fel as an individual, but it's a massive boon to the squad as a whole.

 

I'm also still confused about folks saying he has no good upgrades available.  They're all great and put him at the same equivalent point cost as 1.0 (Predator and Stealth Device bring him to 62 points or 31 in 1.0 or add Afterburners or Shields for a total 70 pts or 35 pts in 1.0).  Compare that level of maneuverability, hitting power and survivability to Vader who starts at 70 pts.  Soontir has SO many options in 2.0 and all of them can work.  Obviously, if you want him to stick around longer, give him some defensive upgrades.  If you want him to hit harder, give him some offensive upgrades.  I love it!  I have so many versions of this little bastard!  Bwahahaha!

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11 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Until we get some mods that the interceptors can make use of I think Fel is on the weaker side.  He cannot dodge at R3 and he has nothing to keep him alive at that range.  He's just an expensive TIE fighter at that range, only he doesn't have Iden to soak incoming fire.

He's the only I6 in the game that can double repo in any order. I've flown against him a lot in 2.0 and finally just had to bludgeon him into submission with fat Han. I think people are getting too hung up on the pilot ability and aren't seeing the arc locked meta against the last real I6 double repo dodger.

 

He's a very legit pilot, but the approach of 1.0 Soontir will not fair well in 2.0.

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Agree fully @MasterShake2. He flies differently, but if flown well is the most difficulty to pin down ship in the game. Not always being stressed is a huge boon too.

Naked Soontir is a very solid choice of 52 points, but not one you can get sloppy with. But fly it against someone who knows what they are doing and it is a thing of beauty.

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The last couple of comments brings me to another thing I like about Soontir the Second:

Half points for half health.

At three health basic, he's the very definition of a glass cannon.  It only takes two points of damage (three if you stack Hull & Shield Upgrade on him) for him to give up half points.

That means that where previously where Soontir might want to have limped away with a point or two of health left, now he might well need to continue engaging the enemy to win the game.

As an example, I was playing my Hutt Cartel against Soontir, Rexler and Wampa at the weekend.  I'd lost a Scyk and a Kihraxz, but Rex and Soontir were both at half health.  Where previously I was well on my way to a 0-100 loss, in this game I was marginally ahead on points, so the Imp player couldn't run and hide, they had to keep fighting.

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Soontir (an exponentially worse on every other Interceptor) is great while you can dodge arcs, but the moment your opponent gets you in their arc, you have very little to survive with, I've ran interceptors since wave 4, and theres always been a couple turns every game where my opponent got a shot at me and I had to token up to NOT DIE, and now in 2.0 I cant token up so now interceptors are going to die every game as they lost their only way of not dieing when my opponent can turn/rotate arc not to mention only soontir has the PS to actually arcdodge and his new ability forces him to be ultra aggressive

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