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EvdK69

Which Millennium Falcon may be used?

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With the release of the 2nd edition the Rebel Alliance and the Resistance are separated. Could anyone confirm that the Millennium Falcon from the “Heroes of the Resistance” expansion may not be used in a Rebel Alliance squad. 

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I don't think anyone knows yet.  Ultimately I think it will come down to what the tournament rules for X-Wing second edition says.  If they read like before, the the same ship model may still cross factions such as the BTL-A4 Y-Wing or the TIE/ln Fighter, but it's possible players may not be able to exchange similar models that use different ship names such as a "Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter" and a "Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter".  Until those rules are released and the resistance content is made more public, it will be hard to say what the exact rules are regarding cross faction ship models.

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You clearly have to use the correct cards per the faction. As to models, it shouldn't matter. People freely paint their ships without issue (see this years worlds winner). Exactly how would a different radar dish matter then?

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  • Letter of the law:  You must use the correct model (modified vs customized).
  • Reasonable gameplay:  You can use either, as long as it's clear what is what.

Technically, there's no rules, since the only Tourney ruleset we have only governs First Edition.  But if we look at that set, we see that according to the letter of the law, you must use a miniature that is structurally unmodified (paint is ok) so as not to cause confusion, that matches the ship you're flying.  When it came to Rebel v. Resistance Falcons, it was irrelevant, because both were simply YT-1300 Freighters.

Now, however, you have both Customized and Modified YT-1300 Light Freighters... and I wouldn't be surprised if the Resistance Falcon were re-titled as Salvaged YT-1300 Freighter, or something similar.  There could be three unique falcon models for three unique factions.  Do I think anyone is going to care which model you use, as long as it's clear what your intent is?  Nope!

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10 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

There could be three unique falcon models for three unique factions.  Do I think anyone is going to care which model you use, as long as it's clear what your intent is?  Nope!

This.

The underlying rule is that a TO has the right to disallow any conversion/paintjob/standin/whatever where he or she feels there could be any confusion for your opponent what ship that model represents.

Since there is no possibility of a scum, resistance and rebel alliance falcon being options for the same squad - since they're three different, non-interchangeable factions - it's no different to throwing a Sabine's TIE into a galactic empire squad. It's a weird choice, and it's not regulation, but there's no logical question what it is.

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Yup. In fact, some uses of the "wrong model" might be very fluffy.

 

For example a Scum YT-1300, with Unkar Plutt as crew, using the Resistance Falcon model:

"See, I TOLD you it was mine!" ?

 

Or a Rebel YT-1300, with Resistance Falcon model, and appropriate "Jakku-era" characters in the rest of your force (Norra Wexley, Thane Kyrell). 

Edited by Ironlord

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@All, thanks for the replies. The way I understanding it is: No it is not allowed, however, it may be allowed under reasonable gameplay. In fact, the FO tie fighter may be used as Tie/ln fighter under the same reasonable gameplay

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1 hour ago, EvdK69 said:

@All, thanks for the replies. The way I understanding it is: No it is not allowed, however, it may be allowed under reasonable gameplay. In fact, the FO tie fighter may be used as Tie/ln fighter under the same reasonable gameplay

You'd have to get the okay from the TO (and they are justified in saying no if they choose to since it's a different ship) but since, again, you can't have TIE/fo and TIE/ln in the same squad anymore, if you can't find your seventh TIE/ln model on the day, I doubt many people would have a problem with it.

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Granted this is from the 1st ed tournament rules, but until we have second ed rules, there is no reason to think FFG will change their stance on this:

"Multiple Faction Ships:
All pilot cards and ship tokens in a player’s squad must belong to the same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, he or she may use any version of that ship’s model and dial in his or her squad. Multiple Ship Example: Scott is fielding a Scum & Villainy squad consisting of four Z-95 Headhunters and one Firespray. His Firespray model and dial are from the Imperial Firespray expansion, two of his Z-95 Headhunter models and dials are from the Rebel Z-95 expansion, and the final two of his Z-95 Headhunter models and dials are from the Scum & Villainy Most Wanted expansion. However, all of his pilot cards and ship tokens are from the Scum & Villainy faction."

By that rule, yes you can use any YT-1300 variant in your squad so long as it is correctly identified with the appropriate ship card.  

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By those rules you can use a Scum Z-95-AF4 and a Rebel Z-95-AF4, or an Imperial TIE/ln Fighter and a Rebel TIE/ln Fighter since those are the same ship with just different paint jobs.  It remains to be seen if you can use a Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter and a Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter because those are technically not the same ship and would fall more closely under using a TIE/fo Fighter in place of a TIE/ln Fighter.  In a casual game, it is always up to your opponent and I'd like to think most people would be fine with it, but in a tournament it will come down to what ever rules FFG decides to impose and how stringently the TO wishes to follow those rules.

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1 hour ago, xbeaker said:

Granted this is from the 1st ed tournament rules, but until we have second ed rules, there is no reason to think FFG will change their stance on this:

"Multiple Faction Ships:
All pilot cards and ship tokens in a player’s squad must belong to the same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, he or she may use any version of that ship’s model and dial in his or her squad. Multiple Ship Example: Scott is fielding a Scum & Villainy squad consisting of four Z-95 Headhunters and one Firespray. His Firespray model and dial are from the Imperial Firespray expansion, two of his Z-95 Headhunter models and dials are from the Rebel Z-95 expansion, and the final two of his Z-95 Headhunter models and dials are from the Scum & Villainy Most Wanted expansion. However, all of his pilot cards and ship tokens are from the Scum & Villainy faction."

By that rule, yes you can use any YT-1300 variant in your squad so long as it is correctly identified with the appropriate ship card.  

1: That;'s a 1e rule, the equivalent document has yet to be released for 2e.

2: RAW, the two YTs are not the same ship.  One is a Modified YT1300, the other is a Customised YT1300, and they have different dials.

I don't think there should ever be a problem with it, but by 1e RAW you can't do it any more than you could use a Y Wing as an A Wing because they have similar names.

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56 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

1: That;'s a 1e rule, the equivalent document has yet to be released for 2e.

2: RAW, the two YTs are not the same ship.  One is a Modified YT1300, the other is a Customised YT1300, and they have different dials.

I don't think there should ever be a problem with it, but by 1e RAW you can't do it any more than you could use a Y Wing as an A Wing because they have similar names.

1: yes, but as there is no 2e, the 1e is the only official document that has any reference.  The game has changed, but no so much that you can't infer from the past generation.  Otherwise you also have to say that you can't paint ships as there is no rule stating that you can yet.  

2: We are not discussing Lando's Falcon.  We are discussing the Resistance Falcon.  They do have the same dial, or they did in 1st ed.  Until we see evidence against it, I think it is safe to assume they will in 2e.  The RAW very clearly says you CAN use either model, but you could not sub a Y for an A.  

I think your example of a Y-wing to an A-wing is a little extreme.  That is 2 ships from the same faction that are vastly different.  It clearly falls under rule disallowing ships which may confuse the opponent.  Joshmoe554's example of using a TIE/fo n place of a TIE/ln is much more on point.  Though I wouldn't be surprised if FFG allows the use of those interchangeably as FO ships can no longer be in the same squad as Imperial ships, and therefore would prevent any confusion.  Not saying they will, just that it wouldn't blow my mind if they do.  It will also be a shame for all the people who modded their TIE/lns to look like the mining guild TIEs lol

While you are not modifying the ships, the pertinent rule is "They cannot modify a ship model in any way that would create confusion about which ship the model represents." Calling Y-wing model an A-wing would clearly cause confusion.  Calling a YT-1300 a YT-1300 would cause no confusion as the models are shaped exactly the same, and there is only 1 variant available to each faction.  Even if you were using Lando's.  I mean, they are all literally the same ship. :) The key here is that you and your opponent should be able to identify the ships on the table at a glance.  

In the end though, I agree.  I don't think there should be a problem with it.  And if there is, it should be spelled out explicitly in the 2e tournament regs.  For local games, who cares? sub an X-wing in for a Z-95, use a blank base, whatever as long as your opponent is cool with it.  And if your opponent has a problem with you using the Resistance Falcon in place of the Rebel Falcon in a casual game.. find a new opponent!  

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I mean, unless you have a insanely strict TO, I can't see there being an issue using a different Falcon model over another as long as the pilot cards and cardboard are for the correct faction (dials too if the same ship has different dials for different factions).

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48 minutes ago, Kehl_Aecea said:

I mean, unless you have a insanely strict TO, I can't see there being an issue using a different Falcon model over another as long as the pilot cards and cardboard are for the correct faction (dials too if the same ship has different dials for different factions).

The only exception I could see to this, would be if you tried to use a Rebel or Resistance Falcon model as a Scum Falcon, down to trying to proxy the escape craft with something.

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The only issue I see is that those two aren't designed to dock the Escape Craft. Just using them, I would see as OK - it's trying to use them with the Escape Craft docked, that is problematic.

 

I wouldn't object to them being used outside of this "docked escape craft" issue.

 

YT-1300s vary a lot in appearance. And the Falcon's appearance isn't all that tied to faction (it's looked Resistance-ey when it was owned by Plutt, and when it was owned by Han late in the Galactic Civil War), and Rebels-ey before Han actually joined the Rebellion).

 

3 different models, but all represent the same actual ship.

Using the "Lando's Falcon" model in a Rebel or Resistance list, is a bit less fluffy - but considering how often the ship was modified, it wouldn't bother me too much. Especially if it's only an untitled "Outer Rim Smuggler" or "Resistance Sympathiser" that's being represented. 

 

Edited by Ironlord

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2 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

The only exception I could see to this, would be if you tried to use a Rebel or Resistance Falcon model as a Scum Falcon, down to trying to proxy the escape craft with something.

OH! Yeah, that I FULLY agree with. I feel that as long as you aren't using the escape craft with the Falcon, the actual YT-1300 model you use shouldn't matter.

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Necroing this to mention the early edition of the tournament rules addresses this:

All ship cards and ship bases in a player’s squad must belong to the same faction. If a player’s ship has different versions in more than one faction, the player may use any version of the miniature and dial that match the full ship name when assembling a squad.

We have reason to believe the various YT-1300s all have different ship names (Scum: Customized, Rebel: Modified, Resistance: Scavenged), though the Resistance version is based on preview art. So if I want to run a Rebel falcon in a tournament it looks like I'll need to break down and finally buy one of the original Falcon boxes.

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4 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

We have reason to believe the various YT-1300s all have different ship names (Scum: Customized, Rebel: Modified, Resistance: Scavenged), though the Resistance version is based on preview art. So if I want to run a Rebel falcon in a tournament it looks like I'll need to break down and finally buy one of the original Falcon boxes.

Well, you'll almost certainly need it for the dial, but I'm still not sure about the miniature itself. I'd think all three Falcons would fall under the umbrella of ship modifications having to resemble the proper ship. Each miniature does have subtle differences, but someone could easily have modeled one to look similar to another completely on accident, but there's nothing else in your faction that you could confuse it for (and someone mixing up the stats between the various Falcons is going to happen just by the very nature of how similar they are, even if they are being used in their proper factions).

Whether you're allowed to have the Escape Craft attached to a Lando's Millennium Falcon in another faction (or even its own if you don't have one in your list) would be much more ambiguous. Technically it's an entirely different ship, but while attached it's not much different than any other modification you might have made to your miniature (and I know some people did some similar things to their YT-1300s before the design in Solo was even on the horizon).

In other words, I think we definitely still need some clarification on this.

Edit: To clarify, they are definitely different ships with different full names, now. The question is how that will be enforced for this particular ship. Will interchanging the miniatures be officially allowed? Will it be disallowed? Will it be up to whoever is running an event but otherwise not stated?

Edited by Jokubas

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I think, like Jokubas stated, Any yt1300 model should be fine under the modified model rule. ultimately, it would be up to the TO of whatever event you'd want to do that at. So check with them before to be safe.   

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I guess a similar question could be asked of other extremely similar ships, like the TIE/ln compared to the TIE/fo. Or perhaps in the future with slightly more divergent ships like the RZ-2 A-Wing compared to the RZ-1 (and there's reason to expect more of those in the prequel factions). The modified model rule theoretically covers some of these cases, but a direct answer about how even stock models are considered in certain situations would be nice.

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7 minutes ago, Jokubas said:

I guess a similar question could be asked of other extremely similar ships, like the TIE/ln compared to the TIE/fo. Or perhaps in the future with slightly more divergent ships like the RZ-2 A-Wing compared to the RZ-1 (and there's reason to expect more of those in the prequel factions). The modified model rule theoretically covers some of these cases, but a direct answer about how even stock models are considered in certain situations would be nice.

If i am TO'ing i would have 0 problem with it, its really no different then a modded or painted. as long as you are not trying to confuse your opponent. Its a falcon, you are playing rebel its a rebel falcon there is only one of those so no issue.

 

 

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On 9/17/2018 at 2:52 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

... and I wouldn't be surprised if the Resistance Falcon were re-titled as Salvaged YT-1300 Freighter, or something similar.  There could be three unique falcon models for three unique factions.  Do I think anyone is going to care which model you use, as long as it's clear what your intent is?  Nope!

I totally called it. ;)

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