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List of Conversion Kit annoyances

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38 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

Has anyone else noticed that the scum kit has a discrepancy in Tansarii Point Veteran ship tokens and pilot cards?

4 dials, 4 pilot cards. 2 ship tokens...

It wouldn't be the only case of "more dials than generics".  The Galactic Empire kit has 3 dials but only 2 Alpha and 2 Saber tokens. So you can have 2 Alpha and 1 Saber, or 2 Saber and 1 Alpha, but you can't have 3 the same.


"More generic pilot cards than generic tokens" is a bit of an odd decision though.

Edited by Ironlord

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1 hour ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

My conversion kit had those cards in an extra bag, almost like it was a last minute decision to add them.

 

1 hour ago, RikuM said:

Though not listed in contents, these are included in the empire kit as a separate insert.

Ahh.  This warms my heart.  Thanks for the knowledge, guys.  I need to buy a car before winter, so I've only picked up the core and have been perusing the app.

Edited by Duciris

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In the "Missed Opportunities" thread DarthHenryAllen suggested generic ship tokens (no printed name/initiative). That is a brilliant idea and would have solved almost all of the issues discussed here. 3 dials + 3 tokens == 3 flyable ships in any combination of pilots. It would also save a fair bit of cardboard (for FFG to ship and for us to store). They would only need to be single sided which would save a few pennies in production.

Edited by McTavish

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On 9/16/2018 at 4:58 AM, costi said:

There was no Imperial expansion with Conner Nets and now there are 3 in the kit... you're saying I should go and buy 3 first-edition K-Wings now?

Well you did not have them before then, and so you successfully converted everything you owned.

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2 hours ago, McTavish said:

In the "Missed Opportunities" thread DarthHenryAllen suggested generic ship tokens (no printed name/initiative). That is a brilliant idea and would have solved almost all of the issues discussed here. 3 dials + 3 tokens == 3 flyable ships in any combination of pilots. It would also save a fair bit of cardboard (for FFG to ship and for us to store). They would only need to be single sided which would save a few pennies in production.

But would have sucked on the table

It's very nice to see what ships are what and what their initiative is without cross-referencing back to the ship cards every single time.

I am very glad they did not go with that system, would have made gameplay worse.

That being said i am sad they did not include enough generics for some ships.

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52 minutes ago, Icelom said:

But would have sucked on the table

It's very nice to see what ships are what and what their initiative is without cross-referencing back to the ship cards every single time.

I am very glad they did not go with that system, would have made gameplay worse.

That being said i am sad they did not include enough generics for some ships.

Agreed, generic tokens would have been a terrible decision. 

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9 hours ago, Duciris said:

 However, a quick parsing on the App's collection shows that the following are in their new ship packs but not their respective C-Kits:

  • X-Wing:  Thane Kyrell
  • Y-Wing:  Norra Wexley & Evaan Verlaine
  • TIE Fighter:  Gideon Hask & Del Meeko & Seyn Marana
  • TIE Advanced:  Ved Foslo
  • Firespray:  Koshka Frost
  • Fang Fighter:  Joy Rekkoff

As all 6 Re-Packs share this symptom, I conclude that we'll need to buy 1 of each ship over again when they come out, just to get the pilots.  Never fear, if you favorite pilot has gone missing, it's only temporary and you can buy him/her latter.

I haven't really looked through the upgrade cards, only enough to notice that the Scum C-Kit comes with Adrasta & Slave I for the Firespray.  The ship re-pack comes with both plus Marauder title.

The Rebel kit has Evaan, Norra and Thane in an extra bag, but why did they put the same pilot on both sides of the cardboard?  They could have put one of the unlimited pilots on the back.

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20 hours ago, Ironlord said:

It wouldn't be the only case of "more dials than generics".  The Galactic Empire kit has 3 dials but only 2 Alpha and 2 Saber tokens. So you can have 2 Alpha and 1 Saber, or 2 Saber and 1 Alpha, but you can't have 3 the same.


"More generic pilot cards than generic tokens" is a bit of an odd decision though.

This.

How these conversion kits weren't designed around being able to fly half a spam list of generics (so two kits should get you a full squad) of each ship will forever be a mystery to me. Spam lists aren't for everyone, but having to buy a third kit (or wait for the re-release) for some seems ridiculous.

Maybe you can't please everyone, but this seems like the easy way to please most.

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2 hours ago, NotBatman said:

This.

How these conversion kits weren't designed around being able to fly half a spam list of generics (so two kits should get you a full squad) of each ship will forever be a mystery to me.

For two-kit spam lists - strictly, in 200 pts you can't field 6 Alpha Squadron, only 5 (with not quite enough points to field the full 6). So you might as well field 4 Alpha Squadron and 1 Saber.

Same probably applies to some of the other "spam lists of generics". Instead of fielding 6 Phoenix pilots, you'd field 4 Phoenix and 2 Green Squadron. Instead of 8 Binayre Pirates, 6 Binayres and 2 Black Sun Soldiers. Instead of 8 Bandits, 6 Bandits and 2 Talas.

Some spam lists are doable with two kits though. TIE Academy Pilots for example. Even the M3-A Interceptor gets a viable spam list - you can field 6 Cartel Spacers with the tokens you have, even if you can't field 6 Tansarii Point Veterans.

Edited by Ironlord

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On 9/16/2018 at 4:17 AM, thespaceinvader said:

And if it had 2 scouts, there would be people complaining it didn't have 3, and so forth, or that you couldn't run X with Y because Y is on the other side of X's token, or etc.

The number of dials/cards/tokens will never satisfy everyone.  There will always be some compromises involved because that's life.

The lack of bombs and rigged cargo makes nearly a dozen upgrade cards completely useless.

There's a big difference between:

A} This converts two, but I wish it converted three.

and

B} This says it converts two, but it doesn't fully convert two, since you can only convert one copy of the generic pilot.

//

Personally, I mind that a lot more than the bombs and cargo tokens, because I can use my old bomb and cargo tokens, but there's nothing I can do about ship tokens.

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For me, considering I have not played a game of 2.0 so I might not notice other possible downfall of the conversion kit,  the biggest annoyance is the fact that none of the conversion kit includes any shield tokens. They should have included at least 10 in each conversion kit. There is just no valid reason for including a bunch of tokens but none for shields. 

I think it's a weak excuse that they just expect us to reuse the old ones. Why bother to reprint the stress token then? Previous ones were red and would work with the design decision that red token means they need a special action to be removed. Same for cloak icons. So if they bothered to include these, why not add a few shield token? It seems very short-sighted of them. If at least they would have added a few extra in a core. Nope, went with the smallest number possible.

I know a lot of people say that as you buy new ships you'll get enough that you won't even know what to do with them. When for me, with the conversion kit, I was not planning on having to rebuy ships I already own just to get shields tokens. So it will take a while before I get around buying ship I don't own to get enough shield token.

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2 hours ago, Koborover said:

2.0 should have streamlined those annoying double-sided ship tokens. I've always disliked swapping those around. Have just one and the same ship token per ship! Who cares about pilot name and initiative when you have the ship ID token.

I would personally like to have Init on the token.  But, that said, it's still doable: another hole in the token, and then provide Init tokens to fit.

FFG borked the CKs in many different ways.  At this point, I believe it's deliberate and that their hype leading to 2.0 was deliberately misleading.

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4 hours ago, Guibsx said:

For me, considering I have not played a game of 2.0 so I might not notice other possible downfall of the conversion kit,  the biggest annoyance is the fact that none of the conversion kit includes any shield tokens. They should have included at least 10 in each conversion kit. There is just no valid reason for including a bunch of tokens but none for shields. 

I think it's a weak excuse that they just expect us to reuse the old ones. Why bother to reprint the stress token then? Previous ones were red and would work with the design decision that red token means they need a special action to be removed. Same for cloak icons. So if they bothered to include these, why not add a few shield token? It seems very short-sighted of them. If at least they would have added a few extra in a core. Nope, went with the smallest number possible.

I know a lot of people say that as you buy new ships you'll get enough that you won't even know what to do with them. When for me, with the conversion kit, I was not planning on having to rebuy ships I already own just to get shields tokens. So it will take a while before I get around buying ship I don't own to get enough shield token.

For what it's worth, I was right there with you on the shields. However, after taking a red sharpie to one side of my 1.0 shields to make them double sided  and playing a couple of games with them, I realized I like them better. 

I think the other tokens all needed updating more urgently because they are tokens you place by your ship and these all have the new shape/color scheme. It's very helpful to know all green and blue tokens are good, all red and orange are bad, all circular tokens go away at the end of the round, squares stay. Giving players updated tokens that follow these patterns was a good move I think.

That said ... we kept getting ion and stress tokens confused last night and I kept forgetting about target locks because they are so small, also look somewhat like ion/stress, and there is no corresponding token on the owning ship. This actually has me considering reverting back to classic stress and target lock tokens. The color coding still works if you use the old tokens for those and the shape coding does too if you change it to circles go, non-circles don't :)

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7 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

FFG borked the CKs in many different ways.  At this point, I believe it's deliberate and that their hype leading to 2.0 was deliberately misleading.

I would attribute it to incompetence rather than any deliberate decisions. Evidence of some kind would be useful.

6 hours ago, DarthHenryAllen said:

For what it's worth, I was right there with you on the shields. However, after taking a red sharpie to one side of my 1.0 shields to make them double sided  and playing a couple of games with them, I realized I like them better. 

I think the other tokens all needed updating more urgently because they are tokens you place by your ship and these all have the new shape/color scheme. It's very helpful to know all green and blue tokens are good, all red and orange are bad, all circular tokens go away at the end of the round, squares stay. Giving players updated tokens that follow these patterns was a good move I think.

That said ... we kept getting ion and stress tokens confused last night and I kept forgetting about target locks because they are so small, also look somewhat like ion/stress, and there is no corresponding token on the owning ship. This actually has me considering reverting back to classic stress and target lock tokens. The color coding still works if you use the old tokens for those and the shape coding does too if you change it to circles go, non-circles don't :)

I agree. I prefer the old shields, target locks, and stress tokens. And, having finally won some metal focus tokens, I'll be using those or my acrylics.

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7 hours ago, DarthHenryAllen said:

That said ... we kept getting ion and stress tokens confused last night and I kept forgetting about target locks because they are so small, also look somewhat like ion/stress, and there is no corresponding token on the owning ship. 

I think the point of the new target locks is that you do have the corresponding number token on the owning ship.

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6 hours ago, Ironlord said:

I think the point of the new target locks is that you do have the corresponding number token on the owning ship.

Right, and that is cool for reducing clutter/token count. The issue is though, the numbers are always on the ship and the ship still looks exactly the same once it has a lock ... there is noting with/on the ship to remind you the associated lock is now somewhere out on the board. I'm just thinking, based on only two plays mind you, I may prefer the old system of having a token on the locking ship so that when I look at it, I'm reminded I have a lock.

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How long it's taking me to pack away my 1.0 stuff, assemble all of the dials, get all the new cards into my binders, and reorganize my factions in my carry cases. I only got through my rebels last night, my finger tips are still sore from all the dial assembly.

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On 9/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, Green Doo said:

I'm sad there were no shield tokens

Me too. I really liked the change from token vs no token to depleted vs full. If you were going to make me resue any of my 1.0 tokens, surely would stick to ones that didn't change at all like focus, evade and stress. 

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On 9/15/2018 at 4:40 PM, IndyPendant said:

I decided to go through the Conversion Kits in detail, and while I think they're very good value overall, and FFG has generally done a pretty good job with them, there are some decisions that seem...well, frankly baffling to me.  (And no, this isn't another post about shield tokens; I can see both sides of the argument there. ; )

About the only reason I can think of for some of these is "keeping the costs down", but there's also a bit of the repellent taste of deliberately misleading advertising here.  The kits were heavily implied, if not actually explicitly stated, to provide everything needed to run at least two of every ship released for 1.0, and 3 or even 4 of some ships.  But for some ships--particularly the medium and large bases--there have been artificial limitations in ship selection due to token and card distribution.  My mild, non-clinical OCD is very annoyed with this:

SCUM
Fang Fighter:
3 dials, 3 Zealous Recruits, but only 2 Skull Squadron Pilots (both card and token)
Particularly annoying: the Joy Rekkoff token included as an 'extra' for the Fang Fighter Expansion could have had a Skull Squadron printed on the opposite side.  Add a Skull Squadron card, and problem -easily- resolved.

M3-A Interceptor:
4 dials, 4 Cartel Spacers cards and tokens, 4 Tansarii Point Veteran cards, but only 2 Tansarii Point Veteran tokens
Particularly annoying: Only two Veteran ship tokens?  Really, FFG?  Provide one more ship token with a Spacer/Veteran, and change an existing Spacer to a Veteran, and boom.  Problem would have been solved.

YV-666 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Trandoshan Slaver
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bossk and Latts Razzi at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Jumpmaster 5000:
2 dials, 1 Contracted Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Dengar and Tel Trevura at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Lancer-Class Pursuit Craft:
2 dials, 1 Shadowport Hunter
Particulary annoying: can't play with Asajj Ventriss and Ketsu Onyo at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
(Seems FFG went particularly cheap on the medium/large ship tokens.  It's a theme as we continue.)

EMPIRE
TIE/SK Striker:
3 dials, 3 Black Squadron Scout cards, 2 Black Squadron Scout ship tokens
Particularly annoying: nothing much to add here, for once.  Needed one more token, or one less unique pilot card.  Or maybe one more token and unique pilot, I don't know.

Lambda-Class T-4A Shuttle:
2 dials, 1 Omicron Group Pilot
Particularly annoying: can't play with Captain Kagi and Colonel Jendon at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

REBEL
RZ-1 A-Wing:
(Edit: missed this one, my first run through.)
3 dials, 2 Green Squadron Pilots; 2 Phoenix Squadron Pilots
Particularly annoying: Uhm, seriously?  Wtf, FFG?  An extra Green/Phoenix token and two more cards, and this wouldn't even have been an issue!
 
UT-60D U-Wing:
2 dials, 1 Blue Squadron Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bodhi Rook and Heff Tobber at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Outer Rim Smuggler
Particularly annoying: can't play with Han Solo and Chewbacca at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
I built this list since I'm considering filling out my ship collection to match what the kits provide, since "everything for 2 of every ship", while -mostly- accurate, is still blatantly false.  I don't see myself wanting to fly two of many of the larger ships at once, so at least I have zero temptation to buy a second YV-666, Lancer, Lambda, or U-Wing.  I -might- fill in some of the other ships I'm missing, just in case, but I am -absolutely- limiting myself in the ships listed above.  If FFG is going to pull this **** move, I for one will show my disapproval with my wallet.

(That having been said, I am overall rather happy with the Conversion Kits.  Which makes these obvious, apparently easily avoidable issues all the more frustrating for me!)

Don't you see the obvious? Some of us have like 10 tie fighters, and 8 X-wings, 5 & 5 Interceptors and Khiraxes, we'll need (At least) 2 of each conversion kit if not more, that's how you'll get 4 Green Squadron pilots, and be able to fly Han And Chewie together. But I love the Core set. I have 6 Imperial base tokens with 2 Unique pilots on each token so 2 Iden Versio, 2 Night beast, and  2 Valen Rudor. I keep looking at these doubles I have of Unique Pilots (For which I have 1 card each), and literally going WTF!?!?

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1 hour ago, dewbie420 said:

Just a few more shield and calculate tokens would have been nice.... but the Moldy Crow affair really sucks bantha butt.

agree! im a scum player and i miss out on the hwk title unless i fork out for the rebel conversion kit. :(

I'm going to hibernate for a while at a bar in Mos Eisley and wait for FFG to rerelease the Hwk-290 and then jump on the next YT-1300 freighter headed to my LGS.

Edited by Da_Brown_Bomber

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On 9/15/2018 at 11:20 PM, Dosiere said:

I was a little annoyed more of certain ships weren’t included at first, but haven’t actually come across a list I’d want to use yet that isn’t covered.  I dunno, there’s a lot of stuff in these boxes.  Aside from the moldy crow title not in the scum kit, I just haven’t come across anything while list building or actually playing that’s been a problem.

5 khiraxz and other common swarms require multiple kits. its prrtty straight forward that these kits were designed cheaply with poor design choices. even upping them $10 but including everything would have been better.

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On 9/15/2018 at 4:40 PM, IndyPendant said:

I decided to go through the Conversion Kits in detail, and while I think they're very good value overall, and FFG has generally done a pretty good job with them, there are some decisions that seem...well, frankly baffling to me.  (And no, this isn't another post about shield tokens; I can see both sides of the argument there. ; )

About the only reason I can think of for some of these is "keeping the costs down", but there's also a bit of the repellent taste of deliberately misleading advertising here.  The kits were heavily implied, if not actually explicitly stated, to provide everything needed to run at least two of every ship released for 1.0, and 3 or even 4 of some ships.  But for some ships--particularly the medium and large bases--there have been artificial limitations in ship selection due to token and card distribution.  My mild, non-clinical OCD is very annoyed with this:

SCUM
Fang Fighter:
3 dials, 3 Zealous Recruits, but only 2 Skull Squadron Pilots (both card and token)
Particularly annoying: the Joy Rekkoff token included as an 'extra' for the Fang Fighter Expansion could have had a Skull Squadron printed on the opposite side.  Add a Skull Squadron card, and problem -easily- resolved.

M3-A Interceptor:
4 dials, 4 Cartel Spacers cards and tokens, 4 Tansarii Point Veteran cards, but only 2 Tansarii Point Veteran tokens
Particularly annoying: Only two Veteran ship tokens?  Really, FFG?  Provide one more ship token with a Spacer/Veteran, and change an existing Spacer to a Veteran, and boom.  Problem would have been solved.

YV-666 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Trandoshan Slaver
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bossk and Latts Razzi at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Jumpmaster 5000:
2 dials, 1 Contracted Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Dengar and Tel Trevura at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Lancer-Class Pursuit Craft:
2 dials, 1 Shadowport Hunter
Particulary annoying: can't play with Asajj Ventriss and Ketsu Onyo at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
(Seems FFG went particularly cheap on the medium/large ship tokens.  It's a theme as we continue.)

EMPIRE
TIE/SK Striker:
3 dials, 3 Black Squadron Scout cards, 2 Black Squadron Scout ship tokens
Particularly annoying: nothing much to add here, for once.  Needed one more token, or one less unique pilot card.  Or maybe one more token and unique pilot, I don't know.

Lambda-Class T-4A Shuttle:
2 dials, 1 Omicron Group Pilot
Particularly annoying: can't play with Captain Kagi and Colonel Jendon at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

REBEL
RZ-1 A-Wing:
(Edit: missed this one, my first run through.)
3 dials, 2 Green Squadron Pilots; 2 Phoenix Squadron Pilots
Particularly annoying: Uhm, seriously?  Wtf, FFG?  An extra Green/Phoenix token and two more cards, and this wouldn't even have been an issue!
 
UT-60D U-Wing:
2 dials, 1 Blue Squadron Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bodhi Rook and Heff Tobber at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Outer Rim Smuggler
Particularly annoying: can't play with Han Solo and Chewbacca at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
I built this list since I'm considering filling out my ship collection to match what the kits provide, since "everything for 2 of every ship", while -mostly- accurate, is still blatantly false.  I don't see myself wanting to fly two of many of the larger ships at once, so at least I have zero temptation to buy a second YV-666, Lancer, Lambda, or U-Wing.  I -might- fill in some of the other ships I'm missing, just in case, but I am -absolutely- limiting myself in the ships listed above.  If FFG is going to pull this **** move, I for one will show my disapproval with my wallet.

(That having been said, I am overall rather happy with the Conversion Kits.  Which makes these obvious, apparently easily avoidable issues all the more frustrating for me!)

 

Has anyone consider putting together a pdf of with these troubled ship tokens (namely generics and the ones that have both unique pilots on the same token), so one can print them out on card stock material?   There is no reason why these token needs to be so thick.  I know that it may not be tournament approved, but it can be good for casual play.

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