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IndyPendant

List of Conversion Kit annoyances

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14 hours ago, IndyPendant said:

I decided to go through the Conversion Kits in detail, and while I think they're very good value overall, and FFG has generally done a pretty good job with them, there are some decisions that seem...well, frankly baffling to me.  (And no, this isn't another post about shield tokens; I can see both sides of the argument there. ; )

About the only reason I can think of for some of these is "keeping the costs down", but there's also a bit of the repellent taste of deliberately misleading advertising here.  The kits were heavily implied, if not actually explicitly stated, to provide everything needed to run at least two of every ship released for 1.0, and 3 or even 4 of some ships.  But for some ships--particularly the medium and large bases--there have been artificial limitations in ship selection due to token and card distribution.  My mild, non-clinical OCD is very annoyed with this:

SCUM
Fang Fighter:
3 dials, 3 Zealous Recruits, but only 2 Skull Squadron Pilots (both card and token)
Particularly annoying: the Joy Rekkoff token included as an 'extra' for the Fang Fighter Expansion could have had a Skull Squadron printed on the opposite side.  Add a Skull Squadron card, and problem -easily- resolved.

M3-A Interceptor:
4 dials, 4 Cartel Spacers cards and tokens, 4 Tansarii Point Veteran cards, but only 2 Tansarii Point Veteran tokens
Particularly annoying: Only two Veteran ship tokens?  Really, FFG?  Provide one more ship token with a Spacer/Veteran, and change an existing Spacer to a Veteran, and boom.  Problem would have been solved.

YV-666 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Trandoshan Slaver
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bossk and Latts Razzi at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Jumpmaster 5000:
2 dials, 1 Contracted Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Dengar and Tel Trevura at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Lancer-Class Pursuit Craft:
2 dials, 1 Shadowport Hunter
Particulary annoying: can't play with Asajj Ventriss and Ketsu Onyo at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
(Seems FFG went particularly cheap on the medium/large ship tokens.  It's a theme as we continue.)

EMPIRE
TIE/SK Striker:
3 dials, 3 Black Squadron Scout cards, 2 Black Squadron Scout ship tokens
Particularly annoying: nothing much to add here, for once.  Needed one more token, or one less unique pilot card.  Or maybe one more token and unique pilot, I don't know.

Lambda-Class T-4A Shuttle:
2 dials, 1 Omicron Group Pilot
Particularly annoying: can't play with Captain Kagi and Colonel Jendon at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

REBEL
RZ-1 A-Wing:
(Edit: missed this one, my first run through.)
3 dials, 2 Green Squadron Pilots; 2 Phoenix Squadron Pilots
Particularly annoying: Uhm, seriously?  Wtf, FFG?  An extra Green/Phoenix token and two more cards, and this wouldn't even have been an issue!
 
UT-60D U-Wing:
2 dials, 1 Blue Squadron Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bodhi Rook and Heff Tobber at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Outer Rim Smuggler
Particularly annoying: can't play with Han Solo and Chewbacca at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
I built this list since I'm considering filling out my ship collection to match what the kits provide, since "everything for 2 of every ship", while -mostly- accurate, is still blatantly false.  I don't see myself wanting to fly two of many of the larger ships at once, so at least I have zero temptation to buy a second YV-666, Lancer, Lambda, or U-Wing.  I -might- fill in some of the other ships I'm missing, just in case, but I am -absolutely- limiting myself in the ships listed above.  If FFG is going to pull this **** move, I for one will show my disapproval with my wallet.

(That having been said, I am overall rather happy with the Conversion Kits.  Which makes these obvious, apparently easily avoidable issues all the more frustrating for me!)

I would say for all the issues with pilots being on the same token, just use another token to represent the arcs. The pilot cards are still present and the ship token really doesn’t matter, in my opinion. 

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My main issue with the convertion kit is as a Rebel only player, I have not bought other facction ships. So the only valid device token I have is the Coroner net and Seismic Charge.  Would have been nice to have at least one of each...

The other valid bombs are only found in other faction expansion:

Proxmity Mine: Slave 1, IG-2000 and Imperial Veteran

Bomblet Generator: Scurrg H-6 Bomber

Proton Bomb: Tie Bomber, VT-49 Decimator

Loose Cargo: Shadow Caster

 

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I'm (mildly) disappointed in what I see as a wastage of cardboard for large ship dials that have less use due to the lack of needed generic pilot cards and base tokens. It's not really converting 2 of these large ships for you, but merely allowing you to fly two named pilots if you wanted. It's a bit half-hearted. That space on the board could have been used better, such as giving us some other basic game tokens that are lacking (and it's interesting that the booklet says that we're expecting to use our old tokens for some things, but shields are not included in that list). I think they were trying to cover too many ships in one kit, but were faced with the desire to offer a single kit per faction. 

All in all though, they're pretty good kits, packed with a lot of upgrade cards.

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47 minutes ago, redxavier said:

All in all though, they're pretty good kits, packed with a lot of upgrade cards.

Finally opened my imp conversion last night and agreed it’s a nice kit overall. That said, when people say these things are jammed packed and there was no room I have to get the number of their dealer. The cardboard spacer in there is at least a half inch too wide for whats it’s protecting. They could have easily put 2-3 more sheets of punchboard in these, they chose not to. But it is what it is, took an hour to punch one kit so there is a lot.

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11 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Finally opened my imp conversion last night and agreed it’s a nice kit overall. That said, when people say these things are jammed packed and there was no room I have to get the number of their dealer. The cardboard spacer in there is at least a half inch too wide for whats it’s protecting. They could have easily put 2-3 more sheets of punchboard in these, they chose not to. But it is what it is, took an hour to punch one kit so there is a lot.

Well, weight also is a consideration and these are a lot more dense than typical X-Wing expansions. Of course they could have included more stuff without running at a loss, but I see no indication that these kits are more profitable than the average X-Wing product.

Anyhow, I'm very happy with the kits anyways, despite production errors and scummy FFG packaging - I feel like I have a much larger array of (viable) options now then I had with my collection before.

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18 hours ago, costi said:

There was no Imperial expansion with Conner Nets and now there are 3 in the kit... you're saying I should go and buy 3 first-edition K-Wings now?

Why do you need three Conner nets, just because they have you cards for them? I suppose if you only had one of a ship that they gave you two dials for they should have included another ship in the conversion kit as well.

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1 hour ago, LegionThree said:

Why do you need three Conner nets, just because they have you cards for them? I suppose if you only had one of a ship that they gave you two dials for they should have included another ship in the conversion kit as well.

Because you want to be able to use them?

Arguably they ought to include 2 Conner nets per card now too, as they have 2 charges and aren't necessarily removed immediately.

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2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because you want to be able to use them?

Arguably they ought to include 2 Conner nets per card now too, as they have 2 charges and aren't necessarily removed immediately.

You realize that the inclusions to the kits that you and everyone else want them to put out would mean you're paying $80-100 per kit right? If you want everything why not just have them release a $400 faction box with everything you need and skip conversion kit all together. Their had to be a balancing point chosen. 

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1 minute ago, LegionThree said:

You realize that the inclusions to the kits that you and everyone else want them to put out would mean you're paying $80-100 per kit right? If you want everything why not just have them release a $400 faction box with everything you need and skip conversion kit all together. Their had to be a balancing point chosen. 

Honestly, I'm not really surprised they didn't include them.  Putting in 3 cargos and 3 conners would have been at least one more punchboard which would have been expensive - and it would have been a different die design for Imp versus Rebel/Scum because Imps don't get Cargo.

It's a little disappointing, but not unexpected.

It's still going to bug me.

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Honestly at this point the only thing I can’t forgive is the omission of shield tokens. I personally have 3 conners and 2 cargos from 1st edition and scads of bombs.

I can also fill a dump truck with 1.0 shield tokens but that isn’t the point. They are not listed as 2.0 compliant in the insert, bombs are. So theoretically ffg can be pricks and disallow 1.0 shields which means almost all ships in rebel or scum and enough imps to matter are unplayable as is. I could give a crap less if it increased the cost, shield tokens should have been included.

not sure why the font size went wonky copy and pasting

Edited by LordFajubi

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Just now, RogueLeader42 said:

The answer from Asmodee/FFG is literally: It's within the tolerance. Here have some pdf to print your on tokens if you have problems with it!

We could have done that to begin with and not paid ffg anything. Product paid for should be supported. 

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On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:36 AM, Rangor said:

No bombs, only 3 Calculate Tokens in Scum Conversion Kit....

Man, their Suggested Scum List was Guri, IG-88, & 4-LOM with heavy focus on Calculate.  Without extra shenanigans (that my brain is too tired to go through), you could easily generate 5 in a turn.

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 5:51 AM, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

0-0-0 is only available in Scum pack, even though he can be played with Vader.

Maul is similarly unprovided in Scum.

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:43 AM, spacebug said:

I'm not sure you understand the issue.  If you do, you're not communicating that well.

If it had 2 Scouts, that would be fine because they advertised the kit as providing 2 Jumpmasters.

 

Edit: The Starviper has pilot tokens for 3 Black Sun Enforcers. We're not upset about not getting a third dial and pilot card to match because the kit advertised being able to convert 2 Starvipers.

The second problem to this is that you'll need in excess of 2 C-Kits to fly swarm-style lists.  You can still run 3 JumpMasters, but to do that you'll need to buy a third C-Kit?  You've already bought 3 $40 ships.  I was expecting to convert my entire collection over with 6 (2-per faction) kits.  Plus a new core.  Now I need more than that?

 

I was also of the belief that they'd stated you would not need to buy new editions of ships to get every pilot.  You needed to get the new Core for tokens, damage deck, etc.  So, stashing Luke Skywalker & Jek Porkins for the X-Wing and Iden Versio, Valen Rudor & "Night Beast" aboard its TIE is forgivable.  However, a quick parsing on the App's collection shows that the following are in their new ship packs but not their respective C-Kits:

  • X-Wing:  Thane Kyrell
  • Y-Wing:  Norra Wexley & Evaan Verlaine
  • TIE Fighter:  Gideon Hask & Del Meeko & Seyn Marana
  • TIE Advanced:  Ved Foslo
  • Firespray:  Koshka Frost
  • Fang Fighter:  Joy Rekkoff

As all 6 Re-Packs share this symptom, I conclude that we'll need to buy 1 of each ship over again when they come out, just to get the pilots.  Never fear, if you favorite pilot has gone missing, it's only temporary and you can buy him/her latter.

I haven't really looked through the upgrade cards, only enough to notice that the Scum C-Kit comes with Adrasta & Slave I for the Firespray.  The ship re-pack comes with both plus Marauder title.

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40 minutes ago, Duciris said:

Man, their Suggested Scum List was Guri, IG-88, & 4-LOM with heavy focus on Calculate.  Without extra shenanigans (that my brain is too tired to go through), you could easily generate 5 in a turn.

Maul is similarly unprovided in Scum.

The second problem to this is that you'll need in excess of 2 C-Kits to fly swarm-style lists.  You can still run 3 JumpMasters, but to do that you'll need to buy a third C-Kit?  You've already bought 3 $40 ships.  I was expecting to convert my entire collection over with 6 (2-per faction) kits.  Plus a new core.  Now I need more than that?

 

I was also of the belief that they'd stated you would not need to buy new editions of ships to get every pilot.  You needed to get the new Core for tokens, damage deck, etc.  So, stashing Luke Skywalker & Jek Porkins for the X-Wing and Iden Versio, Valen Rudor & "Night Beast" aboard its TIE is forgivable.  However, a quick parsing on the App's collection shows that the following are in their new ship packs but not their respective C-Kits:

  • X-Wing:  Thane Kyrell
  • Y-Wing:  Norra Wexley & Evaan Verlaine
  • TIE Fighter:  Gideon Hask & Del Meeko & Seyn Marana
  • TIE Advanced:  Ved Foslo
  • Firespray:  Koshka Frost
  • Fang Fighter:  Joy Rekkoff

As all 6 Re-Packs share this symptom, I conclude that we'll need to buy 1 of each ship over again when they come out, just to get the pilots.  Never fear, if you favorite pilot has gone missing, it's only temporary and you can buy him/her latter.

I haven't really looked through the upgrade cards, only enough to notice that the Scum C-Kit comes with Adrasta & Slave I for the Firespray.  The ship re-pack comes with both plus Marauder title.

My conversion kit had those cards in an extra bag, almost like it was a last minute decision to add them.

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38 minutes ago, Duciris said:

 

  • TIE Fighter:  Gideon Hask & Del Meeko & Seyn Marana
  • TIE Advanced:  Ved Foslo

Though not listed in contents, these are included in the empire kit as a separate insert.

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5 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

or they were some of the last ships to be designed - as has been mentioned elsewhere.

Wha? How do you design wave 1 last? That seriously makes no sense.

Not to mention xwings and ties are starter ships, there is no way they designed those last.

Edited by LordFajubi

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17 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Wha? How do you design wave 1 last? That seriously makes no sense.

Not to mention xwings and ties are starter ships, there is no way they designed those last.

17 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

 

just parts of it. Updating existing abilities may be easier? They also may have decided to add these pilots to the game later?

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