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IndyPendant

List of Conversion Kit annoyances

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I decided to go through the Conversion Kits in detail, and while I think they're very good value overall, and FFG has generally done a pretty good job with them, there are some decisions that seem...well, frankly baffling to me.  (And no, this isn't another post about shield tokens; I can see both sides of the argument there. ; )

About the only reason I can think of for some of these is "keeping the costs down", but there's also a bit of the repellent taste of deliberately misleading advertising here.  The kits were heavily implied, if not actually explicitly stated, to provide everything needed to run at least two of every ship released for 1.0, and 3 or even 4 of some ships.  But for some ships--particularly the medium and large bases--there have been artificial limitations in ship selection due to token and card distribution.  My mild, non-clinical OCD is very annoyed with this:

SCUM
Fang Fighter:
3 dials, 3 Zealous Recruits, but only 2 Skull Squadron Pilots (both card and token)
Particularly annoying: the Joy Rekkoff token included as an 'extra' for the Fang Fighter Expansion could have had a Skull Squadron printed on the opposite side.  Add a Skull Squadron card, and problem -easily- resolved.

M3-A Interceptor:
4 dials, 4 Cartel Spacers cards and tokens, 4 Tansarii Point Veteran cards, but only 2 Tansarii Point Veteran tokens
Particularly annoying: Only two Veteran ship tokens?  Really, FFG?  Provide one more ship token with a Spacer/Veteran, and change an existing Spacer to a Veteran, and boom.  Problem would have been solved.

YV-666 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Trandoshan Slaver
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bossk and Latts Razzi at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Jumpmaster 5000:
2 dials, 1 Contracted Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Dengar and Tel Trevura at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Lancer-Class Pursuit Craft:
2 dials, 1 Shadowport Hunter
Particulary annoying: can't play with Asajj Ventriss and Ketsu Onyo at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
(Seems FFG went particularly cheap on the medium/large ship tokens.  It's a theme as we continue.)

EMPIRE
TIE/SK Striker:
3 dials, 3 Black Squadron Scout cards, 2 Black Squadron Scout ship tokens
Particularly annoying: nothing much to add here, for once.  Needed one more token, or one less unique pilot card.  Or maybe one more token and unique pilot, I don't know.

Lambda-Class T-4A Shuttle:
2 dials, 1 Omicron Group Pilot
Particularly annoying: can't play with Captain Kagi and Colonel Jendon at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

REBEL
RZ-1 A-Wing:
(Edit: missed this one, my first run through.)
3 dials, 2 Green Squadron Pilots; 2 Phoenix Squadron Pilots
Particularly annoying: Uhm, seriously?  Wtf, FFG?  An extra Green/Phoenix token and two more cards, and this wouldn't even have been an issue!
 
UT-60D U-Wing:
2 dials, 1 Blue Squadron Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bodhi Rook and Heff Tobber at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Outer Rim Smuggler
Particularly annoying: can't play with Han Solo and Chewbacca at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
I built this list since I'm considering filling out my ship collection to match what the kits provide, since "everything for 2 of every ship", while -mostly- accurate, is still blatantly false.  I don't see myself wanting to fly two of many of the larger ships at once, so at least I have zero temptation to buy a second YV-666, Lancer, Lambda, or U-Wing.  I -might- fill in some of the other ships I'm missing, just in case, but I am -absolutely- limiting myself in the ships listed above.  If FFG is going to pull this **** move, I for one will show my disapproval with my wallet.

(That having been said, I am overall rather happy with the Conversion Kits.  Which makes these obvious, apparently easily avoidable issues all the more frustrating for me!)
Edited by IndyPendant

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They had to force converters to spend money on new ships somehow. I don’t buy the space argument, they make the boxes too unless the box fairy plopped a few million in their laps. It only annoys me that that it makes trades very difficult and some ship combinations impossible without spending a good chunk more money.

2.0 is my last rodeo for xwing I won’t come back for 3.0 after this but damage done so have to make some lemonade and enjoy what I can. I can say 100% though this has affected my spending on 2.0. It’s gone from all in and likely making more future purchases to I’m actively not buying a thing for xwing till I see stuff opened fully and deciding if I really need it or not.

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We’ve known about this issue for months, it sucks that some people are still only figuring this out now.

I think that if the podcasting community  had put more pressure on FFG that this wasn’t okay back when we found out in June, they could have fixed it by now, or at least people wouldn’t be getting the rude surprise after opening their kits that many lists will be unflyable without multiple conversion kits. But they chose to protect FFG from the blowback by dismissing the issue or sweeping it under the rug, for reasons I still don’t understand.

Edited by Tvboy

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I was a little annoyed more of certain ships weren’t included at first, but haven’t actually come across a list I’d want to use yet that isn’t covered.  I dunno, there’s a lot of stuff in these boxes.  Aside from the moldy crow title not in the scum kit, I just haven’t come across anything while list building or actually playing that’s been a problem.

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As the OP said, the lack of pilot cards and tokens was disappointing.  4 Z-95 dials, but only cards and tokens to fly 3 of the cheap ones (both Rebel and Scum)

Really short on tokens - some shields would have been good.  Some target locks with 2 lock tokens, for ships that can have 2 locks at once.  They can make sure we have the "dial ID tokens" in case we want to buy some new dial kits (which I assume no longer come with the sheet of 1st edition dial tokens), but not enough of the new tokens to actually play the game.

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The lack of bomb and rigged cargo tokens is the biggest issue I have.  Those cards are just unusable without tokens, it's super skeevy not to include them, especially the Rigged Cargo which have only been available in a single set prior to now.

Number of dials/pilot cards/tokens is never going to satisfy everyone.

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8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Number of dials/pilot cards/tokens is never going to satisfy everyone.

Just to be clear, we're not complaining that there aren't enough, we're complaining that the pilot cards and tokens don't match the number of dials given.  When they advertise that the conversion kit can convert so many of a kind of ship...you kind of expect to be able to fly that many of that kind of ship.

2 Jumpmasters, you expect to be able to fly 2 Contracted Scouts, 4 Z-95s, you expect to be able to have a miniswarm of 4 Binayre Pirates.  We're not saying "Waa, only 2 Jumpmaster dials", we're saying "Waa, you advertised this as supporting 2 Jumpmasters, went to the bother of putting in 2 dials, but then came up short on the supporting cards and tokens for these".

Edited by spacebug

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And if it had 2 scouts, there would be people complaining it didn't have 3, and so forth, or that you couldn't run X with Y because Y is on the other side of X's token, or etc.

The number of dials/cards/tokens will never satisfy everyone.  There will always be some compromises involved because that's life.

The lack of bombs and rigged cargo makes nearly a dozen upgrade cards completely useless.

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27 minutes ago, spacebug said:

Oh yes, and not nearly enough medium bases for those who like to store their ships on bases.

4 bases in Scum set for the 10 dials for medium base ships. ?

But you know the Emire has 4 when they only need 2 because Empire isn’t the medium base faction and only converts the Punisher. 

Also the Empire kit comes with multiple expert handling which cannot be equiped by any Empire Pilot. 

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On 9/16/2018 at 8:17 PM, thespaceinvader said:

And if it had 2 scouts, there would be people complaining it didn't have 3.

I'm not sure you understand the issue.  If you do, you're not communicating that well.

If it had 2 Scouts, that would be fine because they advertised the kit as providing 2 Jumpmasters.

 

Edit: The Starviper has pilot tokens for 3 Black Sun Enforcers. We're not upset about not getting a third dial and pilot card to match - the kit advertised being able to convert 2 Starvipers so we don't expect all the parts for 3.

Edited by spacebug
clarity

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1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

The lack of bomb and rigged cargo tokens is the biggest issue I have.  Those cards are just unusable without tokens, it's super skeevy not to include them, especially the Rigged Cargo which have only been available in a single set prior to now.

Number of dials/pilot cards/tokens is never going to satisfy everyone.

It's a conversion kit, designed to convert what you already own to 2.0. If you don't own bombs or cargo chutes maybe you should go purchase them. This was never meant to be a faction in a box, it was meant to make it financially feasible for the majority of players to keep playing the game that they love. Is it perfect, no. Is it way better than anything I expected, absolutely. 

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2 minutes ago, LegionThree said:

It's a conversion kit, designed to convert what you already own to 2.0. If you don't own bombs or cargo chutes maybe you should go purchase them. This was never meant to be a faction in a box, it was meant to make it financially feasible for the majority of players to keep playing the game that they love. Is it perfect, no. Is it way better than anything I expected, absolutely. 

There are 3 rigged cargo chutes in each kit that has them.

It was impossible to run 3 Shadow Casters even in Scum in standard play, let alone in Rebels who could run 0.


The idea that the average player would have more than one, MAYBE two is just... transparently incorrect.

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7 hours ago, Tvboy said:

We’ve known about this issue for months, it sucks that some people are still only figuring this out now.

I think that if the podcasting community  had put more pressure on FFG that this wasn’t okay back when we found out in June, they could have fixed it by now, or at least people wouldn’t be getting the rude surprise after opening their kits that many lists will be unflyable without multiple conversion kits. But they chose to protect FFG from the blowback by dismissing the issue or sweeping it under the rug, for reasons I still don’t understand.

You don’t bite the hand that feeds you...

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11 hours ago, IndyPendant said:

I decided to go through the Conversion Kits in detail, and while I think they're very good value overall, and FFG has generally done a pretty good job with them, there are some decisions that seem...well, frankly baffling to me.  (And no, this isn't another post about shield tokens; I can see both sides of the argument there. ; )

About the only reason I can think of for some of these is "keeping the costs down", but there's also a bit of the repellent taste of deliberately misleading advertising here.  The kits were heavily implied, if not actually explicitly stated, to provide everything needed to run at least two of every ship released for 1.0, and 3 or even 4 of some ships.  But for some ships--particularly the medium and large bases--there have been artificial limitations in ship selection due to token and card distribution.  My mild, non-clinical OCD is very annoyed with this:

SCUM
Fang Fighter:
3 dials, 3 Zealous Recruits, but only 2 Skull Squadron Pilots (both card and token)
Particularly annoying: the Joy Rekkoff token included as an 'extra' for the Fang Fighter Expansion could have had a Skull Squadron printed on the opposite side.  Add a Skull Squadron card, and problem -easily- resolved.

M3-A Interceptor:
4 dials, 4 Cartel Spacers cards and tokens, 4 Tansarii Point Veteran cards, but only 2 Tansarii Point Veteran tokens
Particularly annoying: Only two Veteran ship tokens?  Really, FFG?  Provide one more ship token with a Spacer/Veteran, and change an existing Spacer to a Veteran, and boom.  Problem would have been solved.

YV-666 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Trandoshan Slaver
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bossk and Latts Razzi at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Jumpmaster 5000:
2 dials, 1 Contracted Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Dengar and Tel Trevura at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Lancer-Class Pursuit Craft:
2 dials, 1 Shadowport Hunter
Particulary annoying: can't play with Asajj Ventriss and Ketsu Onyo at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
(Seems FFG went particularly cheap on the medium/large ship tokens.  It's a theme as we continue.)

EMPIRE
TIE/SK Striker:
3 dials, 3 Black Squadron Scout cards, 2 Black Squadron Scout ship tokens
Particularly annoying: nothing much to add here, for once.  Needed one more token, or one less unique pilot card.  Or maybe one more token and unique pilot, I don't know.

Lambda-Class T-4A Shuttle:
2 dials, 1 Omicron Group Pilot
Particularly annoying: can't play with Captain Kagi and Colonel Jendon at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

REBEL
RZ-1 A-Wing:
(Edit: missed this one, my first run through.)
3 dials, 2 Green Squadron Pilots; 2 Phoenix Squadron Pilots
Particularly annoying: Uhm, seriously?  Wtf, FFG?  An extra Green/Phoenix token and two more cards, and this wouldn't even have been an issue!
 
UT-60D U-Wing:
2 dials, 1 Blue Squadron Scout
Particularly annoying: can't play with Bodhi Rook and Heff Tobber at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.

Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter:
2 dials, 1 Outer Rim Smuggler
Particularly annoying: can't play with Han Solo and Chewbacca at the same time, since they're opposite sides of the same ship token.
 
I built this list since I'm considering filling out my ship collection to match what the kits provide, since "everything for 2 of every ship", while -mostly- accurate, is still blatantly false.  I don't see myself wanting to fly two of many of the larger ships at once, so at least I have zero temptation to buy a second YV-666, Lancer, Lambda, or U-Wing.  I -might- fill in some of the other ships I'm missing, just in case, but I am -absolutely- limiting myself in the ships listed above.  If FFG is going to pull this **** move, I for one will show my disapproval with my wallet.

(That having been said, I am overall rather happy with the Conversion Kits.  Which makes these obvious, apparently easily avoidable issues all the more frustrating for me!)

0-0-0 is only available in Scum pack, even though he can be played with Vader.

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1 hour ago, LegionThree said:

It's a conversion kit, designed to convert what you already own to 2.0. If you don't own bombs or cargo chutes maybe you should go purchase them. This was never meant to be a faction in a box, it was meant to make it financially feasible for the majority of players to keep playing the game that they love. Is it perfect, no. Is it way better than anything I expected, absolutely. 

There was no Imperial expansion with Conner Nets and now there are 3 in the kit... you're saying I should go and buy 3 first-edition K-Wings now?

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