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2.0 - all who are leaving

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2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

How I feel every time I hear someone say they're sticking with 1.0:

JPizRL5.gif

I’m sure 2.0 is great, I’m just not willing to spend any money on it.  I’m already investing in two other FFG products.  Plus I never really liked the competitive scene in xwing, so no reason to move over.

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5 minutes ago, Bakura83 said:

I’m sure 2.0 is great, I’m just not willing to spend any money on it.  I’m already investing in two other FFG products.  Plus I never really liked the competitive scene in xwing, so no reason to move over.

Well, if 2.0 isn't for you, it's not for you; but I don't really get why so many people think it's only for competitive players.  I'm a strict casual player, and I still think 2.0 is a great move.

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3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Well, if 2.0 isn't for you, it's not for you; but I don't really get why so many people think it's only for competitive players.  I'm a strict casual player, and I still think 2.0 is a great move.

All I meant was that not caring about competitive gave me even less reason to upgrade.  I’m sure it’s a fun system for any type of play.

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3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Well, if 2.0 isn't for you, it's not for you; but I don't really get why so many people think it's only for competitive players.  I'm a strict casual player, and I still think 2.0 is a great move.

I imagine because in 2.0 you actually have learn some tactics it's just a case of picking the strongest Rebel or Scum list and winning without skill.

 

The best thing about 2.0 is everyone is on a level playing field and it takes a little skillto win consistently 

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1 hour ago, Big k said:

I imagine because in 2.0 you actually have learn some tactics it's just a case of picking the strongest Rebel or Scum list and winning without skill.

 

The best thing about 2.0 is everyone is on a level playing field and it takes a little skillto win consistently 

Yeah that’s why. ?

Or, maybe, it’s about the fact that in order to continue playing in sanctioned events, you have to trade a significant amount of cash for cardboard. One of the greatest strengths of x-wing was that for about $100, anybody could play. After that, $10-15 for a small ship and the occasional $30-50 for a large ship every few months kept you going. Some of us bought more, but it wasn’t a requirement. 

Those days are over. To have full range of playing all the ships you own immediately, you need to spend somewhere in the vicinity of $300. And that’s just to get started with core sets and conversion kits. That doesn’t include the new $35 falcon or fang fighters (plural) for new cards.

if this was the only game, or even the only Star Wars game out there, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But there are so many other games that are as good or better than this one to buy. 2.0 was the right move in concept but the wrong move in execution. 

 

Edit: It’s worth mentioning that with minor tweaks, 1.0 can be played just like 2.0, and without the exorbitant expense of more cardboard. In casual kitchen table games, for example we’ve started allocating Force points to players at the start of the game that can be used for any ship during the game to sway the course of the battle. But once they’re gone, they’re gone.

Edited by Boris_the_Dwarf

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Hard not to have sympathy with those who have already invested a lot in 1.0 and don’t fancy the start-up costs of 2.0.

I’m still undecided and might well flog my 1.0 gear and get into something else altogether.

Not sure I can justify the price of converting to 2.0 just to play a few games every now and again with friends.

Edited by mfairhu1

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1 hour ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Yeah that’s why. ?

Or, maybe, it’s about the fact that in order to continue playing in sanctioned events, you have to trade a significant amount of cash for cardboard. One of the greatest strengths of x-wing was that for about $100, anybody could play. After that, $10-15 for a small ship and the occasional $30-50 for a large ship every few months kept you going. Some of us bought more, but it wasn’t a requirement. 

Those days are over. To have full range of playing all the ships you own immediately, you need to spend somewhere in the vicinity of $300. And that’s just to get started with core sets and conversion kits. That doesn’t include the new $35 falcon or fang fighters (plural) for new cards.

if this was the only game, or even the only Star Wars game out there, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But there are so many other games that are as good or better than this one to buy. 2.0 was the right move in concept but the wrong move in execution. 

 

Edit: It’s worth mentioning that with minor tweaks, 1.0 can be played just like 2.0, and without the exorbitant expense of more cardboard. In casual kitchen table games, for example we’ve started allocating Force points to players at the start of the game that can be used for any ship during the game to sway the course of the battle. But once they’re gone, they’re gone.

Note the keyword: "all the ships you own, immediately". Combine all the money you paid to have all you small ships and come back to us ;)

 

BTW. the Fang Fighter does not have any new cards. Afterburners are in the core (although only one copy, for some reason), and the Falcon would fall into the "occasional $30-50 for a large ship every few months" category.

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1 hour ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Yeah that’s why. ?

Or, maybe, it’s about the fact that in order to continue playing in sanctioned events, you have to trade a significant amount of cash for cardboard. One of the greatest strengths of x-wing was that for about $100, anybody could play. After that, $10-15 for a small ship and the occasional $30-50 for a large ship every few months kept you going. Some of us bought more, but it wasn’t a requirement. 

Those days are over. To have full range of playing all the ships you own immediately, you need to spend somewhere in the vicinity of $300. And that’s just to get started with core sets and conversion kits. That doesn’t include the new $35 falcon or fang fighters (plural) for new cards.

if this was the only game, or even the only Star Wars game out there, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But there are so many other games that are as good or better than this one to buy. 2.0 was the right move in concept but the wrong move in execution. 

 

Edit: It’s worth mentioning that with minor tweaks, 1.0 can be played just like 2.0, and without the exorbitant expense of more cardboard. In casual kitchen table games, for example we’ve started allocating Force points to players at the start of the game that can be used for any ship during the game to sway the course of the battle. But once they’re gone, they’re gone.

Haha

 

I own every rebel ship, mostly 2 of each.  I own alot of imperial ships, as in 8 Interceptors, 10 tie fighters, 5 strikers, 3 punishers, 4 defenders, 5 first order tie fighters.... i could go on.... and on.... 

 

Editions change, and in most part for the better.  The cost of this change pails in comparison to the cost of my jump from 7th to 8th ed in 40k.  To raise the falcon in this is just dumb, if it was still first ed were they going to give it away?  They only charging for the new falcon because it's 2.0?

The best thing about 2.0 is tge app, they can adjust it on a regular basis with points and slots on ships.  It has an unlimted shelf life.  Fiest ed is dead, anyone staying with it will be left behind with no new rules or ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm moving up to 2.0.

I don't have a massive collection so 1 conversion kit works well.

If my gaming group didn't move up, we would all still play 1.0.

For the most part, you can import the new great rules of 2.0 into 1.0.

turret arcs, barrel rolls, force tokens, charge tokens, etc

these changes would improve 1.0 without the cost of 2.0

strictly casual play but it is what I would do if not buying 2.0

 

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53 minutes ago, Big k said:

Haha

 

I own every rebel ship, mostly 2 of each.  I own alot of imperial ships, as in 8 Interceptors, 10 tie fighters, 5 strikers, 3 punishers, 4 defenders, 5 first order tie fighters.... i could go on.... and on.... 

 

Editions change, and in most part for the better.  The cost of this change pails in comparison to the cost of my jump from 7th to 8th ed in 40k.  To raise the falcon in this is just dumb, if it was still first ed were they going to give it away?  They only charging for the new falcon because it's 2.0?

The best thing about 2.0 is tge app, they can adjust it on a regular basis with points and slots on ships.  It has an unlimted shelf life.  Fiest ed is dead, anyone staying with it will be left behind with no new rules or ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The “at least it’s not 40k” is the equivalent of the “but Hillary” rhetorical response in that discussion. If two people punch you in the face but only one is strong enough to break your teeth, does that make the weaker person any less of a bully?

 

I have a large fleet as well, 16 TIEs at last count including Rebels, but I didn’t drop a lump sum on that collection. And what I got with each purchase was a playable component for the game. My purchase of 1 of each product of 2.0 does not even provide a complete game with the ships that were converted.

Edited by Boris_the_Dwarf

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1 hour ago, Big k said:

The best thing about 2.0 is tge app, they can adjust it on a regular basis with points and slots on ships.  It has an unlimted shelf life.  Fiest ed is dead, anyone staying with it will be left behind with no new rules or ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just saw this part and have to say I disagree. The app isn’t the worst thing about 2.0, but it sure as **** isnt the best thing. The most frustrating part of 1.0 over the years was watching the pendulum swing of a new product from OP to boost market sales to total nerf to the point the ship was no longer playable. And now we have an app that validates that approach completely. It gives permission for the designers to be sloppy and reckless with design choices so that new shineys will always be the new hotness no matter what it does to the game. It doesn’t inspire confidence when your message to people is, “We are going to continue to screw up so now you have to use our software to make the product you bought less playable.” 

More than that, it’s no longer possible for me to determine by looking at my opponent’s cards if they are cheating, either intentionally or by mistake.

Lastly, 1.0 isn’t the first time we’ve had a closed game or a dead game with people still playing it. The best thing you said in this discussion is that there will be no more meddling from FFG, which now that you’ve put that thought in my head makes me glad I didn’t dump my 1.0 components.

Edited by Boris_the_Dwarf

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3 hours ago, Big k said:

I imagine because in 2.0 you actually have learn some tactics it's just a case of picking the strongest Rebel or Scum list and winning without skill.

 

The best thing about 2.0 is everyone is on a level playing field and it takes a little skillto win consistently 

I think both of these statements are false. In the 1e version of the game if you gave a so-so player a championship list and place him up against a very good player the so-so player would lose. To borrow a real world example, "Just because he has better tools doesn't make him a better carpenter". 

If you blame your losses on playing against "net lists" I think you're going to be disappointed with 2e. All the advantages a good player had in 1e he's going to bring forward with him. As in list building and how to fly his squad. That didn't change. The evil geniuses that came up with the squads that were to become the "net list" are still out there and soon their new builds will become the new net lists.

 

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1 hour ago, Big k said:

Haha

 

I own every rebel ship, mostly 2 of each.  I own alot of imperial ships, as in 8 Interceptors, 10 tie fighters, 5 strikers, 3 punishers, 4 defenders, 5 first order tie fighters.... i could go on.... and on.... 

 

Editions change, and in most part for the better.  The cost of this change pails in comparison to the cost of my jump from 7th to 8th ed in 40k.  To raise the falcon in this is just dumb, if it was still first ed were they going to give it away?  They only charging for the new falcon because it's 2.0?

The best thing about 2.0 is tge app, they can adjust it on a regular basis with points and slots on ships.  It has an unlimted shelf life.  Fiest ed is dead, anyone staying with it will be left behind with no new rules or ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why all the duplicates? The Ties I can understand with multiple core sets but 8 interceptors? Really? Were they bought for upgrade cards?

I was cautiously optimistic about 2e but that optimism is fading. Errata issued before the official roll-out, App problems from the beginning are just two instances of "oops". The community  has become playtesters and troubleshooters and we're being charged more for that privilege. What a bargain! With the app FFG can manipulate sales by "tweaking" point costs, slots and initiatives. Ostensibly that ability is there to balance the game but Lord Acton was spot on in his assessment of people and power.

In the scheme of things the cost to upgrade to 2e isn't that much and realistically not every ship in a collection needs upgraded now but the question arises on how long the conversion kits will be available? That unknown will force players to upgrade sooner than they may have wanted. Or players may decide to forego converting at all. Not everyone has deep pockets like you.

I'm curious to see how 2e shakes out after six months or so. It may be the greatest thing since sliced bread or fall under the heading of "seemed like a good idea at the time".

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I personally feel that the ability to actually use the vast majority of available ships makes the price of conversion tiny compared to the money I've lost buying ships that turned out to be utterly worthless on second Ed. But that's just my personal preference

Also, the idea that you need to spend hundreds of dollars is silly. You need to spend $90 for core + a kit to have access to more lists than you'll be able to play through after even untold months

Obviously, I wouldn't question anyone's decision to pursue or leave 2nd editition, but this idea that you NEED to convert these unreasonably massive collections all at once (or ever) has always struck me as incredibly silly 

 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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2 hours ago, Big k said:

Haha

 Fiest ed is dead, anyone staying with it will be left behind with no new rules or ships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it’s not “dead” it’ no longer supported, and honestly I already have every ship I need and 99% I want.  I don’t need to spend a fortune on cardboard for the chance to get the dregs of the EU not already available and the horrendous new lore designs.  It will stay well used in my collection for years as a great Star Wars game my friends and I get kids of enjoyment from.

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Honestly if 1.0 does what you want then just stick with 1.0.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as you're not looking for OP and you have enough people who want to get in that boat with you to get a game in.

The 2.0 conversion kits aren't a re-purchase of what you already have, they are exactly what they say the are: a way to convert your ships to the new game.  What you bought is 1.0 content.  If that doesn't have sufficient value for you (and the price is, IMHO, extremely reasonable for what they are) then don't buy them and keep playing 1.0.

I think most people going to 2.0 don't really care if some people are sticking with 1.0 and most people sticking with 1.0 don't really care if they're a minority, but you wouldn't know it from reading the forums ... 

(All my 1.0 cardboard is in a shoebox right now and I would happily give it away if someone local who could use it asked for it, FWIW.)

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, You Look Like A Nail said:

Honestly if 1.0 does what you want then just stick with 1.0.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as you're not looking for OP and you have enough people who want to get in that boat with you to get a game in.

The 2.0 conversion kits aren't a re-purchase of what you already have, they are exactly what they say the are: a way to convert your ships to the new game.  What you bought is 1.0 content.  If that doesn't have sufficient value for you (and the price is, IMHO, extremely reasonable for what they are) then don't buy them and keep playing 1.0.

I think most people going to 2.0 don't really care if some people are sticking with 1.0 and most people sticking with 1.0 don't really care if they're a minority, but you wouldn't know it from reading the forums ... 

(All my 1.0 cardboard is in a shoebox right now and I would happily give it away if someone local who could use it asked for it, FWIW.)

 

 

 

 

I totally get people complaining 1.0 is unbalanced and to be honest the net listing was the main reason I gave up on competitive, so I’m happy that 2.0 seems better balanced and more skill based.  Our group rarely plays for anything other than lore/narrative stuff which nullifies overpowered because rarely are the game-breaking synergies lore-consistent.

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40k may have a more direct upgrade cost. Rules and rulebooks, the more armies the more books. But one book covers the army (although they have played financial games with rules for older weapon configurations, and soup armies). All your models are then absolutely valid. Your "dead wood" is an old rulebook. ****, that original 40k Rogue Trader one is good, as it was more designed for Roleplay. I wish I still had it, but it was lost, with time. But all my books I have I keep on the shelf, to be mused over and mulled.

I'm not getting into 2.0 of this game. The amount of dead wood generated is unnacceptable, in combination with the packaging innefficiencies. I'd just chuck all my 1.0 cards, dials, templates, as redundent, to buy innefficient conversion kits that contain more dials and card for things, shipped round the world, that I don't have.

At some point you have to wake up to what you are doing. I play 1.0.

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18 hours ago, mfairhu1 said:

Hard not to have sympathy with those who have already invested a lot in 1.0 and don’t fancy the start-up costs of 2.0.

I’m still undecided and might well flog my 1.0 gear and get into something else altogether.

Not sure I can justify the price of converting to 2.0 just to play a few games every now and again with friends.

I very, VERY reluctantly converted to 2.0.  Not happy about it, not the least reason being I had to abandon all my ships outside Rebels (can't afford extra conversion kits, not to mention all my Resistance ships being so much wreckage now).  But since the only 1.0 players left in my group (and they are few enough) are the ones who are continuing to play Epic, I didn't have much choice if I wanted to salvage any part of my large 1.0 investment for standard games. 

Not to worry, though.  All we have to do, as we are smugly assured, is "play better", "learn some tactics", and stop running lists that "fly themselves".  At least until the NEW killer net-lists emerge.  And we all know they will.

 

Edited by Firebird TMK

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7 hours ago, Firebird TMK said:

I very, VERY reluctantly converted to 2.0.  Not happy about it, not the least reason being I had to abandon all my ships outside Rebels (can't afford extra conversion kits, not to mention all my Resistance ships being so much wreckage now).  But since the only 1.0 players left in my group (and they are few enough) are the ones who are continuing to play Epic, I didn't have much choice if I wanted to salvage any part of my large 1.0 investment for standard games. 

Not to worry, though.  All we have to do, as we are smugly assured, is "play better", "learn some tactics", and stop running lists that "fly themselves".  At least until the NEW killer net-lists emerge.  And we all know they will.

 

Just when I think I’m out then I‘ll read a bit more on 2.0 versions of the 1.0 ships I own and it pulls me back in!

I think for me though the situation is I’m providing all the ships for infrequent casual play with friends who like OT Star Wars.

I’ve own a few 1.0 Scum ships to keep things interesting and varied.

I’ve tried playing at local gaming nights, but my fleet was obsolete and the level of play too advanced.  Of course people were friendly and helpful, but I don’t think it’s what I’m looking for ultimately.  

The obvious answer is to ignore 2.0 and just leave things be, but if 2.0 streamlines the game somewhat it might make it more appealing to friends of mine.

Edited by mfairhu1

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On 9/16/2018 at 5:04 AM, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Edit: It’s worth mentioning that with minor tweaks, 1.0 can be played just like 2.0, and without the exorbitant expense of more cardboard. 

 

On 9/16/2018 at 5:44 AM, mfairhu1 said:

Not sure I can justify the price of converting to 2.0 just to play a few games every now and again with friends.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 8:00 AM, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

I just saw this part and have to say I disagree. The app isn’t the worst thing about 2.0, but it sure as **** isnt the best thing. The most frustrating part of 1.0 over the years was watching the pendulum swing of a new product from OP to boost market sales to total nerf to the point the ship was no longer playable. And now we have an app that validates that approach completely. It gives permission for the designers to be sloppy and reckless with design choices so that new shineys will always be the new hotness no matter what it does to the game. It doesn’t inspire confidence when your message to people is, “We are going to continue to screw up so now you have to use our software to make the product you bought less playable.” 

Lastly, 1.0 isn’t the first time we’ve had a closed game or a dead game with people still playing it. The best thing you said in this discussion is that there will be no more meddling from FFG, which now that you’ve put that thought in my head makes me glad I didn’t dump my 1.0 components.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 8:10 AM, Stoneface said:

If you blame your losses on playing against "net lists" I think you're going to be disappointed with 2e. All the advantages a good player had in 1e he's going to bring forward with him. As in list building and how to fly his squad. That didn't change. The evil geniuses that came up with the squads that were to become the "net list" are still out there and soon their new builds will become the new net lists.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 8:49 AM, Stoneface said:

I was cautiously optimistic about 2e but that optimism is fading. Errata issued before the official roll-out, App problems from the beginning are just two instances of "oops". The community  has become playtesters and troubleshooters and we're being charged more for that privilege. What a bargain! With the app FFG can manipulate sales by "tweaking" point costs, slots and initiatives. Ostensibly that ability is there to balance the game but Lord Acton was spot on in his assessment of people and power.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 11:17 AM, Bakura83 said:

 Our group rarely plays for anything other than lore/narrative stuff which nullifies overpowered because rarely are the game-breaking synergies lore-consistent.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 11:43 AM, Larky Bobble said:

The amount of dead wood generated is unnacceptable, in combination with the packaging innefficiencies. I'd just chuck all my 1.0 cards, dials, templates, as redundent, to buy innefficient conversion kits that contain more dials and card for things, shipped round the world, that I don't have.

At some point you have to wake up to what you are doing. I play 1.0.

 

11 hours ago, Firebird TMK said:

Not to worry, though.  All we have to do, as we are smugly assured, is "play better", "learn some tactics", and stop running lists that "fly themselves".  At least until the NEW killer net-lists emerge.  And we all know they will.

A running hit list of why I'm staying at 1.0.

Lastly, I have been waiting 5 years for XWM to evolve into something more than a "shoot to kill" sandbox match.  I see nothing on the horizon that is going to make this game different than what I already have.

*****

On 9/16/2018 at 6:46 AM, Big k said:

The best thing about 2.0 is tge app, they can adjust it on a regular basis with points and slots on ships. 

It has an unlimted shelf life. 

Fiest ed is dead, anyone staying with it will be left behind with no new rules or ships.

A.  Given what just happened with the app, I'm pretty sure the ongoing disaster of adding waves is going to be just as bad as card nerfs and erratas on text.

B.  No, it doesn't.  This game will eventually die, either from the loss of the license or poor sales.  Then (as is happening for people in 1.0), you will struggle to find the support needed online to help you play a game that is fragmented into cards and PDFs without the benefit of the app.  Because if they lose the license, they are probably going to be legally required to pull the app down.

C.  Wrong.  As everyone is so vigorous to say to any player who doesn't like the game as-is, DIY is a thing.  New 2.0 ships can be retconned into 1.0.  In the meantime, while you all are spending wads of cash to upgrade, the only thing I might need is Lando's Falcon.  Also, with 50+ 1.0 ships, I have a lot of space to play in before I run out of options.  I have yet to put a Quadjumper on the table, and I have rarely explored the Rebel faction at all.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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