Gift giving

[bsmith23 696]

What does "Rokugani" gift giving look and sound like? I understand the who 3 times thing, I just was wondering what the verbal exchange is like. Can anyone script something up, or share a video, etc? Thanks.

[Hida Jitenno 586]

Unicorn: "Here's a thing I brought for you."

Crab: "Gee, I think I already have one."

Unicorn: "Ah, but this one is different!"

Crab: "Well if it's so special, you should probably keep it."

Unicorn: "But I brought it for you."

Crab: "Oh, okay then. Thanks."

(From a game I was in... Does this count?)

[KveldUlfr 75]

8 minutes ago, bsmith23 said:

What does "Rokugani" gift giving look and sound like? I understand the who 3 times thing, I just was wondering what the verbal exchange is like. Can anyone script something up, or share a video, etc? Thanks.

A lot depends on the intent of the gift.

But, I suppose a basic interaction would be something similar to:

"Bayushi-san. I would present you with this fan, detailed with the story of your victory, painted upon it's leaves."

"I cannot accept such a gift. The work is too exquisite for hands such as these."

"Hands of mine painted it. I would have your hands bear it into court."

"Your hands? Such an honor you would do me. I am unworthy of such a gift. I must refuse."

"Bayushi-san, I would reserve the smile you cast for me for myself. And this fan will tell your stories even when you do not speak."

"It it too much, but I cannot say no to you. I will gladly accept your gift."

[Baraqiel42 12]

Like most things in eastern cultures, presentation is important. Each attempt to give the gift should be a bit more creative than the last, as should each refusal. At the same time, you probably don't want to seem desperate. You also want to be mindful of anyone of higher rank, you might not want to slight them publicly. Then again, maybe you do!

[ElSuave 273]

To add on the gift giving question. Does an NPC need to follow the "deny twice before accepting" rule if they are of higher status compared to the players? For example, in the beginner adventure does Toshimoko have to deny twice before receiving a gift from a pre-gempuku student?

[Hida Jitenno 586]

40 minutes ago, ElSuave said:

To add on the gift giving question. Does an NPC need to follow the "deny twice before accepting" rule if they are of higher status compared to the players? For example, in the beginner adventure does Toshimoko have to deny twice before receiving a gift from a pre-gempuku student?

I would say: absolutely. The gift-giving is traditionally done from a lower-status person to one of higher status.

Save for other instances when gifts are appropriate, such as a wedding. But if you're going somewhere to meet a person of higher status for the first time, you are expected to bring them a gift.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Hida Jitenno

[Albertorius 14]

On 9/15/2018 at 8:45 PM, ElSuave said:

To add on the gift giving question. Does an NPC need to follow the "deny twice before accepting" rule if they are of higher status compared to the players? For example, in the beginner adventure does Toshimoko have to deny twice before receiving a gift from a pre-gempuku student?

Well... it depends. Traditionally, in both japanese and chinese gift-giving, it's considered polite to refuse a gift at least once or twice before accepting, usually so that the receiver can appear ungreedy and so that the gifter shows their sincerity.

Then again, it is also customary for the receiver to feign surprise when being given a gift, and for the gifter to talk down their own gift (both from a monetary and effort spent on it perspective), and then, when the receiver finally accepts the gift, they customarily show recognition and appreciation of it.

But as I said, it is customary and polite, not mandatory... which usually means it will most heavily enforced when both the gifter and the receiver are of similar rank, and all bets are off when they are not. 

[Magnus Grendel 11,672]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:03 PM, Baraqiel42 said:

Like most things in eastern cultures, presentation is important. Each attempt to give the gift should be a bit more creative than the last, as should each refusal. At the same time, you probably don't want to seem desperate. You also want to be mindful of anyone of higher rank, you might not want to slight them publicly. Then again, maybe you do!

Definitely. If you just keep saying "go on, 'av it...." that's not really getting into the spirit of the thing; ideally it should be separate reasons why you can't accept it, none of which should be a slight on either (a) the object or (b) the giver.

Just now, Albertorius said:

But as I said, it is customary and polite, not mandatory... which usually means it will most heavily enforced when both the gifter and the receiver are of similar rank, and all bets are off when they are not. 

Indeed. Most customs of this sort are to control interaction between those who are (roughly) the same status.

[ExplodingJoe 131]

I have my players think more about the gift and what it says about their intentions, and I only run through the ceremony if I have a narrative intention. Usually the receiver will refuse with some flowery double-purpose words, and its up to my players to decide whether or not they understand the double meaning, or respond to it.

Otherwise I assume they went through the gifting ceremony, and adjust their host's opinion of them based on what they brought. The first time is cool to get people into the setting, but it gets tiresome the 4th and 5th time.

[Tonbo Karasu 2,606]

One of the interesting things int he beginner box is that it gives a specific order in which the great clans do things like give gifts.

As you say, what the gift is can be more important than how it is given, and be used to send a message as well.  Like a model riverboat being given by a magistrate to the head of the family involved in smuggling.

[bsmith23 696]

3 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

One of the interesting things int he beginner box is that it gives a specific order in which the great clans do things like give gifts.

 

Noticed that too. Its  ased on the order the Kami competed for the title of Emperor, I believe 

 

[Tonbo Karasu 2,606]

37 minutes ago, bsmith23 said:

Noticed that too. Its  ased on the order the Kami competed for the title of Emperor, I believe 

 

That was my hunch, too.

[Hida Jitenno 586]

14 hours ago, bsmith23 said:

Noticed that too. Its  ased on the order the Kami competed for the title of Emperor, I believe 

 

Crab -> Unicorn -> Scorpion -> Fire Chicken -> Blue Stork -> Lion -> Imperials?

Though, Togashi never competed. I don't have the BBox, but is that the order?

[ElSuave 273]

42 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Crab -> Unicorn -> Scorpion -> Fire Chicken -> Blue Stork -> Lion -> Imperials?

Though, Togashi never competed. I don't have the BBox, but is that the order?

Dragon -> Crab -> Unicorn -> Scorpion -> Phoenix -> Crane -> Lion

[Hida Jitenno 586]

Thanks!