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That's correct, but it's still broken, as 3 honor=15 fate somehow...

The Insolent rival kinda irks me because scorp now has the second best duelist in the game (second only to Raitsugu, and even then it's close), all before dragon got our second in clan duel. We're supposed to be one of the two dueling clans!

Bayushi's whispers also worries me for a number of reason.

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4 minutes ago, psychie said:

That's correct, but it's still broken, as 3 honor=15 fate somehow..

Yeah it's a strong card.  Being able to spend 5 fate, get 3 on your guy and then steal an honor back seems like it's going to be rather strong.  At least he lacks the courtier trait.

As someone who was a big fan of Scorpion Military (........ok yeah I mostly did it with shadowlands personalities) Ignoble Defenders reminds me of that.  I'm interested to see if there is a new style of deck that emerges from Scorpion because of this card.  Something less focused on courtier control and more straight up province destruction.  I'd love to drop in some Oni and Goblin along side this guy and just go for it

 

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I wonder what the timing is on your honor dial being higher?  I mean if I was higher at the start of the duel, does that go away once the duel starts until dials are revealed again?  I would guess it does go away, as it seems like a constant check.  I don't think this card is going to be used so much for the dishonor, but to just steal honor with the bid.  To avoid a 2 plus glory stat swing encourages an opponent to bid high.

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17 minutes ago, Tomello said:

I wonder what the timing is on your honor dial being higher?  I mean if I was higher at the start of the duel, does that go away once the duel starts until dials are revealed again?  I would guess it does go away, as it seems like a constant check.  I don't think this card is going to be used so much for the dishonor, but to just steal honor with the bid.  To avoid a 2 plus glory stat swing encourages an opponent to bid high.

As its a constant passive trait it should be checking constantly, meaning when you go to compare your skill totals at the end of the duel you would look at your respective dials and his stats would reflect the current dial states.

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15 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

Only one word comes to mind after viewing these few cards: Broken. 

Come on LB you can do better than that.  :P

I took one look at Bayushi's Whisperers and thought

"Informer, yaknowmewantintodateKachiko.....................and licky boom boom down"

And then I saw the Ignoble Enforcers and was like

"Get your monkey, off my back"

And then my daughter saw the Insolent Rival and she said

"It's not nice to point"

 

Come on, now you try.  :D

 

 

 

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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2 hours ago, Duciris said:

Rather than enhancing existing strategies, however, Clan Packs open up new ways to play a clan and provide new deckbuilding options for all players. 

For sure almost no Scorion player will play with the new Stronghold in competitive matches and FFG seems to be unaware of that.  These cards are really good, thinking on the new Stronghold, but in combination with the Core Sets's Stronghold are totally broken.  Most of the times, for the "Ignoble Defenders", your opponent will be paying 1 of those 3 Honor used and, in the long run, maybe all 3...

Edited by Oficinaman

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5 hours ago, Oficinaman said:

For sure almost no Scorion player will play with the new Stronghold in competitive matches and FFG seems to be unaware of that.  These cards are really good, thinking on the new Stronghold, but in combination with the Core Sets's Stronghold are totally broken.  Most of the times, for the "Ignoble Defenders", your opponent will be paying 1 of those 3 Honor used and, in the long run, maybe all 3...

That calculation kind of assumes that you wouldn't have gotten your stronghold online some other way.

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I agree. Playing at 6 honor with the old stronghold is risky. Specially when paired with cards requiring you to have a higher bid (i assume the rival was thought to combo with I can swim). It wont be possible to pay the 3 honor for the 6 coster all of the time. And many abilities will be hard to play. I dont think its broken, and I think a bushi shinobi deck with the new stronghold can be very competitive and an alternate way to play the clan. Also, I think ffg is aware of thw strenght of axorpion, just as they were of unicorns weakness, and thsi clan pack can be an opportunity to give scorpion more options (and hence more variety of gameplay when playing against them) until the other clan packs come out to rebalance the clans

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I am not impressed by any of these.

Whisperers and Enforcer are too expensive for a Dynasty characters in Scorpion with their statlines and traits. Especially since Enforcer doesn't do anything once he's on the field.

Rival needs to loose you a least 1 honor on the duel in order to become 4 skill and then the only thing you get out of winning is an effect that could have just as easily happened through Court Games or Way of the Scorpion.

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Theyre only too expensive for dynasty if scorpion wants to keep fate for conflict characters and expensive events.  I think these are meant for a different kind of deck, not necesarolly to be added to the. Urrent type of de k. And even the the guys that let you lose honor for fate somewhat mitigate it. 

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9 hours ago, Bayushi Shunsuke said:

More broken than the 5- and 6-coster that Phoenix got out of their Clan Pack?

More broken? No.

Equally broken? Yes.

(I’m putting it bluntly, hence, my handle) ?

Phoenix Dynasty characters, the Phoenix and Tadaka, are the new entry into the realm of overpowered and under-costed characters. The Phoenix with its ability (I’ve been on the receiving end of a Charged Phoenix, with another Phoenix in the discard pile, not fun), and Tadaka with its crazy ability (I’m positive I don’t have to give you any examples here)..... We can now add the Enforcers and the Whisperers (no attachments!) onto the very same list with the mentioned Phoenix characters. 

In the short term, any player can easily dismiss the effectiveness of these characters, but in the long term these characters are just an additional weapon in the arsenal of Scorpion players who will scoff at their effectiveness (as they have with cards such as I can Swim, Kachiko, AFwTD, Maze, Yogo Kikyo, etc), but will cleverly find a way to include a more devastating set of cards into their Dynasty deck in addition to their Conflict deck which remains top tier. 

 

Edited by LordBlunt

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1 hour ago, LordBlunt said:

The Phoenix with its ability (I’ve been on the receiving end of a Charged Phoenix, with another Phoenix in the discard pile, not fun)

You cannot use Fushichō’s ability to bring back another Fushichō.

Also, Tadaka is a fair and balanced card ?

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10 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

You cannot use Fushichō’s ability to bring back another Fushichō.

Really? Then the player misused it. I gave him the benefit of any doubt that I had, I guess. 

#PhoenixPlayersCheat 

?

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50 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

Really? Then the player misused it. I gave him the benefit of any doubt that I had, I guess. 

#PhoenixPlayersCheat 

?

Yeah, it’s a unique, and the ability is an interruption, so you cannot bring the same unique. 

#TotallyAScorpionPlayerPosingAsAPhoenix.

Edited by Tabris2k

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I was pretty sure I was going to be playing Kyuden Bayushi at Worlds anyway (because Aramoro), but this really helps solidify it. Love that these cards are meh for existing decks and instead promote a new deck archetype (one that, if it wants to run heavy-hitters like the Whisperers, actually has a choice to make about what RL card it plays). Yes, it almost certainly isn't going to be as overtly powerful as 'classic' Scorpion is, but it provides variety and options, which is a good thing. Stoked.

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Other than some notable exceptions like Duty and Bayushi Aramaro, here's hoping that the cards will be a lateral move for the Scorpions than a vertical one. Some of Scorpion players are rolling their eyes at the cards, undervaluing them. Let's let actions speak before word on either side. Remember when AFWTD and Kachiko were supposedly horrible cards? Try asking a Scorpion to cut both of those cards now. 

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20 hours ago, Oficinaman said:

For sure almost no Scorion player will play with the new Stronghold in competitive matches and FFG seems to be unaware of that.  

Err... no?

As best as I can tell, the new box becomes the "dishonor box" and the core box becomes the "military box".

This is hilarious to me because I am pretty sure that this is the exact opposite of what FFG had in mind.

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17 minutes ago, Tomello said:

I don't know, being at 6 or less honor is not a safe place.

And they will now have a card that will let them ‘come back to life!’ with a single Honor, if they fall to 0 Honor..... Which, by the way FFG, will work “doubly better” with the existing Scorp SH.  (who woulda thunk that?) ??‍♀️

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35 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

Err... no?

As best as I can tell, the new box becomes the "dishonor box" and the core box becomes the "military box".

I believe you got that wrong.... but it’s Scorpion, so anything may work handily. ?

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