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Pedro Lunaris

What's Next?

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So, I'm thinking about next releases...

 

1) A box expanding Wizards and Orders. Is it possible it would involve other types of magic?

2) A box expanding Priests, Faith and Religion. Would it bring Knights as well? More on Witch Hunters?

3) A box about the whole of the Empire, Halflings and such. Are we going to have specific rules for humans of each region of the Empire?

4) A box about antagonists, specilly Chaos. I'm missing mutation mechanics.. Are they going to add them to the game mechanics? It was such an important part...

5) Boxes of other regions... Which would be the first?

 

That would make me very glad indeed. To have boxes that would at the same time bring quality information, and not being with too specific themes. I'm eager to see more advanced careers, the rest of the Orders and things like that. I would like to see expansions on Witch Hunters, as I liked to think that were some that weren't insane (I could as easily use another career and call the character a Witch Hunter just for the title).

 

What I wouldn't like to see is too specific boxes. Like, a box about Middenland... another about Wissenland and so on... Even if each one costed 5 dolars.

 

What do you think?

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I'm hoping we see a Bestiary next. A larger box set with monsters to lead us up into the higher levels, which would set the groundwork for further adventures. I know I'm already getting tired of populating adventures with generic Orcs, Beastmen, and Undead, and having to fabricate everything else.

 

I'd also like to see some more progression-type boxes, advanced careers and the like. Magic and Divine boxes would be nice, but I'd rather see a general mid-range advancement box with classes to carry us up to at least 5th or 6th rank.

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A bestiary is one of the things I want the most for sure.  A set of nothing but creatures, and lot of new standees for npcs/creatures will be great.

Other than that, character options.  Please no more campaigns, adventure sets, or stupid tool sets.  We got a perfectly fine tool base to use, we now need more game meat.

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I agree with Panzer regarding toolsets and adventures. We need game meat, and lots of it, before they do any more adventures.

 

Thanks to Sunatet for that link; I've heard plenty of people talk about the riddle PDF, but nobody ever put a link up. First time I've been able to take a look at it.

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keltheos said:

Yeah, I remember seeing that. I'd rather just have someone tell me what's coming. ;) 

I tell You what's coming:

an Addon gran_risa.gif (big letter intended)

 

But seriosly, I bet that till now at least few guys from FFG read our complains/demands.

Some Easter present FFG?

Only not easter egg please lengua.gif

Chockolate bunny may be... I mean chockolate bunny of end of times, the bringer of destruction, that will make all chockolate wane in comparison with its pure chockolate awsomeness gran_risa.gif.

And again NO, no chockolate greater unclean one (you never know what kind of chockolate he is made of... yuck)

...

Ok, time to cut down on wine... KAGOR you beast!! (a very good, sweet moldavian wine)

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Based on my knowledge for "Shifting Shadows" and Malleus Maleficarum this year we should see:

- a big compendium od Magic (not only the Empire mages will be included but also Chaos, Beastman and Orc magic)

- a supplement like a Beastiary or Chaos expansion (it's not clear yet)

- after the Gathering Storm this year we will see a new adventure. What's it gona be nobody knows. A little sneak pick will be on Mallueus Maleficarum.

For the rest we must wait tillthe officail announces.

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Two things:

 

1.  Player stuff:  advanced careers, careers, EXPANDED TRAPPINGS (i.e. something to buy..or at least all that crap that PLAYERS want)

2.  Scenarios

 

FYI:  Talislanta is going FREE.  They're releasing ALL OF THEIR OLD SUPPLEMENTS FOR FREE DOWNLOAD.  Then they're releasing a brand new game.  Should this be done with WFRP?  Then we could say "screw the 3rd release of the same old background muck and get on with the new stuff."  Thoughts?

 

jh

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thanks for the link, Sunatet!

 

A small group, my shadow said,
but they alone would stand against the storm.
Then the conversation devolved into a series
of increasingly weak puns on “weathering the
storm.”

 

that would be The Gathering Storm.

 

The second shadow told me even more
assistance is coming, more tools and resources
to help me manage my affairs, to help me
organise my thoughts, and ultimately allow
me to prepare for what is coming in the
year ahead. A trove of wisdom, the shadow
promised, and more.

 

that would be The GM's Toolkit.

 

ok, that's all too obvious.

 

for the third shadow, it sure is something magical. perhaps they are bringing elves to magic. this is the part:

 

Suddenly the colors twisted and surrounded
me in a vortex of light. I could hear laughter,
distant and faint.

 

and talking about the Fallen Northern Gate as well, bringing Chaos magic and influence. could we get mutations on this one?

 

the last is surely about Chaos and its influence. yes, it could be a book about the Old World antagonists. that would be awesome. and I also think they are bringing some big adventure with it.

 

what I pray for is that all of them are good and complete works, bringing sufficient expansion about each subject that we don't need to expect yet another release on the same subject. that was the greatest thing about the second edition supplements...

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IMO the game needs some MORE and newer playgrounds, not only the empire or northern parts of the old world. Atm we have only a TINY part of the world to settle our ideas and adventures but the world is big, so why not expanding it beyond the current borders?

It needs an additional and new perspective to avoid repetition.

Its needs for example an Arabia box or/and Southern Nations (estalia, tilea) Box or/and Ulthuan Box. With adventures included of course :)

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superklaus said:

IMO the game needs some MORE and newer playgrounds, not only the empire or northern parts of the old world. Atm we have only a TINY part of the world to settle our ideas and adventures but the world is big, so why not expanding it beyond the current borders?

It needs an additional and new perspective to avoid repetition.

Its needs for example an Arabia box or/and Southern Nations (estalia, tilea) Box or/and Ulthuan Box. With adventures included of course :)

Based on what came in the boxed game, I'm expecting FFG to put out a province book for each province in the Empire. That would make it a VERY long time before they got around to other Human, Dwarven and Elven countries.

I was really disappointed when I opened my boxed set and flipped through the books only to find a small map of 1 province of the Empire....and it's not even my favorite one (which is Middenheim.)

Being given a small slice of the pie for Locations, Races, Priest and Wizard Classes was just plain disappointing. It felt to me like the game was incomplete.

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LeBlanc13 said:

 

superklaus said:

 

IMO the game needs some MORE and newer playgrounds, not only the empire or northern parts of the old world. Atm we have only a TINY part of the world to settle our ideas and adventures but the world is big, so why not expanding it beyond the current borders?

It needs an additional and new perspective to avoid repetition.

Its needs for example an Arabia box or/and Southern Nations (estalia, tilea) Box or/and Ulthuan Box. With adventures included of course :)

 

 

Based on what came in the boxed game, I'm expecting FFG to put out a province book for each province in the Empire. That would make it a VERY long time before they got around to other Human, Dwarven and Elven countries.

I was really disappointed when I opened my boxed set and flipped through the books only to find a small map of 1 province of the Empire....and it's not even my favorite one (which is Middenheim.)

Being given a small slice of the pie for Locations, Races, Priest and Wizard Classes was just plain disappointing. It felt to me like the game was incomplete.

 

 

 

yes its quite incomplete. and its boring to just play again the same stuff and type of adventures in the same tiny part of the old world since decades. Possibly warhammer is not the right setting to play fantasy roleplaying games, I dont know. When I look at Paizo and look how many different types of adventures and settings these guys produce in a top quality, I can just laugh at Warhammer 3rd edition!

We have now nearly 6 months after appearance of 3rd edition and exactly WHAT do we got from FFG? One incomplete and controversial but expensive box set (where you can play only 2 types of elves, a dwarf from a certain city and a reiklander, woot...), one extra dice set and one little gamemaster tool box. Wft? FFG thats all?

Yes the production quality of the little material FFG released is very good, but Paizo has the SAME production quality and releases the background books and adventures 5times that fast. Thats because of Paizo is a REAL rpg-company while FFG is just a boardgame company which is just dabbling a little bit around in the rpg genre.

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I think FFG went TOO far with the board game aspects and because of that they have the products for WFRP 3e releasing on a board game schedule. It takes a lot of time to organize getting cards, dice and other game components into a box and shipped. I'm not sure they can maintain a quarterly release, never mind monthly.

Sticking with one product format (such as a book with graphs and tables) and using existing products (already established dicing conventions) would have allowed them to put out more product like Paizo and Wizards of the Coast on a speedier timeline. Of course, that also assumes FFG is putting the same level of manpower into their games.

Doing things the way they did with WFRP 3e, they've really slowed down their production process to ensure all of the pieces are ready to go at the same time. I'm sure certain pieces of product are done before others and they just end up waiting for other pieces to get done before the whole is ready.

Gamers need the next big thing (generally). If FFG takes too long to get out enough product to satisfy those needs, the gaming community will move on and this game won't maintain the little steam it has going right now.

In anticipation of those that would argue that this is not a board game.... The only thing missing is the board. Other than that, it's got Dice, Standees, Chits and cards. Also, the main boxed game supports from 2 - 4 players. How many RPGs out there market 1 box for multiple players. Normally, everyone needs to get their own set to play. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this isn't an RPG. It is also, absolutely an RPG, just like Descent: Road to Legend is. Maybe even a bit more so since the rule books are beefier and give more guidance on the roleplay aspect. But, to those that are still in denial about the board game aspects, take another look at what comes in the box.

The more I look at this game, the more I notice that it's standing on the shoulders of Descent and it's campaign systems.

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What ever is next can by guarenteeded to contain 1) A (thin?) Book, 2) cards, 3) Stand ups, and 4) More  cards....as well as a) Some tokens, and b) maybe a map...

 

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Parzival said:

 

What ever is next can by guarenteeded to contain 1) A (thin?) Book, 2) cards, 3) Stand ups, and 4) More  cards....as well as a) Some tokens, and b) maybe a map...

 

 

 

Don't forget the boxes of inconsistent size and material quality that don't line up on bookshelves and look cohesively all part of the same game. gui%C3%B1o.gif

Interestingly, has anyone noticed how FFG is using the D&D 3rd Edition product coloring system? Stuff for all players/GMs is Brown and GM products are blue? I wonder if the monster books will come in the same color as the 3rd Edition products as well. Wasn't that red?

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I agree with you that the core box leaves things in a kinda unfinished feel. the focus on Reikland, very few advanced careers (really, their trait is intermediate, so we are probably going to see three levels of career, basic, intermediate and advanced), the availability to play with just three magical orders and three religious order ...

 

the thing that gets me most on my nerves (and what I most connect with the board game style - and board game limitations) is the limit of the number of players. that is the greatest downside of having all this cards and implements on the game: you need a certain amount of them to be able to fit another player comfortably. that upsets me very, very much. it gets worse when you don't see a specific expansion that lets you invite, say, 2 other friends, as I can understand that including cards for 5 or more players on the core box would leave things too expansive and financially impossible.

 

the other aspects of WFRP3e as a board game don't upset me very much, lke FFG taking longer to release new material. I kinda like the feeling of carefully created new expansions, and we don't having the compulsive necessity to buy something new every month. of course, what we miss is suficient material to run a complex campaing, with the inclusion of other races, locations, careers and progressions...

 

really, guyes, it took me a long time to get in my head to buy 3ed. I love the 2ed and I had my two feet standing behind when thinking about a new version of my beloved game full of cards and different dices that you had to buy and slots and recharges and everything. I play RPG for a long time and it was always about the story to me. I'm very disappointed with the way RPG is going as a whole with D&D for the last few years, for instance, which, to me, takes our game play closer to a videogame than a roleplaying experience. I think the greatest problem is the system requiring more attention than the story; we get the mechanics influencing the narration to the point it grabs it entirely. I had the feeling FFG was going this way too, and was very afraid about it. thus, I just got WFRP3e and Adventure's Toolkit last week.

 

and it did surprised me A LOT. and that because, to me, the mechanics didn't took hold of the narration, but it went the other way around: the narration took hold of the mechanics! I tryed a lot of different RPG systems, and I really think one that brings the greatest revolution to the feeling and method of RPG is The Window, from Methods in the Madness. I really support their RPG manifest. so I always went searching for a good, fun and simple system that didn't get in the way, and possibly suported my stories. what I think is the bold and even revolutionary step Warahmmer 3 ed has taken is to integrate the mechanics to the storytelling.

 

all of that being said, I'm still going to ve VERY disappointed if LeBlanc 13 got the right of it and what we are going to see is one box per Empire's province. that would be way beyound lame.

 

but if we are going to see expansion boxes that really brings new and complete things to us, I don't mind wainting a couple of months for every release. if the next Magical Box, for instance, really brings rules for every Magical Order, with advanced careers, expansion or options to the rules and Orders already noi the corebox other types of magic, like the Elves, Dwarf's runesmiths, Greenskins and something of Chaos Magic... well, that would leave me very, very happy. even if it's the most expensive expansion they release so far.

 

I tink the world of Warhammer brings enough ground for boxes without count. so FFG doesn't really need to break things to make more releases. We could have the ones I pointed at the first post on this topic, and also have one for each region surrounding the Empire, one for Ulthuan, one for Lustria (and with the 3ed we see Lustria much more present then the 2ed), Araby, the East, the Skaven, the Undead, a complete box for everything about the Dwarfs, the Elfs and a lot of adventures... possibly going further with the great scenario changes (as the Storm of Chaos)... and that's a lot I'm probably missing...

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FFG is a great company that produces great products.  I've enjoyed almost all of the games I have played from them and there repeat playability is a welcomed alternative to some games.  I played 4e for about 1.5 sessions before chucking it out the window. 

Sure Wizards can pump out sourcebooks as fast as the eye can blink, but I think you're missing the point that they are supported by Hasbro, a multi-billion dollar international company.  Also, look at the quality of many of those books.  I remember those terrible splats for 3e.  Books that only have a handful of useful information (feats) before being totally useless.  The DM guide for both 3 and 4 both were pretty much useless except the magic items at the back, most of which, you'll only dish out a handful of the extensive list.  So sure, they can pump out books fast, but that does not mean the quality of those products are worth it.  

Now, I totally agree we need more player careers etc to enhance the game, I totally agree.  The extensive list of gear...I don't know about as well.  The playable races have been covered pretty well.  A Dwarf Soldier is a Dwarf Soldier.  A Dwarf Merchant is a Dwarf Merchant.  The basic careers cover most, arch-types.  Sure, we do need knight and squire (as that is a major part of the genre) and sure there are tons of fantasy miniatures that have not had their "career" brought across.  However, compared to 2nd edition, we have already had way more of the world explored in this edition.  Before there was Dwarf Troll Slayer, Elf Envoy, and some Elf hunter class.  That was it...period.  The rest were humans for all walks of life.  We have Dwarven Sagas, War Dancers, Sword Masters, Iron Breakers, Troll Slayers, Envoy, Wardancers, etc.  It actually includes a difference between High Elf and Wood Elf whereas High Elves before were completely unplayable and ignored.  

As to the comments you can play fantasy better in x genre, can you really?  Is Warhammer (or any other fantasy game) really any different than DND which gives you a more limited set of classes and about the same number of races.  You can also take all these rules, templates, etc. create your own world around them just as you could with DND and be able to explore it in the exact same way DND does.  So the comment this is not suitable for fantasy is a bit harsh, don't you think? 

If you actually want to play in the world of Warhammer it already has a ton of literature about the entire world already explained (enough that you people seem to be well versed in the other options and are complaining they don't exist yet - you want to play in Middenheim, play in middenheim).  You want to play a Merchant struggling in the Border Princes zone, look at the Border Princes info, write up a game, and generate a human merchant and bam, you're in the Border States.  You want Bretonnian Knights...download the second edition manual, convert the gifts of the lady, write up a knight class, and you're ready to go.  Sure you can argue "well, 2nd already has that," but remember 2nd had a 5 year run and it takes time...but if you want to use it in 3rd, take an hour away from the TV or other distractions and hobbies, due the work and you're done.   

Sure Halflings aren't included here, but if you look at Warhammer tabletop, Halflings really aren't included there and they never made it to the online game.  My guess is GW is done with the halflings so FFG has to be as well, otherwise you bet your ass they'd be included or will be in the future.  

I agree stuff like White Lions and Knights of the Blazing Sun are not there yet, but do you really need them to play?  It takes about fifteen minutes to create your own career and Hurlanc has done a very nice job creating a pseudo-template that makes it even easier.  So just write it up and run with it.  This is not a board game or a miniatures game, it is a roleplaying game where home-brews and house rules are very, very realistic.  The day of all of this being official will come, but the thing just started for pitty's sake.   

Another point about the schedule, we don't know how fast we are going to get these four suppliments.  Originally the release schedule seemed to be every two months (Gathering Storm in March, GM Toolkit in May).  However, due to a fluke we got the GM toolkit early.  Now, Gathering Storm is at their warehouse and will be shipping soon.  So if they did it every two months, with four box sets starting in January, then the release schedule covers through August.  I'm sure we'll get something else from them before Spring the following year.  So bashing their release schedule, seems to me, at this point, utterly pointless since, after all, they seem to be about 1 month behind Wizards.  Just be patient, relax, and enjoy gaming.   

We also saw a preview of evil magic cards earlier.  The magic box set is the area the game needs the most tweaking and it's incoming.  I'm sure they understand their career problem and I would hope we will see one by the end of the year, but who knows.  For now, the box-set works great and is a blast to play, so why complain.  If you need more careers, make them up or let players repeat careers (it's what we're doing and since all the careers have the same format, it does not even come close to breaking the system or under-powering other characters).  If you need more equipment, make it up.  

What do you really need?  Jay Little's interpretation of Altdorf before you can jump into Altdorf?  Half of it you won't agree with and you'll tweak around the setting.  All of gaming is a series of "toolkits" just dressed up as rules, so I don't understand what the big deal is, unless you play strict, 100% by the book.  Of course if you play dnd you do, but dnd is all about "by the book" which has created this demand for "by the book" and "official" and all this other BS that seems to me to confuse the point of role-playing. 

As to the OP, the magic box set is next, and we'll probably see that around June.  August should bring the beast box, around Gencon time I imagine.  Then, hopefully, something to expand on the otherwise flacid career system (I would like to see Noble, Squire, and Knight personally at the very least) and round out all the career types.  

 

 

    

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Pedro Lunaris said:

I agree with you that the core box leaves things in a kinda unfinished feel. the focus on Reikland, very few advanced careers (really, their trait is intermediate, so we are probably going to see three levels of career, basic, intermediate and advanced), the availability to play with just three magical orders and three religious order ...

 

the thing that gets me most on my nerves (and what I most connect with the board game style - and board game limitations) is the limit of the number of players. that is the greatest downside of having all this cards and implements on the game: you need a certain amount of them to be able to fit another player comfortably. that upsets me very, very much. it gets worse when you don't see a specific expansion that lets you invite, say, 2 other friends, as I can understand that including cards for 5 or more players on the core box would leave things too expansive and financially impossible.

 

the other aspects of WFRP3e as a board game don't upset me very much, lke FFG taking longer to release new material. I kinda like the feeling of carefully created new expansions, and we don't having the compulsive necessity to buy something new every month. of course, what we miss is suficient material to run a complex campaing, with the inclusion of other races, locations, careers and progressions...

 

really, guyes, it took me a long time to get in my head to buy 3ed. I love the 2ed and I had my two feet standing behind when thinking about a new version of my beloved game full of cards and different dices that you had to buy and slots and recharges and everything. I play RPG for a long time and it was always about the story to me. I'm very disappointed with the way RPG is going as a whole with D&D for the last few years, for instance, which, to me, takes our game play closer to a videogame than a roleplaying experience. I think the greatest problem is the system requiring more attention than the story; we get the mechanics influencing the narration to the point it grabs it entirely. I had the feeling FFG was going this way too, and was very afraid about it. thus, I just got WFRP3e and Adventure's Toolkit last week.

 

and it did surprised me A LOT. and that because, to me, the mechanics didn't took hold of the narration, but it went the other way around: the narration took hold of the mechanics! I tryed a lot of different RPG systems, and I really think one that brings the greatest revolution to the feeling and method of RPG is The Window, from Methods in the Madness. I really support their RPG manifest. so I always went searching for a good, fun and simple system that didn't get in the way, and possibly suported my stories. what I think is the bold and even revolutionary step Warahmmer 3 ed has taken is to integrate the mechanics to the storytelling.

 

all of that being said, I'm still going to ve VERY disappointed if LeBlanc 13 got the right of it and what we are going to see is one box per Empire's province. that would be way beyound lame.

 

but if we are going to see expansion boxes that really brings new and complete things to us, I don't mind wainting a couple of months for every release. if the next Magical Box, for instance, really brings rules for every Magical Order, with advanced careers, expansion or options to the rules and Orders already noi the corebox other types of magic, like the Elves, Dwarf's runesmiths, Greenskins and something of Chaos Magic... well, that would leave me very, very happy. even if it's the most expensive expansion they release so far.

 

I tink the world of Warhammer brings enough ground for boxes without count. so FFG doesn't really need to break things to make more releases. We could have the ones I pointed at the first post on this topic, and also have one for each region surrounding the Empire, one for Ulthuan, one for Lustria (and with the 3ed we see Lustria much more present then the 2ed), Araby, the East, the Skaven, the Undead, a complete box for everything about the Dwarfs, the Elfs and a lot of adventures... possibly going further with the great scenario changes (as the Storm of Chaos)... and that's a lot I'm probably missing...

I agree with you completely...after 5 months of play I have found more and more ways this system not only supports the narrative (and how to use all those fancy tools) to do that with, but I have also found it has expanded my group's role-play as well (we have always been very narrative focused).  I feel sorry for the people who just tossed the tracking tokens and trackers, I don't think they fully get what they are designed to do.  The only thing that didn't sit right with me was card recharge and the dependency on action cards.  So we eliminated the card recharge mechanic with a total of two hours of tweaking with some label sheets and card sleeves.  Oh well, I will sacrifice that small amount of time to make a great experience from an otherwise fantastic game. 

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Pedro Lunaris said:

 

 all of that being said, I'm still going to ve VERY disappointed if LeBlanc 13 got the right of it and what we are going to see is one box per Empire's province. that would be way beyound lame
 

 

 

 

Honestly, it would not surprise me in the least. Given that the previous two "Expansions" feel more then a little bit like filler. That is "Stuff that could have/should have" been in the core set + some tokens and card board doodads...I  kinda suspect there is some "testing of the waters" so to speak (Lets see just how many pieces can we split this game in to"....).

And it's not that I dislike the game. But Well, lets just say that The Gathering Storm is gonna be the "make or break point" for our group-If it's a Great campaign set, we are all in. If it turns out to be "meh" we are out...

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Parzival said:

Honestly, it would not surprise me in the least. Given that the previous two "Expansions" feel more then a little bit like filler. That is "Stuff that could have/should have" been in the core set + some tokens and card board doodads...I  kinda suspect there is some "testing of the waters" so to speak (Lets see just how many pieces can we split this game in to"....).

And it's not that I dislike the game. But Well, lets just say that The Gathering Storm is gonna be the "make or break point" for our group-If it's a Great campaign set, we are all in. If it turns out to be "meh" we are out...

I'm waiting to see what The Gathering Storm brings to the table as well. If it gives some meat to the setting, I may give this a go. If I get another product that is fairly over priced and doesn't offer me much, I'm trading the game system away to someone that will use it....  I can always use more Warmachine minis.

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LeBlanc13 said:

 

I'm waiting to see what The Gathering Storm brings to the table as well. If it gives some meat to the setting, I may give this a go. If I get another product that is fairly over priced and doesn't offer me much, I'm trading the game system away to someone that will use it....  I can always use more Warmachine minis.

 

You won't have to wait much longer. www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp

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