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Roller of blanks

Norra and Horton vs. Dutch and Wedge

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Wedge Antilles (52)
Elusive (3)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
"Chopper" (Astromech) (2)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

"Dutch" Vander (42)
Expert Handling (*)
Ion Cannon Turret (6)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R5 Astromech (5)

Arvel Crynyd (36)
Intimidation (3)

Lieutenant Blount (30)
Marksmanship (1)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Vs.

Norra Wexley (Y-Wing) (43)
Expert Handling (*)
Ion Cannon Turret (6)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)

Horton Salm (38)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R5 Astromech (5)

Arvel Crynyd (36)
Intimidation (3)

Ten Numb (50)
Debris Gambit (2)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Which one is better and how should I fly/change it?

Norra-Horton-Arvel-Ten seems more aggressive and heavy-hitting, but Arvel seems fragile if be uses his action to boost in, or the stress from a linked boost will make it harder to do it again next turn. Of course, ion cannon helps with that, but not with keeping him alive. I think ten is solid, with an evade and a stress token for decent mods. I think Horton is fine, with his ability letting him keep his lock and have double mods next turn, but he will probably struggle to stay alive under sustained fire.

Wedge-Dutch-Arvel-Blout seems fun, but again, Arvel and blout seem like glass cannons, and I might have to hope they target Dutch, and let R5 keep him in the fight. Wedge, though, is a powerhouse, throwing double modded, -2 agilty, 4-dice Proton torpedoes when the whole squad works like it's supposed to.

So which one is better? How should I fly/change them? Or are they both trash?

Thank you!

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My mans Blanks is cooking up some squads?

lets peep this out:

For the sake of convenience we will address the wedge list as 1 and the Norra list as 2.

list one has some interesting things going for it, regen wedge coupled with two perfectly decent filler ships and an ordnance support. However, I feel that it almost immediately breaks down from that point. Elusive regen wedge is really your only end game ship here and even then he is exceedingly... meh. The torpedo doesn’t fit particularly well with chopper and even though he can leverage his I6 to use it, but that point is moot thanks to Dutch, or rather, it seems to work agains Dutch as he most likely can’t lock before he moves if he needs to leverage his I6 for the torpedo. Basically I’m suggesting that he isn’t your greatest platform for the torpedo, especially when it doesn’t significantly help chopper. In terms of regen, you have better options too than chopper, disengaging is super viable and much better than action/charge consumption is most cases and not necessarily more expensive when we add in the missile.

dutch has repair, ion turret and torpedoes, but I feel that a bombing Norra is much better for both survivability and damage as she can blue move with r4 to reload and bomb each turn while being tough to actually take down. 

More or less, list 1 has a mediocre at best end game ship, with inbuilt redundancy for target locks (occasionally good for double mods) and a poor regen. His support from Dutch is limited to mediocre control and a torpedo and while the A and Z-95 are good fillers, they don’t really want to fly straight at the enemy so much as ordnance does, especially if there’s a loose formation for the -2 agility, double mod combo. Basically each ship loses some of its value in formation but that can be mitigated with flying. 

My main gripe here is wasted/redundant points and potential that could be better spent for both raw efficiency and control.

 

list 2:

similar to before, it’s an end game(-ish) ship in Norra and a support along with two filler style ships. We have a similar double torpedo salvo but again not much else. Horton isn’t really leveraging his ability with only torps and Norra is better as a bomber at close quarters though she isn’t completely terrible here. 

Our fillers are decent and cheap, Ten is interesting and a nice filler/main but doesn’t synergies to well in that he is a slow-ish jousting craft with no one else who really wants to joust apart from the oddly placed torps.

it has most of the same issues as list one.

 

all that being said, despite my harsh critiques, neither list is terrible. They just need some refining and to be less janky/redundant while better leveraging what makes each ship good.

without introducing too much new stuff, here would be my addendum.

Norra Wexley (Y-Wing) — Y-Wing 43
Dorsal Turret 4
R4 Astromech 2
Proton Bombs 5
Ship Total: 54
   
Ten Numb — B-Wing 50
Debris Gambit 2
Ship Total: 52
   
Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 52
R2 Astromech 6
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 58
   
Airen Cracken — Z-95 Headhunter 36
Ship Total: 36
 

 

Norra can get close and bomb forever while also having a turret for strafing in order to get close and to use before she needs to reload.

cracken is cracken, the cheapest 3 die attack rebels have, a great filler.

wedge is cheap and somewhat expendable, the list won’t fall apart without him and he can hit and run with regen after the initial engagement.

ten does Ten things and self stresses.

 

Again, it’s only how I would use the pieces you offered, these ships don’t suit my play style but I hope that at the very least a raw efficiency boost and a cool use of norra are some food for thought. Best of luck, may your dice always roll natties.

 

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I'm really not a fan of the Chopper/Elusive regen strategy people are postulating, especially on X-Wings.

I know it's technically more flexible (you can use Elusive as intended until you take damage), but it's the same cost as R5 for action based regen and takes two slots instead of one. Yes, it's unlimited and yes you're regenning shield instead of hull and yes if you really, really want to you can burn a shield to get another torp shot but the red maneuver requirement and point cost hurt it. And for only one point more, you can take just R2 who doesn't cost you an action. It's way easier to just close s-foils , hit a high speed maneuver and boost away to regen without a shot than it is to regen with an action and try and make an unmodded shot work. 

In general, I think regen is a trap on Wedge. He's a heavy hitter, and the X-Wing is still fairly fragile. Any points invested in Wedge that aren't helping him deal damage feel wasteful to me, while any points dedicated to keeping him alive only delay the inevitable by a small amount. 

Predator, Crack Shot, Trick Shot and maybe Lone Wolf should be your go to talents on Wedge, and R3 your go to astro IMO. 

 

Torps are totally wrong on Horton. Ordnance no longer requiring you to spend your target lock to shoot means re-rolls on torps are a wasted investment. You already need the target lock, just spend it for your re-rolls. Horton is absolutely a turret Y-Wing. I do like the idea of running him with Arvel and Norra, but I can't decide how to build Norra for that list. I feel like it wants to be either ICT or APTs, but not both. 

I've always like Horton, and I really want him to be good. But sadly I don't think 2e is giving him is day any more than 1e did, even with the talent slot. He just doesn't have the tools to properly leverage his ability given his points cost. If his ability worked on himself, I think he'd be way more viable. If there was a turret that gave him any sort of damage advantage over his primary, he'd be way more viable. I feel like Horton wants to be treated a bit like 1e Kavil - he needs something like a revamped autoblaster turret. Or a range 3 only turret. 

 

I really like the changes and combined list @Quadjumper King suggested. Though, if it were me, I'd drop R2 on Wedge down to Crack Shot/Trick Shot (depending on whether you'd prefer to fly him at range 1 or 3) and R3 astro, then either use the points to either upgrade to ICT on Norra, or to drop R4 on her and run Intimidation Arvel instead of Cracken. 

With those four pilots on the board, all the ships present a danger and force some decisions. For example, Arvel is a terrible closer but if you leave him to last, he gets to leverage his ability a bunch to help out everybody else and take his own reduced agility, 3 dice pot shots against ships that can't shoot him back anyway. Wedge is set up to do damage. He's flimsy, but he no longer represents a significant portion of your list. And the more time you spend chasing him, the less damage you're doing to the much beefier B-Wing and Y-Wing. Ignore him to start working on the high health ships and he'll outflank and hurt you. 

Keep Ten at range 3 while evading as much as you possibly can initially and pray for eye rolls. Then when the furball starts and rocks start to break things up, get him in there and abuse those 1 t-rolls to basically just rotate on the spot. 

8 hours ago, Quadjumper King said:

cracken is cracken, the cheapest 3 die attack rebels have, a great filler.

Cracken is a 2 dice attack, no?

Were you thinking of Blount? 

Edited by GuacCousteau

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6 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

I'm really not a fan of the Chopper/Elusive regen strategy people are postulating, especially on X-Wings.

I know it's technically more flexible (you can use Elusive as intended until you take damage), but it's the same cost as R5 for action based regen and takes two slots instead of one. Yes, it's unlimited and yes you're regenning shield instead of hull and yes if you really, really want to you can burn a shield to get another torp shot but the red maneuver requirement and point cost hurt it. And for only one point more, you can take just R2 who doesn't cost you an action. It's way easier to just close s-foils , hit a high speed maneuver and boost away to regen without a shot than it is to regen with an action and try and make an unmodded shot work. 

In general, I think regen is a trap on Wedge. He's a heavy hitter, and the X-Wing is still fairly fragile. Any points invested in Wedge that aren't helping him deal damage feel wasteful to me, while any points dedicated to keeping him alive only delay the inevitable by a small amount. 

Predator, Crack Shot, Trick Shot and maybe Lone Wolf should be your go to talents on Wedge, and R3 your go to astro IMO. 

 

Torps are totally wrong on Horton. Ordnance no longer requiring you to spend your target lock to shoot means re-rolls on torps are a wasted investment. You already need the target lock, just spend it for your re-rolls. Horton is absolutely a turret Y-Wing. I do like the idea of running him with Arvel and Norra, but I can't decide how to build Norra for that list. I feel like it wants to be either ICT or APTs, but not both. 

I've always like Horton, and I really want him to be good. But sadly I don't think 2e is giving him is day any more than 1e did, even with the talent slot. He just doesn't have the tools to properly leverage his ability given his points cost. If his ability worked on himself, I think he'd be way more viable. If there was a turret that gave him any sort of damage advantage over his primary, he'd be way more viable. I feel like Horton wants to be treated a bit like 1e Kavil - he needs something like a revamped autoblaster turret. Or a range 3 only turret. 

 

I really like the changes and combined list @Quadjumper King suggested. Though, if it were me, I'd drop R2 on Wedge down to Crack Shot/Trick Shot (depending on whether you'd prefer to fly him at range 1 or 3) and R3 astro, then either use the points to either upgrade to ICT on Norra, or to drop R4 on her and run Intimidation Arvel instead of Cracken. 

With those four pilots on the board, all the ships present a danger and force some decisions. For example, Arvel is a terrible closer but if you leave him to last, he gets to leverage his ability a bunch to help out everybody else and take his own reduced agility, 3 dice pot shots against ships that can't shoot him back anyway. Wedge is set up to do damage. He's flimsy, but he no longer represents a significant portion of your list. And the more time you spend chasing him, the less damage you're doing to the much beefier B-Wing and Y-Wing. Ignore him to start working on the high health ships and he'll outflank and hurt you. 

Keep Ten at range 3 while evading as much as you possibly can initially and pray for eye rolls. Then when the furball starts and rocks start to break things up, get him in there and abuse those 1 t-rolls to basically just rotate on the spot. 

Cracken is a 2 dice attack, no?

Were you thinking of Blount? 

You are absolutely right, I forgot other Z-95s opposed to Blount and the generic existed there for a second, in my mind I saw Blount even though the YASB 2 link was there. Not a big fan of his action economy though, the red action doesn’t seem all that useful but it is a method to get double mods on torps.

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38 minutes ago, knute said:

What's with Debris Gambit on Ten? Seems like he wants to focus into barrel roll pretty much every turn so he can have full mods on attack and defense. 

That's not always possible. 

Sometimes a post maneuver barrel roll would only take them out of arc, rather than put them in it. 

Also, you're still not getting full mods there without target lock anyway. 

Debris Gambit is better, but only slightly, than a defensive focus and gives you a single action way to trigger stress on Ten. For only 2 points, it's worth taking even if you won't be using it every single turn. 

2 hours ago, Quadjumper King said:

Not a big fan of his action economy though, the red action doesn’t seem all that useful but it is a method to get double mods on torps.

Yeah, it depends on the list. There are times when Airen is invaluable or adding an extra action, especially with the timing being during the engagement phase. Some beneficiaries don't care that the action is red, and R4 X-Wings are definitely such examples. 

But in general, I'd much sooner take Intimidation Arvel for a very similar level of points 

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Funny enough, my current go-to squad is Arvel (exactly as you have him), Ten (DebGam and AdSen), Horton (ExHan, VetTurGun, ICT) and Jake (Predator)

So many options for double mods, lots of shots, tough target priority, really very maneuverable, etc etc. The 5 point bid helps against things like Inferno Squad.

My beef with Norra in her Y-Wing is how hard it is to get her good mods

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