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Overwhelming Oppression what am I missing?

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I've been running this deck in an extended Lothal campaign (all optional side missions).  I went with Personal Flagship and chose Weiss as my villain.  He hasn't hit the table yet but I added Limitless Arsenal as quickly as possible to use Weiss's Epic Arsenal attack pool.  I thought it to be a pretty sneaky move.  So once a round one of my figure's can use whatever combination of dice required (no more than 2 of one colour of course).  Usually for a big hit (RRY) but sometimes using a blue for range.  Best success has been using Limitless Arsenal with eJets.  Get Weiss's Epic Arsenal and add a blue when within 2 spaces.  Indomitable Force pulls 2 tokens from cards in your hand to figures already on the table.  That helps with telegraphing your deployments to the Rebels a little bit.  I built my agenda deck to augment the class deck as much as possible.  I have Classified Technique to ready a class card.  Looking forward to unleashing Limitless Arsenal twice in one round.  Also have Armored Division and A Dark Power in the deck in the hopes of actually dropping Weiss on the table for cheap.  I think the Rebels are convinced he's just there for show.

Been enjoying it so far.  It's a tough balance, always want the new deck to be amazing but it can't be too amazing or it's broken. 

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23 minutes ago, MFL said:

I've been running this deck in an extended Lothal campaign (all optional side missions).  I went with Personal Flagship and chose Weiss as my villain.  He hasn't hit the table yet but I added Limitless Arsenal as quickly as possible to use Weiss's Epic Arsenal attack pool.  I thought it to be a pretty sneaky move.  So once a round one of my figure's can use whatever combination of dice required (no more than 2 of one colour of course).  Usually for a big hit (RRY) but sometimes using a blue for range.  Best success has been using Limitless Arsenal with eJets.  Get Weiss's Epic Arsenal and add a blue when within 2 spaces.  Indomitable Force pulls 2 tokens from cards in your hand to figures already on the table.  That helps with telegraphing your deployments to the Rebels a little bit.  I built my agenda deck to augment the class deck as much as possible.  I have Classified Technique to ready a class card.  Looking forward to unleashing Limitless Arsenal twice in one round.  Also have Armored Division and A Dark Power in the deck in the hopes of actually dropping Weiss on the table for cheap.  I think the Rebels are convinced he's just there for show.

Been enjoying it so far.  It's a tough balance, always want the new deck to be amazing but it can't be too amazing or it's broken. 

That's just mean! :P

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1 hour ago, MFL said:

I've been running this deck in an extended Lothal campaign (all optional side missions).  I went with Personal Flagship and chose Weiss as my villain.  He hasn't hit the table yet but I added Limitless Arsenal as quickly as possible to use Weiss's Epic Arsenal attack pool.  I thought it to be a pretty sneaky move.  So once a round one of my figure's can use whatever combination of dice required (no more than 2 of one colour of course).  Usually for a big hit (RRY) but sometimes using a blue for range.  Best success has been using Limitless Arsenal with eJets.  Get Weiss's Epic Arsenal and add a blue when within 2 spaces.  Indomitable Force pulls 2 tokens from cards in your hand to figures already on the table.  That helps with telegraphing your deployments to the Rebels a little bit.  I built my agenda deck to augment the class deck as much as possible.  I have Classified Technique to ready a class card.  Looking forward to unleashing Limitless Arsenal twice in one round.  Also have Armored Division and A Dark Power in the deck in the hopes of actually dropping Weiss on the table for cheap.  I think the Rebels are convinced he's just there for show.

Been enjoying it so far.  It's a tough balance, always want the new deck to be amazing but it can't be too amazing or it's broken. 

Does Epic Arsenal actually count as a valid dice pool for the purposes of limitless arsenal?

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1 hour ago, neosmagus said:

Does Epic Arsenal actually count as a valid dice pool for the purposes of limitless arsenal?

Hmm. RAW I'd say not (there's nothing in the RRG about an attack dice of type [?], it's only on the card - and the Class card only gives you the attack pool, not the Deployment card's abilities).  One would have to be a pretty litigious rules lawyer to disallow it though, IMO...

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7 hours ago, Bitterman said:

Hmm. RAW I'd say not (there's nothing in the RRG about an attack dice of type [?], it's only on the card - and the Class card only gives you the attack pool, not the Deployment card's abilities).  One would have to be a pretty litigious rules lawyer to disallow it though, IMO...

It would change things a lot. If you don't allow it, the Imperial Player will only  be able to use a limited amount of attack pools based on what they keeps in their hand. Firstly they'd have to make sure they have a nice mix of deployment cards, and secondly they'd have to keep cards back in their hand. But if you do allow it, they can just stick in Weis, who's guaranteed with Personal Flagship, to use any combination of dice they want to. Unless FFG says otherwise, I wouldn't allow it.

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True, and  I see your point. A pool of any three dice isn't that much better than red/red/blue from an AT-ST though, which the Imperial player could easily take instead... it's fairly rare that you'd need two blue dice in there for range, or might want red/red/yellow for the chance of some surges (and don't need range at all). Yeah, a free choice of dice is better, but not that much better that it would break the game. Still, RAW is on your side, AFAICT.

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11 hours ago, neosmagus said:

Does Epic Arsenal actually count as a valid dice pool for the purposes of limitless arsenal?

It counts for Verena (the controller of Weiss / IG-88 decides her Close Quarters pool), even when the figure no longer on the map. Usually abilities are not available when the deployment card is not in play, but in this case another ability asks for the attack pool, and Epic Arsenal/Arsenal are needed to determine that. (Edit: Although "when an adjacent hostile figure is defeated to interrupt" is more vague in its timing than "after an adjacent...".)

Rules said:
  • When "Close Quarters" is used in relation to a figure without a specific dice pool, such as a figure with "Arsenal" or "Epic Arsenal," the dice pool is determined by that figure's controlling player by the same method as if the figure were attacking. For example, if this occurred in relation to a figure with "Arsenal," the player controlling the targeted figure determines which two dice Verena will use during "Close Quarters."
Edited by a1bert

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5 hours ago, Bitterman said:

True, and  I see your point. A pool of any three dice isn't that much better than red/red/blue from an AT-ST though, which the Imperial player could easily take instead... it's fairly rare that you'd need two blue dice in there for range, or might want red/red/yellow for the chance of some surges (and don't need range at all). Yeah, a free choice of dice is better, but not that much better that it would break the game. Still, RAW is on your side, AFAICT.

Not to mention, you could always just throw in an E-WEB with the actual chance of even deploying it later if you wanted.

 

Not that RBY is better than ??? obviously, but circumstantially you could argue for a lot of combinations.

 

Edited by subtrendy2

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15 hours ago, Bitterman said:

Hmm. RAW I'd say not (there's nothing in the RRG about an attack dice of type [?], it's only on the card - and the Class card only gives you the attack pool, not the Deployment card's abilities).  One would have to be a pretty litigious rules lawyer to disallow it though, IMO...

The class card refers you to a deployment card of choice in your hand (with a valid token).  So you're saying that since Weiss's attack pool can only be determined by a card ability that it is invalid?  I guess I regarded Epic Arsenal (and Arsenal if IG-88 was the deployment card in question) as definitions of the attack pool but technically they are abilities as they are written text on the deployment card so I see your point.  It does require a 1xp class card to work as well as leaving a villain in hand so I don't think it's tilted too much.

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On 9/12/2018 at 12:43 PM, FrogTrigger said:

Has anyone actually tried it yet that is critiquing the deck? I played the first 4 missions of Lothal already and the deck is actually a lot of fun.

Our Imperial player tried it for the first mission of Twin Shadows last night and was so turned off by it that he requested if he could switch class decks. 

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I played Duel on Devaron (?) with Implacable and Commence Landing plus a Rancor and Loth-cats. The Rebels had Davith with saber, but even with Pierce 3, it was impossible for them to get the big boy off the board. Loth-cats and the class deck provided a ton of blocks and evades.

As soon as his health slipped, I just used feed on the nearby loth-cats to buff him back up. And with a cheap deploy cost the Loth-cats were back to providing extra blocks on the next turn. 

They spent too much time trying to kill him rather than rushing the objective. 

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I ultimately got steamrolled using this class deck.  No wins for the Empire in the extended Lothal mini-campaign.  Some balancing issues may have worked against me.  The Rebels seemed to be awash in credits with the optional side mission rewards and therefore fully kitted out.  Also, up against a formidable Rebel squad of Gideon, Verena, CT, and Tress.  Gideon Command CT to attack, Verena use Close Quarters after the kill, that attack kills so another Close Quarters, then CT uses Barrage and Pin Them Down, then Masterstroke....and so on.  Then I get to activate absolutely nothing because everyone was murdered.  The class gives out tokens primarily but not much use when all figures are cleared out.  At best I could muster one heavy attack per round with Limitless Arsenal.  Had the minimum amount of influence due to my lack of winning so not a lot of agenda deck shenanigans available to swing momentum my way.

The class deck offered some variety in play so it was a fresh experience.  Playing open-handed wasn't my favourite aspect as I do enjoy a surprise deployment during the missions.  I think I built the deck the way I wanted it (Personal Flagship -> Limitless Arsenal -> TIE Fighter Patrol -> Indomitable Force -> Redouble Our Efforts) so don't see revisiting this one to try a different build.  My General Weiss/Limitless Arsenal play (whether or not technically legal) was very satisfying and makes the strongest option for this class.

Bottom line is I checked it off my list of classes played but probably won't play it again any time soon.

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18 minutes ago, MFL said:

I ultimately got steamrolled using this class deck.  No wins for the Empire in the extended Lothal mini-campaign.  Some balancing issues may have worked against me.  The Rebels seemed to be awash in credits with the optional side mission rewards and therefore fully kitted out.  Also, up against a formidable Rebel squad of Gideon, Verena, CT, and Tress.  Gideon Command CT to attack, Verena use Close Quarters after the kill, that attack kills so another Close Quarters, then CT uses Barrage and Pin Them Down, then Masterstroke....and so on.  Then I get to activate absolutely nothing because everyone was murdered.  The class gives out tokens primarily but not much use when all figures are cleared out.  At best I could muster one heavy attack per round with Limitless Arsenal.  Had the minimum amount of influence due to my lack of winning so not a lot of agenda deck shenanigans available to swing momentum my way.

The class deck offered some variety in play so it was a fresh experience.  Playing open-handed wasn't my favourite aspect as I do enjoy a surprise deployment during the missions.  I think I built the deck the way I wanted it (Personal Flagship -> Limitless Arsenal -> TIE Fighter Patrol -> Indomitable Force -> Redouble Our Efforts) so don't see revisiting this one to try a different build.  My General Weiss/Limitless Arsenal play (whether or not technically legal) was very satisfying and makes the strongest option for this class.

Bottom line is I checked it off my list of classes played but probably won't play it again any time soon.

As I suspected at first sight this class is garbage

Edited by Golan Trevize

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On 10/11/2018 at 5:46 PM, MFL said:

I ultimately got steamrolled using this class deck.  No wins for the Empire in the extended Lothal mini-campaign.  Some balancing issues may have worked against me.  The Rebels seemed to be awash in credits with the optional side mission rewards and therefore fully kitted out.  Also, up against a formidable Rebel squad of Gideon, Verena, CT, and Tress.  Gideon Command CT to attack, Verena use Close Quarters after the kill, that attack kills so another Close Quarters, then CT uses Barrage and Pin Them Down, then Masterstroke....and so on.  Then I get to activate absolutely nothing because everyone was murdered.  The class gives out tokens primarily but not much use when all figures are cleared out.  At best I could muster one heavy attack per round with Limitless Arsenal.  Had the minimum amount of influence due to my lack of winning so not a lot of agenda deck shenanigans available to swing momentum my way.

The class deck offered some variety in play so it was a fresh experience.  Playing open-handed wasn't my favourite aspect as I do enjoy a surprise deployment during the missions.  I think I built the deck the way I wanted it (Personal Flagship -> Limitless Arsenal -> TIE Fighter Patrol -> Indomitable Force -> Redouble Our Efforts) so don't see revisiting this one to try a different build.  My General Weiss/Limitless Arsenal play (whether or not technically legal) was very satisfying and makes the strongest option for this class.

Bottom line is I checked it off my list of classes played but probably won't play it again any time soon.

i feel you! I played against the same rebel team setup and I got utterly destroyed. Last mission is still due but I have an idea how this will go.

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